EPT[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 23
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sPlosH
20 Posts
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 15 2012 01:13 sPlosH wrote: what about for zerg and toss?? what will be their benchmarks, since for zerg the mechanics are slightly different. Zerg's started, you can find the first video on FilterSC's YouTube channel or a few pages back in this thread. There's been a lot of discussion on protoss benchmarks in this thread, and I believe we agreed that 50+ probes and 100+ food at ten minutes is a decent benchmark, with the expansion coming down at 4.45 with MCs 1gate FE. Not sure about the numbers in PvZ or PvP yet, but PvZ should be a bit higher on probes atleast. | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
On May 15 2012 01:34 TheExodus wrote: Zerg's started, you can find the first video on FilterSC's YouTube channel or a few pages back in this thread. There's been a lot of discussion on protoss benchmarks in this thread, and I believe we agreed that 50+ probes and 100+ food at ten minutes is a decent benchmark, with the expansion coming down at 4.45 with MCs 1gate FE. Not sure about the numbers in PvZ or PvP yet, but PvZ should be a bit higher on probes atleast. I dont agree with your protoss assessment  55+ probes at 10 minutes, and ~100 food at 10 minutes (90+) is good. but I still maintain the expo is at 3:30-3:45. 4:45 seems insanely late to me. even with a FFE build | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:28 FilthyRake wrote: I dont agree with your protoss assessment 55+ probes at 10 minutes, and ~100 food at 10 minutes (90+) is good. but I still maintain the expo is at 3:30-3:45. 4:45 seems insanely late to me. even with a FFE build I just don't like nexus before core, atleast not yet. I need the reassurance of stalkers in case the terran tries to scv-rush cheese me | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:34 TheExodus wrote: I just don't like nexus before core, atleast not yet. I need the reassurance of stalkers in case the terran tries to scv-rush cheese me 3.45 is nexus after core. Also this is not supposed to be a all-safe BO, or to hold a cheese. It supposed to get your mechanics to work. Got cheesed - > GG -> Move on. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 14 2012 22:46 FilthyRake wrote: haha well, we had an AHGL team, which I was the captain of. We also have the occasional in-house tournament. I also try to sneak in a game or two during lunch  As requested, here are some replays. I tried to cover a wide range. You will note that I screw up pretty badly on some of them. If you want any more, or are looking for how I do against specific things, let me know. my replays are horribly unorganized, so it may take me a while to find what you're asking for. http://drop.sc/179520 http://drop.sc/179521 http://drop.sc/179522 (this is where I tried out building Archons instead of immortals) http://drop.sc/179523 http://drop.sc/179524 http://drop.sc/179525 None of these attacked you, except for the last guy who did it at 10 mins (probably after watching Filters guide )... Do they only do that to me? :/ | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:39 Rimak wrote: 3.45 is nexus after core. Also this is not supposed to be a all-safe BO, or to hold a cheese. It supposed to get your mechanics to work. Got cheesed - > GG -> Move on. Well, there isn't a BO for protoss in the series, so we have to pick our own  I use MCs FE which expands at 4.45 (30 food) with 1 zealot 2 stalkers while ending up with 50+ food (I usually get 52-53) and 100+ food at 10 minutes. It's very safe, still very economic, and quite easy to do. I get cheesed like every game, so I need a safer build :/ | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
On May 15 2012 03:08 TheExodus wrote: None of these attacked you, except for the last guy who did it at 10 mins (probably after watching Filters guide )... Do they only do that to me? :/if you specifically want some replays where I get attacked earlier, I can do that... just make take me a while to dig through and find them | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 15 2012 03:22 FilthyRake wrote: if you specifically want some replays where I get attacked earlier, I can do that... just make take me a while to dig through and find them That would be great, because I definitely need to know how to handle it... On a different move, I basically A-moved a gold protoss right now and kicked his ass I never expanded and my macro slipped a bit, so I only pushed out 43 probes (3-gate robo), but compared to his 29... | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
but, I can tell you right now: I pull probes *sometimes* I can get by with just the forces I've got, depending on when the attack hits, but I almost always wind up pulling probes to help with the defense. it turns out ok, because I'm so far ahead in probe count that even losing a bunch I'm still in good shape and can quickly replenish. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
