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On May 10 2012 13:46 4bsylon88 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 13:04 Beebs wrote:On May 10 2012 05:17 4bsylon88 wrote:Hi all, i must say these guides are awsome!!! Just one question (up to silver) - how do you beat a terran that is basically turtling with siegetanks and mass turrets? Its the only matchup where get real problems OR i contain him, expand 2-3times and just wear him down (30-40min matches)... Most fun matchup for me is TvZ going mass marine (10-15 rax) no gas nonstop marine marathon  Best regards 4bsylon I'm no expert, but I think you may have answered your own question with "contain him, expand 2-3times and just wear him down" That's what has worked for me... but I'm in bronze league. Ok - that's fair. Is there any special composition of units that work better then the bio-ball? BC's are hard to use due to the high ammounts of turrets, Thor's seems to get burned just as easy as the bio ball (vs 3-5 siegetanks)... Maybe mass drop (4-6 medivacs) with marauders or something could work. Best regards //4bsylon
When your opponent tank/turret turtles on two bases, the fastest and most common solution is to get air superiority with vikings (or just spot with a medivac if he has no vikings) then tank push him by abusing the fact that tanks shoot farther than they see. Click on his furthest tank to see its range, move 1-2 of your tanks just barely into range, and siege up. He'll have to scan to shoot back, and since he's only on 2 bases, he'll run out of scans quickly. Even if you trade inefficiently, it's not a problem if you're up 1-2 bases on him. Also, put a few turrets / sensor towers around his base so he doesn't drop you.
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Filter bro,
Since using your videos I've went from a gold mmr as terran to diamond. Thanks dude!
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On May 10 2012 15:22 Snoodles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 23:27 FilthyRake wrote:1 gate FE is 100% the way to go vs terran. no question. Honestly, you can do it with no scouting at all, and be astonishingly safe against pretty much anything but 2-rax all-ins and crazy fast 1/1/1 builds. here's an OK example of what I'm doing: http://drop.sc/175480(note that I didnt quite finish 1/1 before 10 mins, which I can do most of the time by now) I havent counted probes on that replay yet, so I'm not sure how well I did there. I noticed you had your 50 probes by nine minutes, but that build looks so dangerous
It's safe vs a 1-rax fe, but gets in trouble with a lot of other things, especially if the terran knows what you're doing.
I'm doing MCs 1gate fe instead. Gets me 52-55 probes by 10 minutes.
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On May 10 2012 00:01 Callynn wrote:
Looks great, watched your first video and your last video and I would like to point out some improvement points you should be striving for in any upcoming content that you give comment on: You are a fast talker. I am not a native english speaker but do have a general understanding of the language (as can be seen by some of my own posts and threads). However, you are a naturally fast talker and sometimes even skip parts of words to get what you want to say rolling out.
You should pay attention to that if you want your videos to be understood by the whole community (everyone should know enough english to understand you, but following your speed can be taxing I think).
That being said, your content is of high quality - keep up the good work (and give some Zerg videos, I'm stuck on diamond).
Thanks for the feedback man! I try to keep my talking speed down as much as possible, I'll make more of an effort in the future videos to slow it down a bit. I get what you mean by skipping parts of words, that's probably my biggest issue (do it in real life too obviously), so I'll try to edit that stuff as much as possible.
Thanks for the compliment too, feedbacks always welcome :D
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Oh, and Filter, even through I manage to pull off 50+ probes and 100+ supply by ten minutes I'm still at 35EAPM, where does the rest of yours come from? Is T simply more intensive due to the difference in building with probes and SCVs? I feel I have plenty of idle time with my fingers so there's definitely room for more... Perhaps it'll grow when I start scouting and adding a third? I'm still waiting for that doubling you promised in the first vid
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On May 10 2012 17:02 TheExodus wrote:Oh, and Filter, even through I manage to pull off 50+ probes and 100+ supply by ten minutes I'm still at 35EAPM, where does the rest of yours come from? Is T simply more intensive due to the difference in building with probes and SCVs? I feel I have plenty of idle time with my fingers so there's definitely room for more... Perhaps it'll grow when I start scouting and adding a third? I'm still waiting for that doubling you promised in the first vid
Once you start adding attacking, dropping and dealing with harass it quickly gets taken away.
