EPT[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 21
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Mackx
Netherlands26 Posts
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Forcewater
United Kingdom206 Posts
On May 13 2012 21:12 -Aura- wrote: I'm having trouble with TvZ when the zerg goes fast third, slow tech,and gets a handful of blings to be safe. Here's a replay: http://drop.sc/178987 Disclaimer: Anything I say may be wildly inaccurate and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Your SCV production is pretty good, although there's some room for improvement. The main problem I noticed was that there were some large blips in your unit production, meaning that your attacking force was much weaker than it could have been. On top of that, you did get supply blocked at about 10 minutes; this prevented you from producing units during the battle - something that you must remember to do. You also had some very delayed engineering bays; having +1 during that battle along with those extra units would have turned the tide in your favour. Try loading up a couple of practice games against the computer and seeing if you can consistently hit the benchmarks provided by Filter in the video series. Review the replays, and if you're falling short you should go over the replay and identify points at which you weren't producing or got supply blocked. | ||
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-Aura-
United States209 Posts
On May 13 2012 21:49 Forcewater wrote: Disclaimer: Anything I say may be wildly inaccurate and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Your SCV production is pretty good, although there's some room for improvement. The main problem I noticed was that there were some large blips in your unit production, meaning that your attacking force was much weaker than it could have been. On top of that, you did get supply blocked at about 10 minutes; this prevented you from producing units during the battle - something that you must remember to do. You also had some very delayed engineering bays; having +1 during that battle along with those extra units would have turned the tide in your favour. Try loading up a couple of practice games against the computer and seeing if you can consistently hit the benchmarks provided by Filter in the video series. Review the replays, and if you're falling short you should go over the replay and identify points at which you weren't producing or got supply blocked. Well, thanks for watching, but I'm doing one of the TvZ variations in the diamond videos. Combat shield + the hellions are instead of the early ebay. I was off by 2 scvs, but I don't think that would explained why I got ROLLED. The supply block would have meant that I would have 3-4 more units not by my push, but in my reinforcements. That would have helped, but he had way too many units. You've missed kind of the whole point of my question. If he goes for this low gas, fast 3rd style with slow tech and quick banelings, my push is almost guaranteed to do no damage, and since he isn't teching he can roll me with loads of ling+bane after he shuts down my push by his third. Thanks for watching though. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 13 2012 22:57 -Aura- wrote: Well, thanks for watching, but I'm doing one of the TvZ variations in the diamond videos. Combat shield + the hellions are instead of the early ebay. I was off by 2 scvs, but I don't think that would explained why I got ROLLED. The supply block would have meant that I would have 3-4 more units not by my push, but in my reinforcements. That would have helped, but he had way too many units. You've missed kind of the whole point of my question. If he goes for this low gas, fast 3rd style with slow tech and quick banelings, my push is almost guaranteed to do no damage, and since he isn't teching he can roll me with loads of ling+bane after he shuts down my push by his third. Thanks for watching though. I don't know what that variation is, but against loads of blings+lings you need tanks, and enough of them to move a few forward while a few stays sieged. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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quarkle
United Kingdom92 Posts
thanks for providing the tutorials. Excellent stuff. I followed the Terran set you provided and improved a hell of a lot sadly though my win rate only marginally improved. For some time now I've been considering the switch to Zerg and your new tutorial inspired me to try it on the ladder. Unbelievably my succes rate is already around 85% win rate something I never achieved playing Terran. (just 5 hours after watching your tutorial) Most of the macro discipline was already there thanks to your terran tutorials. I can't believe just how much more forgiving the Zerg race is compared to Terran amd how quickly you can mass a strong army.. Both macro and micro seems way easier with Zerg. Should have switched to Zerg ages ago  Still feel a bit sad that I had to sack Terran but hey Terran is now a totally spent force in sc2. Bliz kind of screwed terenas over. its way more fun winning even if it is with Zerg. cheers. | ||
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LSF
469 Posts
Both macro and micro seems way easier with Zerg. Really? I always thought that zerg macro would be a pain in the a.. compared to terran. (thats why I never even bothered to try Zerg) | ||
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quarkle
United Kingdom92 Posts
