EPT
[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 17
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TheExodus
293 Posts
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 09 2012 19:37 Natespank wrote: Any guidelines for games with early pressure? I've been practising against 4 gates lately with a friend and while I can track my SCV deaths towards my 10min SCV count, I'm not sure how to gauge how I did in terms of tech and upgrades. Check the replays  | ||
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Captain Marksie
40 Posts
On May 09 2012 19:37 Natespank wrote: Any guidelines for games with early pressure? I've been practising against 4 gates lately with a friend and while I can track my SCV deaths towards my 10min SCV count, I'm not sure how to gauge how I did in terms of tech and upgrades. Ideally the pressure should not effect the benchmarks but obviously if you have to pull workers and/or make more bunkers it will delay some things. But if he is putting on that much pressure to force you to pull workers and/or make more bunkers, which will probably delay the benchmarks, you will still come out ahead of him and be in a strong position to make the same push (even if its a minute or two late and assuming you still have some army left over from the pressure). I find it helps to try and keep an eye on my gas when dealing with pressure. I know that if i have 100 gas in the bank i should be spending it on tech. So if im dealing with early pressure and see my gas hit 100 i know i need to throw down a factory, or what ever is the thing i havent done yet like stim, starport blah blah blah. It only takes a second to quickly select an svc and build a factory, also just leave the scv there, no need to rally him back to the mineral line (you would probs leave him there anyways to build the starport but what i mean is in general if you need to build something while being attacked just leave the scv there to save you time and get back to the fight. The other handy thing about leaving him there is you can just press f1 if you need to build another thing which is quicker than going to the mineral line and selecting a dude) | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
On May 09 2012 15:55 TheExodus wrote: I haven't been able to find a good benchmark for probes when playing protoss. Is 50 probes at 10 minutes ok? Theoretically we should be able to have more than terrans, but we can't expand quite as early while still being safe. Or atleast I can't, with my bronze skills Rimak and I have posted a few times for protoss stuff in this thread. 55-60 at 10 minutes seems to be a good benchmark. I havent gone higher than 62-63. 60 is easy doing the bronze level stuff. When start teching it gets a lot harder to maintain, and that seems to be where I see dropoff to around 55. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 09 2012 20:57 FilthyRake wrote: Rimak and I have posted a few times for protoss stuff in this thread. 55-60 at 10 minutes seems to be a good benchmark. I havent gone higher than 62-63. 60 is easy doing the bronze level stuff. When start teching it gets a lot harder to maintain, and that seems to be where I see dropoff to around 55. I have some ways to go then With which expansion timing and build do you get 60 probes? | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
expansion at 3:30-3:45 constantly chrono probes til you get your forge up, then chrono upgrades I throw down my cyber + forge before my second gateway, and I take my second gas right around when I throw down the forge. constantly building zealots out of my gateways until warpgate finishes (I dont spend any chrono on it) | ||
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Shmu
Canada27 Posts
Gold level Zerg here, I was so excited after watching the first guide that I switched to T and jumped on the ladder... and started winning O.O I really have no idea how to play Terran, but apparently marines are pretty good. I've moved on to the Silver Benchmarks now, and I've almost hit them in ladder matches (best was 48 scvs and 99 supply) the only problem I'm running into is winning too much! I keep getting matched against Platinum... where they beat me with 1 base play, or "micro"... or actually getting upgrades n stuff... what's interesting is that even though I lose and don't make the benchmarks, throughout all these games I'm consistently way ahead in supply! I need to go find your donate page again... I have money that should be yours. Thank you so much for the guides Filter. This changes everything. -Shmu (p.s. - I'm also pretty damn excited that you're doing Zerg next!) | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 09 2012 22:28 FilthyRake wrote: without going into crazy details (feel free to PM me for replays or more information): expansion at 3:30-3:45 constantly chrono probes til you get your forge up, then chrono upgrades I throw down my cyber + forge before my second gateway, and I take my second gas right around when I throw down the forge. constantly building zealots out of my gateways until warpgate finishes (I dont spend any chrono on it) Hm, I feel I lack the skill to do that build safely against any race really Your nexus goes down earlier than mine (2 gate robo) which could explain why I've never gotten above 52 probes. I feel I could get out 55 since I believe I had a short supply block.Once I'm good enough at decision making based on probe scouting I'll start doing 1 gate FE against terrans which should net atleast 5 more probes, I think? | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
Honestly, you can do it with no scouting at all, and be astonishingly safe against pretty much anything but 2-rax all-ins and crazy fast 1/1/1 builds. here's an OK example of what I'm doing: http://drop.sc/175480 (note that I didnt quite finish 1/1 before 10 mins, which I can do most of the time by now) I havent counted probes on that replay yet, so I'm not sure how well I did there. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 09 2012 23:27 FilthyRake wrote: 1 gate FE is 100% the way to go vs terran. no question. Honestly, you can do it with no scouting at all, and be astonishingly safe against pretty much anything but 2-rax all-ins and crazy fast 1/1/1 builds. here's an OK example of what I'm doing: http://drop.sc/175480 (note that I didnt quite finish 1/1 before 10 mins, which I can do most of the time by now) I havent counted probes on that replay yet, so I'm not sure how well I did there. Thanks mate, will check it once I get home Is there ANY way to hold marine+scv rushes with it, or even without SCVs? I seem to have ended up at an MMR that matches me against that a LOT these last few days... | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