That being said.. if you feel really relaxed and you're hitting everything perfect thats a good thing, a really good thing.
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First, let me say what an amazing guide this is.
What you say in your introduction is completely true. There are thousands of guides on TL and other sites available but non seem to capture the essence this 'Core' which you explain so well in the OP and videos. I would like to thank you for showing me and other players the importance of macro when learning the game.
Mods, make the OP sticky please. If there's a man who deserves credit for a perfect (Terran) guide, it's Filter from Canada 
The generic thread title is the only thing which, I think, prevents high-level players from reading this thread since they're obviously not looking for more and more guides. However, that is by no means any problem for you nor the community since you're already helping so many people. I would just call this 'Macro: the Core' 
Checked in on your stream last night and saw your Zerg play. As a zerg player myself I am thrilled to see a similar Zerg-version of this with benchmarks. I understand it is much harder since ZvZ doesn't make sense until GM level and the Macro mechanics are just so different with Zerg. As much as I would like to see it, I suggest you do Protoss first. While Macro might be the essence of Zerg, it requires a LOT more for a Zerg player to get to Diamond/Masters.
Nevertheless, a huge thanks from me and probably on behalf of the Bronze-Platinum league players for what you have already done and I can only say;
Keep up the great work
Greets from the Netherlands.
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Yesterday played terran from my friends acc.
He is in bronze, was using Filter's technique.
I am no terran and have simply no idea how to play them, and also i don't know the hotkeys or anything. (well now i know that scv is S and Rine is A =))
The results were... amazing. In about 3 hours we got friends acc from ~15th broze to top silver, with building pure rines and no micro involved.
Personal favorite is when rines took out a toss with 2 coloss in his army, had around 24 rax with reactors at that point.
Soo, i'm kinda sorry now that I'm not a terran, cuz it's so easy.
Thanks again Filter.
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On May 10 2012 18:34 Rimak wrote:
I am no terran and have simply no idea how to play them, and also i don't know the hotkeys or anything. (well now i know that scv is S and Rine is A =))
I don't understand why everyone doesn't use the grid layout
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On May 10 2012 18:39 TheExodus wrote:I don't understand why everyone doesn't use the grid layout
I used it, when was learning toss, but then just eventually learned every hotkey and now i'm not even looking at hotkey tab =)
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On May 10 2012 18:39 TheExodus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 18:34 Rimak wrote:
I am no terran and have simply no idea how to play them, and also i don't know the hotkeys or anything. (well now i know that scv is S and Rine is A =))
I don't understand why everyone doesn't use the grid layout
Attack on t? Abilities all on the crappiest keys on the keyboard? No thanks. I seriously tried grid for a few months in beta and just couldn't get used to it. 10+ years of BW ingrained too many habits for me.
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On May 10 2012 18:52 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 18:39 TheExodus wrote:On May 10 2012 18:34 Rimak wrote:
I am no terran and have simply no idea how to play them, and also i don't know the hotkeys or anything. (well now i know that scv is S and Rine is A =))
I don't understand why everyone doesn't use the grid layout Attack on t? Abilities all on the crappiest keys on the keyboard? No thanks. I seriously tried grid for a few months in beta and just couldn't get used to it. 10+ years of BW ingrained too many habits for me.
But they're all on the left side of the keyboard, and the same for all races A bunch of years of pvp in WoW has given me a love for all keys closely bunched together
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On May 10 2012 16:32 TheExodus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 15:22 Snoodles wrote:On May 09 2012 23:27 FilthyRake wrote:1 gate FE is 100% the way to go vs terran. no question. Honestly, you can do it with no scouting at all, and be astonishingly safe against pretty much anything but 2-rax all-ins and crazy fast 1/1/1 builds. here's an OK example of what I'm doing: http://drop.sc/175480(note that I didnt quite finish 1/1 before 10 mins, which I can do most of the time by now) I havent counted probes on that replay yet, so I'm not sure how well I did there. I noticed you had your 50 probes by nine minutes, but that build looks so dangerous It's safe vs a 1-rax fe, but gets in trouble with a lot of other things, especially if the terran knows what you're doing. I'm doing MCs 1gate fe instead. Gets me 52-55 probes by 10 minutes.