On May 14 2012 02:31 LSF wrote: Really? I always thought that zerg macro would be a pain in the a.. compared to terran. (thats why I never even bothered to try Zerg) Yeah that's what I once thought. The queen inject being the largest part of Zerg macro imo. That requires discipline but after a while it becomes muscle memory. But I really like the way with Zerg you build something and don't have to shift click back to the mineral line. Terran also has to manage the mules as well as build a lot more structures and although those things only take a fraction of a moment they soon build up over a long game and start to feel tiring. I do miss not being able to lift a structure if I want or need to relocate it but apart from that Zerg feels like it requires a lot less skill/effort at lower levels. I can only say give Zerg a try, for me its less intense and more enjoyable once you get used to the weird sounds. ps. massing units from a hatch takes hardly any effort once the lava has built up. I've been using darkgrid with terran whereby i can spam 'fd' to produce marines very quickly but its nowhere as fast or easy as the zerg. also love the way you can pretty much leave unit production right up till the last moment with zerg. Couldn't quite do that with Terran. | ||
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`dunedain
657 Posts
On May 13 2012 21:12 -Aura- wrote: I'm having trouble with TvZ when the zerg goes fast third, slow tech,and gets a handful of blings to be safe. Here's a replay: http://drop.sc/178987 Okay, I watched the replay. Here are my suggestions and tips. Use at your own discretion. -First off, put one marine in the bunker. The opponent can't tell how many units are in the bunker, so in the early game, only One marine will suffice, unless you scout pressure. -at 6:00, Z puts down third and you have marines standing aimlessly in your base. He doesn't have speed yet, since he got late gas. Scout around with your pack of marines, leave one in each "vital" point (Towers, third, etc.) Force lings. <-- You can still stutter step your pack of marines vs slow lings. Just get good chokes off. Only be wary of moving out when you see him going speedling expand, that's when you need to turtle up. Also, your build is pretty weird. Switching the factory up with your reactor rax makes no sense if you're going for marines, which you should be going for in a build like this. And if you were going for hellions, you could have just produced them one at a time. Marines are more important. - @10:30 your engagement was just sloppy. You lost your whole army needlessly because you didn't know where his army was positioned. You just ran up the ramp, only to get surrounded by speedlings and blown to shit by banes. Always scan ahead of your army before engaging the enemy. If you have no scans, run in a marine, or even your pack of hellions. Never 1-A into a zerg's base. Also, if you take around marauders with you, always make sure to keep your marines behind them with enough space to stim+run away from threats (banes, infestors, AOE). The sad part is that you would have won that battle if controlled properly. You need to micro both your hellions and marines in that sort of situation. Micro hellions behind the marauder meatshield, while microing your marines away from bane splash. When done efficiently, you'd still have enough units to kill off the 3rd. Lastly, you lost also because you left your wall open. If that was a closed wall, you would have gotten free potshots at his runby and been able to lift off when/if he tries to surround the units outside your base. Your macro is good, now you need to work on micro and map awareness. Hope this helps, GL. | ||
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-Aura-
United States209 Posts
On May 14 2012 08:25 `dunedain wrote: Okay, I watched the replay. Here are my suggestions and tips. Use at your own discretion. -First off, put one marine in the bunker. The opponent can't tell how many units are in the bunker, so in the early game, only One marine will suffice, unless you scout pressure. -at 6:00, Z puts down third and you have marines standing aimlessly in your base. He doesn't have speed yet, since he got late gas. Scout around with your pack of marines, leave one in each "vital" point (Towers, third, etc.) Force lings. <-- You can still stutter step your pack of marines vs slow lings. Just get good chokes off. Only be wary of moving out when you see him going speedling expand, that's when you need to turtle up. Also, your build is pretty weird. Switching the factory up with your reactor rax makes no sense if you're going for marines, which you should be going for in a build like this. And if you were going for hellions, you could have just produced them one at a time. Marines are more important. - @10:30 your engagement was just sloppy. You lost your whole army needlessly because you didn't know where his army was positioned. You just ran up the ramp, only to get surrounded by speedlings and blown to shit by banes. Always scan ahead of your army before engaging the enemy. If you have no scans, run in a marine, or even your pack of hellions. Never 1-A into a zerg's base. Also, if you take around marauders with you, always make sure to keep your marines behind them with enough space to stim+run away from threats (banes, infestors, AOE). The sad part is that you would have won that battle if controlled properly. You need to micro both your hellions and marines in that sort of situation. Micro hellions behind the marauder meatshield, while microing your marines away from bane splash. When done efficiently, you'd still have enough units to kill off the 3rd. Lastly, you lost also because you left your wall open. If that was a closed wall, you would have gotten free potshots at his runby and been able to lift off when/if he tries to surround the units outside your base. Your macro is good, now you need to work on micro and map awareness. Hope this helps, GL. Thanks, I'll try to be more active on the minimap. I guess the only way to get better at micro is to keep playing. Also this isn't "my" build. This is one of the variations Filter shows in the Diamond level videos. Marauders and hellions are really great units to have early game vs zerg imo, and the purpose of marines is just to provide DPS and deal with a small number of mutas if he rushed them out on 2 base. Thanks for your help! :D | ||
