EPTcheers
[G] PvZ Adonminus Macro-Aggressive Style - Page 3
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Yuffie
132 Posts
cheers | ||
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
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Acidfiend
Australia11 Posts
I usually have no idea waht to do in PvZ, tried a 3 Gate Sentry Expo but it seems like I always fall behind. Hopefully this is more my style. | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On February 26 2012 15:05 Acidfiend wrote: Man you are awesome, thanks for this! Only watched the Breathe & Baneling bust replays, the others wouldn't work for me (version unavailable.. maybe because on I'm SEA). Love the BM from your opponents. I usually have no idea waht to do in PvZ, tried a 3 Gate Sentry Expo but it seems like I always fall behind. Hopefully this is more my style. Patch 1.4.3 isn't up on SEA yet, I believe it will be up at February 27. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
You may pick up wins against players who don't react properly to the opener (not get 3rd hatch, not drone up, etc), but if any of the aggression fails you won't simply be able to take and defend a third except perhaps on maps that zergs should veto anyway where the third base is free. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On February 26 2012 18:25 oOOoOphidian wrote: You really shouldn't name this after yourself, as you're simply using a combination of other builds. The gate/forge opener is questionable, but the bigger concern is that the 4 gate +1 zealot timing is the first thing every zerg will scout and prepare for, along with the +2 blink follow up. If you attack, it's weaker than an 8 gate +2 after an FFE, while either way the zerg can easily drone up, then deny your 3rd forever. You may pick up wins against players who don't react properly to the opener (not get 3rd hatch, not drone up, etc), but if any of the aggression fails you won't simply be able to take and defend a third except perhaps on maps that zergs should veto anyway where the third base is free. His zealot +1 hits really fast so it will always do damage or at least force a lot of units. I do agree that this is more an all-in and less a macro style, because if the zerg defends your blink push well you can't get that third base up ever. | ||
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RRDjhonn
34 Posts
I think that this strat works better with standard yuffe , im not saying that you cant defend early pools and cheese runs with it , i only say that yuffe do more ez , i will check it if 45 lesser segs in core do my day  | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
I've been messing with several variations of a 1 gate FE before gas > fast cyber for a month or so now. I have found that a little sim city can be very helpful vs early ling/roach aggression you see from some zergs when they scout your weird nexus/forge timing. By building your very first pylon and gateway on the low ground, you can create a ling-tight wall-in with your zealot to prevent runbys. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/DKBiq0-SYoCVxmCtP9WMZ4Q9UFlawC61YstFnfGVYBwnBQQggvKZt9j3oabmL7glDhzYFfIRU1g-enuKfR2MBfmgGojMOSQ31q82WG-1hkrxGdfttRs) Pylon goes in the very center of the ramp. Gateway on the forward corner. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/6nhIw0yMPecnvPEA9HWag9CsFVx9FLD4DfXwqwAxwFUSEYkunLvKL6ZWImhNQxuNO7zbqyB2ue9jv1d50m9ivECR5fV1TQmGtKY27WugvQ9KfxnLwHs) this shape allows you to also add your forge on the first pylon, walling in quickly on many maps. For shattered, I like to add another pylon and 2 gates. This wall can be done before most roach pressure: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/5fdiLhb_1I3f02RYRS5fQmN7C2ssbsN7n1jEIPbxKd6FfRX4phYhevtl6xqNHs1LO0lV3whFiNJLDoenVsYYsSP8eh8l090wpiOWlaR15Z6hbHC71yE) I think 1 gate gasless FE is a really cool style that has a ton of potential to shake up PvZ. I usually get the gateway a bit earlier, 11 or 12, to be safe from 8/11 pool 6 ling harassment, but I think with these adjustment it can be safe vs almost any opening, and get a very early nexus and tech to boot. The blink follow up is really cool, I'll be studying your replays for a while to improve my transitions =) Thanks and glhf! | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On February 26 2012 05:17 Adonminus wrote: The problem with 2 base zerg is that they will be lacking larva unless they build a macro hatch, a macro hatch is fine if you're going to be defensive and put spine crawlers and go something like 2 base muta. However if you go roaches, your army is strong enough to allow you to get that 3rd, so it's pretty useless. My zealot push is so strong that it will kill his natural instead of his 3rd if he goes so. However if he stops the push by getting really really early roaches, then he's forced on the offensive and I will defend it with stalkers. And I really doubt how he can get more drones than me. Sorry, all names taken. You don't want me to call it the Zealot mega doom attack off 1 gate nexus transitioning invincible blink stalkers into mass nexus protoss op qq? Don't you? Ow, something bad has happened. When making this I tried an other replay site so it could be uploaded easier and faster. It seems it doesn't work. I'll try to reupload with my old replay site. Don't worry people, it will be fixed soon. Zealot mega doom attack off 1 gate nexus transitioning invincible blink stalkers into mass nexus protoss op qq thats awesome. Do it.... | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
On February 27 2012 08:41 AGIANTSMURF wrote: Zealot mega doom attack off 1 gate nexus transitioning invincible blink stalkers into mass nexus protoss op qq thats awesome. Do it.... yeah I went zmdao1gntibsimnpopqq vs his 14/14 and totally owned him with the +2 blink push. more seriously, in my notes I've been calling it 1 gate no gas FE, or 1g0g in my replay shorthand | ||