The only change you need to make, to keep it safe against a larger variety of stuff, is to not try to get so many upgrades by 10 minutes and just get your other GWs earlier for unit production. Thats how I originally started out, and you can still 100% maintain 55-60 probes as Protoss.
to elaborate, if you just get 1/1 and not 1/1/charge you save yourself 300+ minerals and can easily throw down those 2 extra gateways earlier and be totally safe. Especially since you also saved 300+ gas and can get stalkers/sentries.
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This is SO awesome. I'm in bronze and have practiced a little bit according to your plan. I just beat a terran handily with my 1-gate FE against his 2-rax (after taking the great advice of Rimak and pulling probes which helped A LOT), and when the game ended I had produced 86 probes to his 31 SCVs, and I had stopped producing probes quite a while before the game ended as it seemed I had too many I just had SOOO much more stuff than him and completely steamrolled his marauder+viking+thor army with my zealot+stalker+voidray ball that I kept insta-maxing.
86 v 31! That's amazing! Thank you!
And yeah, the 2-rax was hideously executed and he sucked, but no more than other silvers I think (he was silver I'm bronze)
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Uhm... right now my problem is that my "Workers built" tab shows over 100 workers at the end of the game. This seems like a bit much Do I always go for 3 fully saturated bases? In which case I really need to get the expand timings down pat, and I've just started watching the silver league videos...
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On May 11 2012 18:35 TheExodus wrote:Uhm... right now my problem is that my "Workers built" tab shows over 100 workers at the end of the game. This seems like a bit much Do I always go for 3 fully saturated bases? In which case I really need to get the expand timings down pat, and I've just started watching the silver league videos...
You should never ever go over 80 workers as Terran, and rarely over 70. You just don't need that much mining (4+ bases for 100 workers), and it supply-caps your army size badly. That said, bear in mind that the "workers trained" stat doesn't account for losses to harass/all-in defense/whatever. Basically, you should aim for 70 or so workers ON HAND, so if you lose 30, 100 workers trained actually is the right number.
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On May 11 2012 18:35 TheExodus wrote:Uhm... right now my problem is that my "Workers built" tab shows over 100 workers at the end of the game. This seems like a bit much Do I always go for 3 fully saturated bases? In which case I really need to get the expand timings down pat, and I've just started watching the silver league videos...
It's okay to have large abount of probes in bronze-silver, later you'll just start to count them.
You need:
2 lines of probes saturated on minerals on 3 bases
3 x 16 = 48
3 probes per assimilator per base
3 x 2 x 3 = 18
2 to 4 probes for scouting, proxy pylon building
48 + 18 + 4 = 70
65-69 is not bad
69-71 probes is perfect.
72-76 is okay
77+ is overproduction.
Terrans may have less SCV's due to MULEs.
Zerg may require some additional drones, due to their building system.
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Oh, so I could pretty much go for my third after 11 minutes or so, and have full saturation?
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On May 11 2012 19:27 TheExodus wrote:
Oh, so I could pretty much go for my third after 11 minutes or so, and have full saturation?
Depending on how game goes, yes, taking a third at 11 is fine by me, thou i prefer taking a third right after my first colosi is out (it is aprox at same 11 minutes)
It's like
1 gate FE - > 3 gate robo -> obs (to check if no tricky allin incoming) -> 5 gate robo + double forge -> Bay at 9 min -> Exp @ 1st collo.
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Just wanted to join the ranks of people thanking Filter for these guides. It is simply awesome and though I am a total n00b I can already feel how solid this basic way of playing feels. Skipped pretty quick from the Bronze mechanics to Silver ditto and since I started playing like this I have won 19 out of the 29 games (bronze and silver gameplan combined) I have played so far.
Thank you Filter for the most comprehensive guide on Terran macro play. It rox.
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EPT
