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On May 02 2012 05:58 TotoroHren wrote:
I can say that this is totaly bullscheisse. Dude this is so stupid lol. Trust me all of you this wont work well don't even try. I am top master player so dont rage plz.
That's some of the best constructive feedback I've ever read.
/s
In all honesty, the layout looks fine, but if you're going to make the claim that it's "the most efficient layout possible", then you're implicitly saying it's more efficient than Darkgrid. I love Darkgrid, and it has improved my mechanics tremendously. It seems like the OP appeals more to users of Standard, but can you edit it or post here so I can have reasons why a Darkgrid user would consider your layout more efficient?
edit: Nevermind, I see some of the notes on this layout vs Darkgrid. It's a huge post, so I missed it on my initial scan. I'm just not convinced that the minor things you've pointed out are worth changing over...
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On May 02 2012 06:13 Xhiga wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:05 Toastie wrote:
You have C/V for Unit/Building abilities.
But for example, Raven, OC, Ghost, Infestor, and probably some more, have 3 abilities. How do we use those?
What about Burrow? I like to ahve different hotkeys for burrow + unburrow.
And how do you construct buildings?
Kind regards It's S-W-Q I believe
yup yup yup :D thanks Xhiga
SWQ for spells AZX2 for attack, hold position, patrol, and stop C is build basic, V is build advanced.
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On May 02 2012 06:14 NeutraLiTe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:58 TotoroHren wrote:
I can say that this is totaly bullscheisse. Dude this is so stupid lol. Trust me all of you this wont work well don't even try. I am top master player so dont rage plz. That's some of the best constructive feedback I've ever read. /s In all honesty, the layout looks fine, but if you're going to make the claim that it's "the most efficient layout possible", then you're implicitly saying it's more efficient than Darkgrid. I love Darkgrid, and it has improved my mechanics tremendously. It seems like the OP appeals more to users of Standard, but can you edit it or post here so I can have reasons why a Darkgrid user would consider your layout more efficient?
I absolutely believe that this setup is more efficient than Darkgrid. The biggest difference between Darkgrid and Chameleon is that he uses mouse buttons and I do not. You're not the first to ask for a comparison between the two. Honestly i didn't expect so much interest so quickly and I am flattered :D I will absolutely post a review/comparison of Darkgrid and Chameleon as soon as possible. (It will take a little time to thoroughly go through Darkgrid to make sure the review is as accurate and in-depth as possible.
Thanks so much for your feed back :D
EDITED for Name Change
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On May 02 2012 06:03 Dahkar wrote:
Thoughts on using space bar as attack vs a?(I've always found this helped me tremendously with things like stutter stepping.)
I have looked at a couple layouts that use spacebar for attack. What I would have to do is move all the control groups to the left side and the abilities for the right side. The reason why I avoided this initially is that the most frequently pressed keys are the macro control groups (Day[9]'s "The Tap") and they ought to be on the stronger side of the home keys (FD) as opposed to the weaker side (AS) Its definitely something I want to check out more in-depth. It may be worth sacrificing the strong side for macro in order to have a more efficient attack button.
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On May 02 2012 06:14 NeutraLiTe wrote:
edit: Nevermind, I see some of the notes on this layout vs Darkgrid. It's a huge post, so I missed it on my initial scan. I'm just not convinced that the minor things you've pointed out are worth changing over...
I didn't go anywhere near as in-depth as I will in the Darkgrid review. I agree that looking only at the things in the OP aren't really worth making a switch. I'll get started on it today for sure. Thanks again.
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On May 02 2012 06:05 Toastie wrote:
You have C/V for Unit/Building abilities.
But for example, Raven, OC, Ghost, Infestor, and probably some more, have 3 abilities. How do we use those?
What about Burrow? I like to ahve different hotkeys for burrow + unburrow.
And how do you construct buildings?
Kind regards
Also Toastie, how do you feel about burrow being on a toggle? Right now I have it as N for burrow and Y for unburrow, but they could easily be both on Y. Can you think of a situation where it would be beneficial to have N and Y? (Like some time when half your units are burrowed and the other half are unburrowed)
Fuck, come to think of it, I've never seen a game where a player uses burrow to ambush/surround (aside from banemines), Its not like Terrans are getting Ravens or anything... It would have to be off creep to avoid getting scanned.
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Great post. It comes at a time when I'm going to be investing a lot more time instead of just 1-2 games a week in platinum. I'll let you know how it goes. 
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Do all these hotkey layouts use mouse botton control groups? I tried using the mouse bottons on my g9x and the amount of force required to press the key when you want to do it really fast is just to awkward. And I hate having to use my thumb cause it disrupts my hand position on my mouse.
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On May 02 2012 06:51 Smat wrote:
Do all these hotkey layouts use mouse botton control groups? I tried using the mouse bottons on my g9x and the amount of force required to press the key when you want to do it really fast is just to awkward. And I hate having to use my thumb cause it disrupts my hand position on my mouse.
