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[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 20

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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TheExodus
Profile Joined November 2011
293 Posts
May 12 2012 14:06 GMT
#381
On May 12 2012 22:12 Natespank wrote:
Show nested quote +
Sadly, Flash managed 63 scv's by 10 minutes, a feat not thought possible within the current constraints of the game.


CC first rather than rax first, only difference I could find. Dang...


CC first ought to be instant death against any race really?
Natespank
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada449 Posts
May 12 2012 14:10 GMT
#382
actually 63 scvs shouldn't be possible at 10 mins
LSF
Profile Joined April 2012
469 Posts
May 12 2012 16:56 GMT
#383
I've been working with the gold league version of your build for a while now and while ladder results vary of course I feel that my general understanding of how the game works has increased a whole bunch. Thanks again for that.

Now I've wondered about one thing: I feel that one slight weakness of this build that you let the enemy do whatever he pleases for 10 minutes. So I've thought about adding a reaper or two once you get the techlab just to create at least some distraction for you opponent.

What do you people think, good or bad idea in general?

TheExodus
Profile Joined November 2011
293 Posts
May 12 2012 17:04 GMT
#384
You have to understand, this is for practicing macro, not for winning every game. If you feel your macro is good enough to handle reaper harass without missing workers, buildings or army that's of course awesome.
LSF
Profile Joined April 2012
469 Posts
May 12 2012 17:11 GMT
#385
On May 13 2012 02:04 TheExodus wrote:
You have to understand, this is for practicing macro, not for winning every game. If you feel your macro is good enough to handle reaper harass without missing workers, buildings or army that's of course awesome.


Yeah I know. It just gets a bit boring sometimes sitting there for 10 minutes doing the exact same things over and over again.
Maybe I'll just give it a try and check if I still hit the macro benchmarks anyway.
Captain Marksie
Profile Joined March 2012
40 Posts
May 12 2012 17:43 GMT
#386
On May 12 2012 23:10 Natespank wrote:
actually 63 scvs shouldn't be possible at 10 mins


If my math is correct:

You start with 6 SCVs and a CC

CC to OC takes 35 seconds. So this means from your original CC you have 9:25 of production time which is 565 seconds.

An SCV takes 17 seconds to build. 565/17=33.2 So that means at 10:00 you will have produced 33 SCVs from your original CC.

15 CC can't really be any earlier than 2:20. It takes 100 seconds to build + 35 to make it an OC which means you can start SCVs at 4:35. 10:00-4:35=5:25 of SCV production time which is 325 seconds. So 325/17=19.1 so the second CC will have produced 19 SCVs by 10:00

33+19+6=58 SCVs

Which is 5 off 63 which is 2.5 per command centre which is 42.5 seconds of poduction time. So 63 SCVs should only be possible at 10:42 unless A) My maths is wrong B) He got another CC at some point (wasnt really paying attention when i watched the replay so might have missed if he did or if he even had 63 SCVs at 10:00)
LSF
Profile Joined April 2012
469 Posts
May 12 2012 17:57 GMT
#387
On May 12 2012 23:10 Natespank wrote:
actually 63 scvs shouldn't be possible at 10 mins


I think filter was joking...
TheExodus
Profile Joined November 2011
293 Posts
May 12 2012 18:10 GMT
#388
On May 13 2012 02:11 LSF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2012 02:04 TheExodus wrote:
You have to understand, this is for practicing macro, not for winning every game. If you feel your macro is good enough to handle reaper harass without missing workers, buildings or army that's of course awesome.


Yeah I know. It just gets a bit boring sometimes sitting there for 10 minutes doing the exact same things over and over again.
Maybe I'll just give it a try and check if I still hit the macro benchmarks anyway.


Definitely do that. If you miss the benchmarks keep practicing with that micro thrown in until you can make them consistently again. That's the great thing about benchmarks; you know what you should have, so if you add something new to your gameplay and miss them you'll know, and also when you're back on track.
TheExodus
Profile Joined November 2011
293 Posts
May 12 2012 18:11 GMT
#389
On May 13 2012 02:43 Captain Marksie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 23:10 Natespank wrote:
actually 63 scvs shouldn't be possible at 10 mins


If my math is correct:

You start with 6 SCVs and a CC

CC to OC takes 35 seconds. So this means from your original CC you have 9:25 of production time which is 565 seconds.

An SCV takes 17 seconds to build. 565/17=33.2 So that means at 10:00 you will have produced 33 SCVs from your original CC.

15 CC can't really be any earlier than 2:20. It takes 100 seconds to build + 35 to make it an OC which means you can start SCVs at 4:35. 10:00-4:35=5:25 of SCV production time which is 325 seconds. So 325/17=19.1 so the second CC will have produced 19 SCVs by 10:00

33+19+6=58 SCVs

Which is 5 off 63 which is 2.5 per command centre which is 42.5 seconds of poduction time. So 63 SCVs should only be possible at 10:42 unless A) My maths is wrong B) He got another CC at some point (wasnt really paying attention when i watched the replay so might have missed if he did or if he even had 63 SCVs at 10:00)


Is it possible for a protoss ally to chrono your CC?
Shmu
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada27 Posts
May 12 2012 22:30 GMT
#390
I thought I saw a Macro Orbital at his natural in one of those videos... would it be possible to hit 63 with an extra command center?
Boiler Bandsman
Profile Joined February 2012
United States391 Posts
May 12 2012 22:37 GMT
#391
On May 12 2012 23:06 TheExodus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 22:12 Natespank wrote:
Sadly, Flash managed 63 scv's by 10 minutes, a feat not thought possible within the current constraints of the game.


