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baustin
United States18 Posts
On January 25 2013 14:57 asdf3455 wrote: Seriously TL should do something about this. As I said before he is snake oil salesman and what he does to new or struggling players is basically indistinguishable from trolling. What? | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
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Ticcie
Netherlands43 Posts
On January 25 2013 14:57 asdf3455 wrote: Seriously TL should do something about this. As I said before he is snake oil salesman and what he does to new or struggling players is basically indistinguishable from trolling. Yes, providing a comfortable layout with most frequently used keys under your finger home location is trolling. You are more of a troll to be honest, you got me to respond, well done. Great layout! I took about a years break from SC2, coming back I pretty much needed to retrain muscle memory anyway. Currently 10 games in or so, my speed is improving, the biggest problem for me is losing the proper location of my fingers on the keyboard. I am trying to force myself to move my fingers back to their home keys after each press to get used to it. If that doesn't work I am probably going to have to add some texture to the keys one way or the other. Playing on a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 (split in the middle), not experiencing any problems. | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
On January 25 2013 14:57 ROOTT1 wrote: im so lost -.- i cant find my hotkey layout in the doc file(PLS) and the spreadsheet is really confusing o_o https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdFQ4LVlIcllUUWtGUVY4cWxyLXd6QUE#gid=21 The spreadsheet isn't that complicated once you understand the terms. PLMM means "protoss left-handed medium sized with mouse buttons", ZRL means "zerg right-handed large sized without mouse buttons," etc. I think medium is the most often used size, but I could be wrong. The mouse buttons are your personal preference depending on whether you want to use the fourth and fifth mouse buttons as control groups. Each race is color coded so you can distinguish them in the document. The column titled "unit commands" gives names of commands for each race, and to the left the hotkeys for each command are listed. The column titled "control groups" gives the names of global hotkeys, and hotkeys are listed to the left. If there are blank spaces under the with-mouse setups, that means the hotkeys are the same as the same race, size, and hand without-mouse layout. The hotkeys listed for races other than the race the setup is designed for are similar to the hotkeys used for the main race. This makes off-racing less difficult, but each setup is optimized for a particular race, so if you want to play a particular race competitively you should use the setup specifically designed for that race. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I know this is nit picky but I feel like you've analyzed everything so precisely that you'd want details like this. I'm willing to bet you already have a good reason for having it the way it is though, and I'd love to hear it . The upgrades are as consistent as we can make them (so all the carapace upgrades are the same key) and the attack upgrades are as "same" as possible. This is also true when you offrace with a layout, to make offracing as easy as possible. It is more likely to see melee attack upgrades than ranged attack upgrades, so its given the key with higher priority. We have based nothing on the location in the command card because once you learn your hotkeys, their location in the command card doesn't matter. What does matter is that the thing you do most often is pressed with the closest, fastest to press key. Thanks for the question  One question, though. What should I do with my creep queen(s) hotkey? I have hotkeyed them to "/" (close to L, making it a habbit to creep right after every inject), but that seems to be recommended for Vipers which I agree with. Should I just dedicate one of the harass hotkeys or should I just not use hotkeys for creep queens? Personally, I don't use a hotkey for creep queens. There are a lot of different methods of spreading creep. (mini-map and click, hotkey queens, hotkey tumors, location keys) If you want to go with the queen hotkey, I would use the lowest priority CG (bottom of the list on the data document) Great layout! I took about a years break from SC2, coming back I pretty much needed to retrain muscle memory anyway. Currently 10 games in or so, my speed is improving, the biggest problem for me is losing the proper location of my fingers on the keyboard. I am trying to force myself to move my fingers back to their home keys after each press to get used to it. If that doesn't work I am probably going to have to add some texture to the keys one way or the other. I use textured keys and it helped a lot. If you have the means, I definitely suggest it. And don't worry about asdf, he's the unofficial troll for TheCore, dedicated to downvoting and negative commenting everything related to TheCore. It means we're doing a good job :D On January 25 2013 14:57 ROOTT1 wrote: im so lost -.- i cant find my hotkey layout in the doc file(PLS) and the spreadsheet is really confusing o_o https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdFQ4LVlIcllUUWtGUVY4cWxyLXd6QUE#gid=21 I've already responded to TT1 via PM, but for everyone else's benefit: In the data document the medium sizes only are shown. The small and large layouts follow a consistent pattern, they are exactly the same in relation to their homekeys. So the keys for the small layout are 1 key closer to the Shift and Control keys horizontally. So, if you are using PLS and see the key best for the nexus control group is W in PLM, then the key best for the nexus control group is Q in PLS, and E in PLL. Also, the spreadsheet has been described as confusing by a lot of people. Does anyone have a suggestion to make it less confusing? | ||
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Morsk
United States16 Posts
On January 25 2013 21:31 JaKaTaK wrote: Also, the spreadsheet has been described as confusing by a lot of people. Does anyone have a suggestion to make it less confusing? Instead of the 4 columns of hotkeys for PRM, PRMM, (etc.), just show one. Have it generated from data instead of manually entered. Ideally then it could support all 12 layouts not just 4. I'm not saying it's easy to do; I don't really know. But I think all the columns contributes to making the document look overwhelming at first glance, and this would address that. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Hancho
Germany89 Posts
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tili
United States1332 Posts
(I mean I'm going to try this ) | ||
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Morsk
United States16 Posts