ABSOLUTELY NOT! I am in 100% agreement with you on the mouse buttons thing. It bugs the hell out of me. This setup is used only with left and right click and the keyboard, no 3rd party programs needed to remap anything :D I've gotten a decent amount of crap for not using mouse buttons. Good to see I'm not alone :D
P.S. There is only one layout, it covers all races and is very similar between races so that playing random or changing races is super easy :D
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On May 02 2012 06:40 TheAngryZergling wrote:Great post. It comes at a time when I'm going to be investing a lot more time instead of just 1-2 games a week in platinum. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks man. I really appreciate it.
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Nice layout man. I currently use my own interpretation of the grid layout that I switched from standard for which I'm pretty happy with but I think this is a good alternative for people wanting to switch from standard.
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A warning for people. While these may be some of the fastest hotkey setups there is, it is definitely not easy to learn. Expect to use a crap ton of time practicing these hotkeys before they will become natural to you.
Edit: Just to help you, be careful of calling this hotkey setup the most efficient as it does not specify to what it is the most efficient to. Could it be saving babies, peeling bananas or learning to dance (me kidding with you). If you want to sell something for what it is, then use the right words like: Currently the fastest hotkey setup. Best balance of natural hand movement and logical hotkey structure etc. I hope you get my point. Being specific will gain you a lot more respect in this modern nerd culture than the sensationalism title (in lack of a better word).
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On May 02 2012 07:03 HyDr0iD wrote:Nice layout man. I currently use my own interpretation of the grid layout that I switched from standard for which I'm pretty happy with but I think this is a good alternative for people wanting to switch from standard.
Cool man Thanks. Feel free to PM me with your setup, I'm always looking for ways to improve this one.
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On May 02 2012 07:05 Mikkerthebhu wrote:
A warning for people. While these may be some of the fastest hotkey setups there is, it is definitely not easy to learn. Expect to use a crap ton of time practicing these hotkeys before they will become natural to you.
I think a crap ton is a bit vague. How many games would it take, you think?
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On May 02 2012 07:21 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:05 Mikkerthebhu wrote:
A warning for people. While these may be some of the fastest hotkey setups there is, it is definitely not easy to learn. Expect to use a crap ton of time practicing these hotkeys before they will become natural to you. I think a crap ton is a bit vague. How many games would it take, you think?
Well I don't know about this setup, but when I transitioned over to mine it took a week of playing for a couple of hours each day before I was able to play without really focusing on what the new keys were.
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On May 02 2012 07:25 HyDr0iD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:21 JaKaTaK wrote:On May 02 2012 07:05 Mikkerthebhu wrote:
A warning for people. While these may be some of the fastest hotkey setups there is, it is definitely not easy to learn. Expect to use a crap ton of time practicing these hotkeys before they will become natural to you. I think a crap ton is a bit vague. How many games would it take, you think? Well I don't know about this setup, but when I transitioned over to mine it took a week of playing for a couple of hours each day before I was able to play without really focusing on what the new keys were.
That was my experience too. I was playing around 10 games a day for a week before it was totally sunk in. I definitely agree that It takes time to adjust, but IMO it is worth it in the long haul.
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Idk mang, looks really hard to get used to so I'll stick with my modified Standard setup.
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On May 02 2012 07:05 Mikkerthebhu wrote:
Edit: Just to help you, be careful of calling this hotkey setup the most efficient as it does not specify to what it is the most efficient to. Could it be saving babies, peeling bananas or learning to dance (me kidding with you). If you want to sell something for what it is, then use the right words like: Currently the fastest hotkey setup. Best balance of natural hand movement and logical hotkey structure etc. I hope you get my point. Being specific will gain you a lot more respect in this modern nerd culture than the sensationalism title (in lack of a better word).
Yea, I agree that the title was a mistake, (I've gotten a moderate amount of crap for it). I was hoping it would challenge people to critique the setup, (which is what I want) but now, I agree, that giving the post that title was the incorrect way of doing so. Do you think using the word "fastest" is more specific that "efficient"? I thought the opposite originally. I will change the title, thank you for the constructive criticism.
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On May 02 2012 07:21 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:05 Mikkerthebhu wrote:
A warning for people. While these may be some of the fastest hotkey setups there is, it is definitely not easy to learn. Expect to use a crap ton of time practicing these hotkeys before they will become natural to you. I think a crap ton is a bit vague. How many games would it take, you think?
Thank you for asking, and I am a bit shameful for not being more specific (which I tend to be). Anyway, I read in an article, which for the damn of me I can't find, that breaking a habit and start a new one over could take 1-2 months with 1-2 hours of dedicated training each day. The reason why I was a bit rude by saying it could take a "crapton" of time is because you have to remember the hotkey structure completely from your memory. Or atleast most of it. It does not entirely follow the visible structure from gridkeys, nor does it entirely use the alphabetical structure of standard hotkeys (which as its default form is quite faulty!). Thus you are completely reliant on your memory to learn that hotkey setup. And that is difficult. It is a lot to remember, and I hope you find a good structural way to teach players how to use them.
Keep the passion going! There is a huge demand for more mechanical guides and techniques !
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A trick for those of you learning new hotkeys though, enable "Display Hotkey text" for the tile grid and anytime you get stuck you can just look down for a moment and see the right key. It is still faster than clicking on the portraits and will help you learn by playing rather than trying to commit all the keys to memory and getting really stuck in the middle of a game when you forget one.
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EPT