if you lose a lot of probes, then yeah, the 10 minute attack will have to get delayed a bit to be at all useful. but if you only lose a few, then the 10 minute attack should still be perfectly safe. | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On May 15 2012 01:05 Dvriel wrote: Hello Filter! Just saw and downloaded your replay pack from masters.I expected lot so,now i am lil bit disappointed.Its your TvT.I waited to see how is your BIO style working in Diamond and Master,but you open always with the Banshee one.And the game ends anyways with Marine,Tank,Medivac,Viking...I just hate it.Isnt there any other composition in TvT that works on that high level?The majority of T players on ladder,just leave the game or maki crazy cheese and 1 base all ins,because all of them say,they hate TvT. U said: dont go Tanks if u dont see your oponent makes tanks,but i see that u too are making tanks befere them and u won a game on Daybreak that way. So,really,isnt there any other BO or unit compo in TvT? I'll see if I can find some replays where I go full bio, I really like the fast starport openers because it makes you extremely safe against banshee's, while punishing players that are not safe. I do have some bio plays though. Edit: And I love people that pull workers, I pull my workers on a regular basis if some sort of early attack catches me off guard. The trick is to pull them before your army dies, I don't know how many times I've seen my opponent lose his army, then pull his probes. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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habermas
United Kingdom304 Posts
I have two questions though. What to do against fast 1 base siege tank marine in TvT? I haven't actually been scouting much, but even if I knew it's comming how can I defend siege tanks with a bunch of bio units? I assume bunkers are rather useless. PvZ: I just played a game where I hit all the 10 minute benchmarks and attacked around 11:30 with 4 or 6 medivacs, stim, +1 and 40 (!) food ahead of my opponent. Everything died to 30 banelings. So, is it a viable style assuming I don't have korean micro? | ||
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MaryJoana
Germany156 Posts
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On May 15 2012 08:31 MaryJoana wrote: Filter: I've had a huge amount of success with your Bronze level zerg today, beating high silver into gold into low plat people with just Roach. But I came across one build that has been giving me a hard time, it's a fairly fast one-base sentry/zealot push with the ramp ff'ed. It hits at around minute 7:30 with 8 or so sentries. I will put up a replay tomorrow if you'd like, but would you have any quick advice as to what I should do against this? Or alternatively how I can better spot it coming and be prepared with earlier roaches? If you see him leaving his base with a bunch of sentries, start making roaches. Think of it this way too, even if he kills your expansion if you can keep your drones up and fend off his army he won't be ahead in any way shape or form. (he'll have no tech because of the sentries. As for the 1/1/1 tank push, the bunker is vital. Bunkers give marines enough range to kill banshees and if it's pure marine tank you get a couple of options. Keep the bunker alive, and keep your marines slightly back on hold position. You can't afford to lose marines for free, but because it's a 1 base push you can afford to lose scv's. If he tries to push in with his marines to kill your bunker (repairs will keep it alive against 1-2 tanks easily, even a third in most cases) engage his marines with yours and keep the bunker up. If you kill off all his marines you can grab 3 or 4 scvs to lead the charge and go wipe out his tanks with your marines. The other two options are teching to your own tanks to stop him from advancing (again keeping the bunker or bunkers up is vital) and get tank / viking / marine to stop his push cold. Or you can go for stim/medivacs and just drop his base aiming for a base trade. He won't have enough to defend and you can gut his tech and economy, stopping his reinforcements completely. He won't be able to hold you if you shut down his factory first, then get reactors and tech labs off the barracks, kill the tank that spawns then go for his scvs. In all cases though if your bunker dies, you lose so keep it repaired. | ||
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DeekZ
Australia235 Posts
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Keidy
253 Posts
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Usul.775
Singapore115 Posts
On May 15 2012 15:26 Keidy wrote: Were can i find the zerg guide? Here: | ||
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