Now this has the obvious problem of getting out of sync with changes, plus I had to do it manually instead of the sheet offering to do it. Someone more experienced with Google Docs than me might be able to say what the best way of achieving it is, and if it isn't more trouble than it's worth. I know you can pull data from one sheet to another. + Show Spoiler + For example, just put this in a cell, in any sheet anywhere, and it'll pull 2 columns out of The Core's sheet: =importrange("0AtFSjIb2ibJTdFQ4LVlIcllUUWtGUVY4cWxyLXd6QUE", "D2:E999") | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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enanoretozon
Panama57 Posts
On January 18 2013 11:44 JaKaTaK wrote: @enanoretozon Each Layout is Optimized for the particular set of variables that comes with the layout. I don't know how to explain to you via text how this works, and why it is the way it is, but I'll try to record a video in the near future to help people understand why this is the case. Unfortunately, doing so will require me to explain the entire development process of TheCore which will take some time. Thank you for your patience in the meantime. You're trying to tell me the process is so complicated you need a video to explain? Honestly it sounds like you're just ignoring the points I posted. What I'm also gathering from your replies is that the layouts are algorithmically generated and you would rather not deviate from that even if it doesn't make sense. This part really worries me. If it's an issue of me not being able to convey my points, some sort of language barrier, I don't know, just say so. Hell I even made pictures to explain something that I believe was pretty clear on text. I'd have thought that would warrant a better answer than "it's too complicated to explain". | ||
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sanddbox_sc2
United States173 Posts
On January 25 2013 08:02 Ishmak wrote: I respectfully disagree. It is my opinion that this almost could not be further from the truth. Inefficiencies towards the start of the game have incredible impact on the rest of the game because of the 'snow-ball' effect that they have. I meant inefficiencies in your layout, not your build. Meaning, if your key to make a spawning pool was really difficult or something, it wouldn't be an issue because there's very little else going on. I wasn't referring to screwing up your build - and, in fact, my point was that having 'make drone' on the 'select larva' key actually increasing the chance of making a mistake, which is a trade-off I accept because it makes macro a lot easier. The "snow-ball" effect is, to put it bluntly, only believed by people that have really bad math skills. Yes, the potential resources lost increases, but the "time" it sets you back stays the same. JDub did a great job of explaining it, so I won't go into that any further. On January 25 2013 14:49 fengshaun wrote: Is there a rationale behind having the following setup for upgrades for zerg? Evo chamber J -> ground carapace I -> ground missile attack Spire J -> air missile attack I -> air carapace If there is, I'm not aware of it/don't buy it. I'm pretty sure it's just a mistake; I myself switched the keys to match each other. Remember, folks, never be afraid to change your hotkeys if it makes sense. | ||
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baustin
United States18 Posts
My assumption: Ground carapace is more likely to be researched than ground missle attack. Air missle attack is more likely to be researched than air carapace. Edit: screwed up the quoting cuz I'm not very smart. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On January 26 2013 04:54 enanoretozon wrote: You're trying to tell me the process is so complicated you need a video to explain? Honestly it sounds like you're just ignoring the points I posted. What I'm also gathering from your replies is that the layouts are algorithmically generated and you would rather not deviate from that even if it doesn't make sense. This part really worries me. If it's an issue of me not being able to convey my points, some sort of language barrier, I don't know, just say so. Hell I even made pictures to explain something that I believe was pretty clear on text. I'd have thought that would warrant a better answer than "it's too complicated to explain". I'm sorry if you interpret this as dismissive, but it is that complicated. I'm not saying that it is too complicated to explain, and I am not ignoring your points. I am just saying that writing out the explanation would take a very long time, and I'm unable to spare that time right now. It is not that I don't want to deviate from the algorithmically generated layouts. To answer your question completely and accurately I literally have to sumarize the development process of TheCore from day 1. I know it seems weird, but it is very much true, and will be easier to understand once I have the time to explain. On January 26 2013 02:28 opisska wrote: Is there some introduction in writing to this? Meaning, is it possible to obtain ifnormation about how is it supposed to work without having to watch the videos? Apart of the actual layout and the spreadsheets with data, I have found nothing. I will be rewriting the OP in the near future. I appreciate your patience for the time being. On January 25 2013 14:49 fengshaun wrote: Is there a rationale behind having the following setup for upgrades for zerg? Evo chamber J -> ground carapace I -> ground missile attack Spire J -> air missile attack I -> air carapace I was expecting J to be the carapace upgrade in both Evo and Spire and I be missile attack in both too! It's a bit counter-intuitive to swap the two "types" of upgrades, I think! That is definitely a mistake, sorry. The carapace and attack upgrades should be the same, I will take a look at the files now. Thanks for the heads up :D | ||
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fengshaun
149 Posts
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TonkaBean
Lithuania7 Posts
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vrumFondel
Russian Federation42 Posts
И кстати та комбинация о которой ты говоришь сделана там как заглушка и не более того её не надо использовать. All that i wright above is for TonkaBean he would understand. | ||
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Morsk
United States16 Posts
I gave up on it too though, so I'm not saying it works for everyone. If you hate using your pinky on anything except huge keys like Shift or Tab, I can't help you; I had the same problem and never got over it. (I might give it another try in a month or two.) But if it's just uncomfortable, that might be bad keyboard position. | ||
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sanddbox_sc2
United States173 Posts
On January 27 2013 02:45 TonkaBean wrote: Don't understand anything also that spreadsheet is too complicated i dont understand anything and those hotkeys as protoss are just so uncomfortable. How the hell am i supposed to press shift + ctrl + alt with my left thumb. I can't even find information on what keys i should bind what. Not going to use it, sorry. Why do you need to press shift, control and alt? | ||
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