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Callynn
Netherlands917 Posts
You should pay attention to that if you want your videos to be understood by the whole community (everyone should know enough english to understand you, but following your speed can be taxing I think). That being said, your content is of high quality - keep up the good work (and give some Zerg videos, I'm stuck on diamond). | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On May 09 2012 23:15 TheExodus wrote: Hm, I feel I lack the skill to do that build safely against any race really Your nexus goes down earlier than mine (2 gate robo) which could explain why I've never gotten above 52 probes. I feel I could get out 55 since I believe I had a short supply block.Once I'm good enough at decision making based on probe scouting I'll start doing 1 gate FE against terrans which should net atleast 5 more probes, I think? 2 gate robo is actually really bad against terran. Well maybe not REALLY bad, but it is most surely not enought. 1. Terran 1 base>Protoss 1 base Most of Protoss power comes from his tech, and tech for protoss is pretty damn expensive. 2. If Terran goes FE, then i would say that a 2 gate robo is really close to BO-loss, and from my point of view it's worse than dying from some cheese you coud've handele, but didn't have enought micro skills. Think of it this way: (not considering allin) Terran have cheap, cost-effective units at his disposal @ 1 base Toss have expensive cost-ineffective units, but they can become effective with tech. So you have 2 options as toss: a) Get more units than you enemy = need more base b) Get same amount as from 1 base, but add tech = need more base If you figure out what pressure can Terran do, and know how to react, then you understand that getting a FE against Terran is a much safer oppening, than starting 1 base. Now about Zerg. Zerg is forced to have more units than you do, because your units are far more effective than his. So if you go for a fast exp Zerg is forced to do one of 2 things: 1) Stay over your eco, by getting a fast 3rd (which means no agression from zerg early on) 2) Go for an all-in (which is pretty much obvious, if he stays on 2 base) If you figure out what allins can zerg do, and know how to react, then you understand that getting a FE against zerg is a much safer oppening, than starting 1 base. PvP going blindly into FE is suicide =) | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On May 10 2012 00:05 Rimak wrote: 2 gate robo is actually really bad against terran. Well maybe not REALLY bad, but it is most surely not enought. 1. Terran 1 base>Protoss 1 base Most of Protoss power comes from his tech, and tech for protoss is pretty damn expensive. 2. If Terran goes FE, then i would say that a 2 gate robo is really close to BO-loss, and from my point of view it's worse than dying from some cheese you coud've handele, but didn't have enought micro skills. Think of it this way: (not considering allin) Terran have cheap, cost-effective units at his disposal @ 1 base Toss have expensive cost-ineffective units, but they can become effective with tech. So you have 2 options as toss: a) Get more units than you enemy = need more base b) Get same amount as from 1 base, but add tech = need more base If you figure out what pressure can Terran do, and know how to react, then you understand that getting a FE against Terran is a much safer oppening, than starting 1 base. Now about Zerg. Zerg is forced to have more units than you do, because your units are far more effective than his. So if you go for a fast exp Zerg is forced to do one of 2 things: 1) Stay over your eco, by getting a fast 3rd (which means no agression from zerg early on) 2) Go for an all-in (which is pretty much obvious, if he stays on 2 base) If you figure out what allins can zerg do, and know how to react, then you understand that getting a FE against zerg is a much safer oppening, than starting 1 base. PvP going blindly into FE is suicide =) Well, it's gate,robo,gate,nexus,more gates. It get's a pretty early nexus, just not as early as a 1gate expand. | ||
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4bsylon88
Sweden4 Posts
Just one question (up to silver) - how do you beat a terran that is basically turtling with siegetanks and mass turrets? Its the only matchup where get real problems OR i contain him, expand 2-3times and just wear him down (30-40min matches)... Most fun matchup for me is TvZ going mass marine (10-15 rax) no gas nonstop marine marathon  Best regards 4bsylon | ||
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Beebs
2 Posts
On May 10 2012 05:17 4bsylon88 wrote: Hi all, i must say these guides are awsome!!! Just one question (up to silver) - how do you beat a terran that is basically turtling with siegetanks and mass turrets? Its the only matchup where get real problems OR i contain him, expand 2-3times and just wear him down (30-40min matches)... Most fun matchup for me is TvZ going mass marine (10-15 rax) no gas nonstop marine marathon Best regards 4bsylon I'm no expert, but I think you may have answered your own question with "contain him, expand 2-3times and just wear him down" That's what has worked for me... but I'm in bronze league. | ||
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4bsylon88
Sweden4 Posts
On May 10 2012 13:04 Beebs wrote: I'm no expert, but I think you may have answered your own question with "contain him, expand 2-3times and just wear him down" That's what has worked for me... but I'm in bronze league. Ok - that's fair. Is there any special composition of units that work better then the bio-ball? BC's are hard to use due to the high ammounts of turrets, Thor's seems to get burned just as easy as the bio ball (vs 3-5 siegetanks)... Maybe mass drop (4-6 medivacs) with marauders or something could work. Best regards //4bsylon | ||
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Snoodles
401 Posts
On May 09 2012 23:27 FilthyRake wrote: 1 gate FE is 100% the way to go vs terran. no question. Honestly, you can do it with no scouting at all, and be astonishingly safe against pretty much anything but 2-rax all-ins and crazy fast 1/1/1 builds. here's an OK example of what I'm doing: http://drop.sc/175480 (note that I didnt quite finish 1/1 before 10 mins, which I can do most of the time by now) I havent counted probes on that replay yet, so I'm not sure how well I did there. I noticed you had your 50 probes by nine minutes, but that build looks so dangerous | ||
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