CC first rather than rax first, only difference I could find. Dang...


CC first ought to be instant death against any race really?


Number 1: It's Flash.

Number 2: Not really. CC-first works against Nexus-first, Forge-first, some 1gate FEs, Hatch-first(I think), CC-first(obviously), etc. It's greedy, but if they're being greedy too it works fine. Now, against a 2rax or whatever....yeah.
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
TheExodus
Profile Joined November 2011
293 Posts
May 12 2012 22:42 GMT
#392
On May 13 2012 07:37 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2012 23:06 TheExodus wrote:
On May 12 2012 22:12 Natespank wrote:
Sadly, Flash managed 63 scv's by 10 minutes, a feat not thought possible within the current constraints of the game.


CC first rather than rax first, only difference I could find. Dang...


CC first ought to be instant death against any race really?


Number 1: It's Flash.

Number 2: Not really. CC-first works against Nexus-first, Forge-first, some 1gate FEs, Hatch-first(I think), CC-first(obviously), etc. It's greedy, but if they're being greedy too it works fine. Now, against a 2rax or whatever....yeah.


But a CC first must mean that either the CC is planted before scouting or that if you change your mind and need rax they'll be very delayed, right? I've never played terran in my life, but I'm thinking it has to be like that. So when doing it you have to be sure you know your opponent well enough to know he's very likely to go nexus first? So I guess it's only used against Axslav
Boiler Bandsman
Profile Joined February 2012
United States391 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-13 02:00:52
May 13 2012 01:59 GMT
#393
On May 13 2012 07:42 TheExodus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2012 07:37 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
On May 12 2012 23:06 TheExodus wrote:
On May 12 2012 22:12 Natespank wrote:
Sadly, Flash managed 63 scv's by 10 minutes, a feat not thought possible within the current constraints of the game.


CC first rather than rax first, only difference I could find. Dang...


CC first ought to be instant death against any race really?


Number 1: It's Flash.

Number 2: Not really. CC-first works against Nexus-first, Forge-first, some 1gate FEs, Hatch-first(I think), CC-first(obviously), etc. It's greedy, but if they're being greedy too it works fine. Now, against a 2rax or whatever....yeah.


But a CC first must mean that either the CC is planted before scouting or that if you change your mind and need rax they'll be very delayed, right? I've never played terran in my life, but I'm thinking it has to be like that. So when doing it you have to be sure you know your opponent well enough to know he's very likely to go nexus first? So I guess it's only used against Axslav


It's a gamble, yes. But it's not insta-death automatically, only against certain builds. Not something that would fly on ladder with its high cheese coefficient, but among pros it's a viable macro opening. It trounces 1rax fe, for one thing.

EDIT: And....it's Flash. LOL
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
May 13 2012 02:25 GMT
#394
I recall a game from a few months ago on Daybreak where someone went 15cc against a 6 pool and won. Still not recommended on ladder. :p
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
BadgKat
Profile Joined June 2011
United States156 Posts
May 13 2012 05:12 GMT
#395
I decided to follow your advice. I'm a platinum level Terran So I borrowed my brothers account (he hasn't used it at all, still in practice league) I left all of my placement matches (won one of them on accident, he left before me). So I was placed in silver league. I watched only your bronze level video.
I tried to hit your bench marks. I put down my cc at about 3:30 each match (not sure why so much faster, I should probably look into it). I hit 47-49 scvs every match. I microed as little as possible and focused only on making stuff.
I've only lost 3 times. 2 times against a Terran who made tanks, and because of my forswearing of micro I lost. The other was a toss who got a colossus up and as able to FF me at his nat in a bad position.
I was just promoted to gold on my eleventh game. I've beaten 1 plat player so far. So I can say with out a doubt your guide for bronze works up to gold level. Well done. The bench marks thing is very elegant. I think this has improved my play dramatically already.
Pzar
Profile Joined August 2011
New Zealand46 Posts
May 13 2012 05:55 GMT
#396
I've just started trying this (after another long hiatus from SC2 >.<) in Silver league, but using the Bronze league benchmarks.

Lost a game (well, I say lost, but really, I'm playing a different game, and I won that one =P), and watching the replay, I noticed something (I left it running while eating just now)...

It took me 10 Blizzard minutes of derping unupgraded marines into siege lines and planetary fortresses for him to match my supply.

AND I messed up on the spending part, and was floating 2k+ minerals the whole time (yesyes, I know I have to fix that, but I think tha's mostly later videos, and it's part of what I want to work on before moving up videos anyway)
Tulx
Profile Joined July 2010
Estonia11 Posts
May 13 2012 06:54 GMT
#397
THANK YOU FILTER for the first zerg video! :D Awesome

If anyone is looking for it
Not everyone understands that internet spaceships are a serious business.
Forcewater
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom206 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-13 06:55:17
May 13 2012 06:54 GMT
#398
Just to let everyone know, Filter just uploaded his first video in the zerg improvement series here:
[image loading]
.

EDIT: Ninja'd T_T
"Reddit on the other hand has always just been a box full of retarded blind puppies licking and sniffing everything they come in contact with and leaving it moist and oily" - Gamegene
bananajk
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany92 Posts
May 13 2012 10:24 GMT
#399
Very nice Guide, VODs annd I also like your stream. Need to download all the reps now for getting that sexy TvZ build
fragster.de | [F_]ragster
-Aura-
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States209 Posts
May 13 2012 12:12 GMT
#400
I'm having trouble with TvZ when the zerg goes fast third, slow tech,and gets a handful of blings to be safe. Here's a replay:
http://drop.sc/178987
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Liquid get more Terrans please...
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