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OneBaseKing
Afghanistan412 Posts
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On May 14 2012 17:12 bbrian wrote: Hello I've been practicing these benchmarks the 2nd day you posted this thread now I have literally top-notch masters mechanics no joke. But I keep losing wtf I'm in diamond league now. why am I keep losing I have amazing mechanics? Post some reps man, we can't help you without being able to see why you're dropping some | ||
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zoglug
United Kingdom56 Posts
Protoss are the race ive had the most sucess with on the ladder, however, Zerg are the race id love to be able to learn in depth and actually improve with! Now theres a series with benchmarks, i have something to work towards. Ill give them a go tonight and keep an update on my blog along with some replays i think! Again, top work Filter, i am very grateful for the time and effort you put into making these!!! | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
Don't think I've played a diamond zerg who hasn't roach all-inned me yet. Meng, this shit is crazy. Is it worth leaving like 10 scvs at the choke near the 2 bunkers I make to defend after roaches are spotted/1st wave is pushed back? When I use my hotkey (2) to gather my scvs to repair, I always lose my bunkers anyway; on the other hand, I don't want to lose 10 SCVs of mining time just because he pushes with some roaches at some point.. | ||
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zoglug
United Kingdom56 Posts
On May 14 2012 18:14 TheExodus wrote: Can some of you protosses in the lower leagues please tell me what success rate you have of just A-moving into your opponents base with 100 produced food (sometimes lose some due to early engagements) at 10 mins? It just doesn't seem to work very well for Protoss... The only sucess i have had A-moving into enemy territory is against Terran when i push out at 10/11 mins with 3/4 immortals. Even then, i find myself trying to micro ensuring stalkers at at the back, force fields are going down to split to opposing army. Its very rare i just A-move in without focusing on my army, as i dont find it is cost effective at all. I find i am at my weakest between around 10-15 minutes as protoss due to trying to tech down the right path to deal with what little info i have gathered from scouting, whilst also trying to push out upgrades for my warpgate units. I am reliant on turtling up in my base using wall offs and forcefields to keep me alive. Past the 15 minute mark, i tend to have a large enough and flexible enough 'deathball' that i can deal with most situations and enough warpgates to replenish losses very quickly! At that point i can simply 1A, with a little bit of micro throw in for good measure using storm. | ||
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
Can some of you protosses in the lower leagues please tell me what success rate you have of just A-moving into your opponents base with 100 produced food (sometimes lose some due to early engagements) at 10 mins? It just doesn't seem to work very well for Protoss... There was a guy a while ago who went bronze to diamond using only stalkers and no micro, similar situation. Stalkers are awesome. What he did was macro up to 200/200 and then a-move, with the only micro used for defending drops/banshees/planting a forward pylon. | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On May 14 2012 18:14 TheExodus wrote: Can some of you protosses in the lower leagues please tell me what success rate you have of just A-moving into your opponents base with 100 produced food (sometimes lose some due to early engagements) at 10 mins? It just doesn't seem to work very well for Protoss... A 10 minute amove is really hard with toss, the except being a 2base colossus play but that's pretty all in. Funnily enough I can probably win more games as protoss on ladder than I can with Zerg right now, but it's not even close to stable play. You can play the whole "I hope he doesn't attack" game with protoss all the way through masters honestly, and lately I've been doing a lot of "skill check" builds to punish them when I play Terran. A skillcheck build against toss right now is really early pressure, like the last shadow style 6rax opener. It kills a lot of masters toss straight up on the first push because they're used to Terran simply not attacking. Playing stable and safe with Protoss is really hard, but I'll get around to cracking the code so to speak after I finish my zerg series. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
in silver, it didnt usually win the game, but it would put me far enough ahead that I could then take my third and crush. in gold, it still seems to do pretty well... though I'm having a lot of issues vs zerg atm. as soon as they scout my expo, they mass lings and roaches and just kill me while I'm still teching up lol. works *fantastic* vs terran though. | ||
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