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
The zerg went for early roaches to stop my zealots, but ended up behind in economy and died to blink stalker immortal sentry. | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
One zerg build I've had trouble with is if he does 14 pool 14 hatch, and when he scouts your expo just immediately rallies slow lings. I think if you cyber first in this case you lose everything on the low ground, and he is an expo up, while you are 1 base with no tech. If you forge first, it's still a close thing. Do you have any replays vs this? | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On February 28 2012 01:25 quillian wrote: Adonminus, One zerg build I've had trouble with is if he does 14 pool 14 hatch, and when he scouts your expo just immediately rallies slow lings. I think if you cyber first in this case you lose everything on the low ground, and he is an expo up, while you are 1 base with no tech. If you forge first, it's still a close thing. Do you have any replays vs this? I'll try it out later. I believe the 20 forge can hold it, but still need to check it out. I think the most important thing is not lose your 1st zealot to the zerglings, so you pull some probes and hold it with zealots and probes until cannon is up. Since basically once your cannon is up, he can't do anything. Edit: I tested it out, your scout probe will notice the lings coming so you build forge before cyber, then you pull 5-7 probes and use them as well as your one zealot to hold lings until photon cannons is finished. If you really need it, I could also post replay. | ||
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Eifer
United States138 Posts
Is 6 pool an auto win against this build? To defend a 1 base roach allin would you scout& throw down cannons? It hits ~5:00-5:30, much faster than the 2base roach replay hitting at 7:00 A few questions about your replay against Breathe: Why did you never invest in sentries? Why no void rays in your end game PvZ? Was taking your 4th gas so late a calculated choice? He chose to go roach hydra infestor, but what if he chose burrow roach to counter your blink push? To my understanding, if that push fails, you have nothing to follow it up with (read: 0 units in your base after your blink stalkers died). Are you saving chrono for tech? (180 chrono at home after blink push in Breathe game) Have you experimented with chronoeing probes more and instead choose not to? I feel this build with some tweaking can be very viable, but I have some reservations towards the potential counters, desired unit compositions, and early mid game interplay of build timings. Thanks for the build skeleton - looking forward to your answers | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:33 Eifersuchtig wrote: Is 6 pool an auto win against this build? It actually holds better than FFE. If you're really afraid of 6 pool, you can get your gate at 12 instead of 13. On February 28 2012 02:33 Eifersuchtig wrote: To defend a 1 base roach allin would you scout& throw down cannons? It hits ~5:00-5:30, much faster than the 2base roach replay hitting at 7:00. You can easily scout him 1 basing, and add extra cannons. As I said before, if your scout probe arrives at his base and his expansion hasn't started yet, then it's probable all in. On February 28 2012 02:33 Eifersuchtig wrote: A few questions about your replay against Breathe: Why did you never invest in sentries? Why no void rays in your end game PvZ? Was taking your 4th gas so late a calculated choice? He chose to go roach hydra infestor, but what if he chose burrow roach to counter your blink push? To my understanding, if that push fails, you have nothing to follow it up with (read: 0 units in your base after your blink stalkers died). Are you saving chrono for tech? (180 chrono at home after blink push in Breathe game) Have you experimented with chronoeing probes more and instead choose not to? 1. Sentries are too slow to be able to follow your blink stalkers, so they limit their mobility if they are together. Sentries are better when you have mixed compositions, like for example if you go for immortals, you can add sentries. They won't decrease immortal movement while increasing it's effectiveness. In conclusion, if you get sentries, you limit stalker movement, unless you want to do that if you go for blink stalker immortal and attack with both mixed. 2. It's too hard to transition to void ray with this build, plus they are very expensive. Mothership is easier to transition and is less expensive. 3. 3 gases is enough to support 6 gate stalker production. You get the 4th gas when you start transitioning into colossus and templars along with your 3rd 2 gases. 4. It's quite hard to get that early burrow when you spend units to defend against the 1st push. Still if he gets it, you could try the early robo version I included in replay 10. 5. My mistake, should spend chrono more. No body is perfect. Kinda hard to do it since there's not a lot to spend it on. I guess workers, tech and upgrades should be the priorities. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
 Really like this build, completely takes zergs out of their comfort zone. | ||
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ma70
253 Posts
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Thylacine
Sweden882 Posts
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ma70
253 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:18 ma70 wrote: Loving the strats that move away from FFE....will try this and variations of it later Yes, I realize I am quoting myself, but I'm thinking of making a different style where it's sort of a 3 gate forge expand with a later nexus, and cancelling the nexus for a fun all-in push. Haha...well, I'll try to figure out the timings. Thanks for the basis though. | ||
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