[G] PvZ Adonminus Macro-Aggressive Style - Page 12

On April 17 2012 03:50 matrius wrote:
OK, I've been playing around with making some build orders in the same vein as the original one and the updated one that you posted, in hope to add something to the conversation. You make probes almost constantly, but there is up to 30 seconds idle time over the entire build. I personally like the first one better due to the photon cannon and sentry. I hope you like them! I have a feeling that the build orders would be difficult to do perfectly, but anyway, there you go...

Thanks again to Adonminus for the inspiration, and sharing of his approach with us in the first place!

#1 (this one is like the original, includes a photon cannon and also a sentry for safety)
9 Pylon
11 Chrono Nexus
12 Chrono Nexus
13 Forge
15 Assimilator
16 Pylon
16 Chrono Nexus
18 Photon Cannon
19 Gateway
20 Nexus
22 Cybernetics Core
22 Ground Weapons 1
26 3*Gateway
26 Warp Gate Transformation
26 Chrono Cybernetics Core
26 Zealot
30 Pylon
30 Chrono Cybernetics Core
32 Chrono Cybernetics Core
32 Sentry
34 Pylon
36 Chrono Cybernetics Core
36 3*Stalker
44 Chrono Cybernetics Core
44 Pylon
46 Zealot
48 Pylon
48 Chrono Gateway
49 Robotics Facility
50 4*Convert Gateway To Warp Gate
51 4*Zealot

Zealots warp in at 7:20 if you get 5 chrono's on the core, leaving you with 6 zealots, 3 stalkers and 1 sentry at 7:20 - you can obviously trade stalkers for zealots if you prefer.

#2 (like the updated build order from OP, no photon cannon, no sentry and less gas overall)
6 3*Probe
9 Pylon
9 2*Probe
11 Chrono Nexus
11 Probe
12 Chrono Nexus
12 Probe
13 Gateway
13 3*Probe
16 Pylon
16 2*Probe
18 Zealot
20 Assimilator
20 Probe
21 Nexus
21 Move Three Probes To Gas
21 2*Probe
23 Cybernetics Core
23 Probe
24 Forge
24 Probe
25 Pylon
25 Probe
26 Warp Gate Transformation
26 Chrono Cybernetics Core
26 Probe
27 Ground Weapons 1
27 2*Probe
29 Chrono Forge
29 Probe
30 3*Gateway
30 Zealot
32 Chrono Cybernetics Core
32 2*Probe
34 Chrono Cybernetics Core
34 Wait 1s
34 Probe
35 Zealot
37 Probe
38 Pylon
38 Probe
39 Stalker
41 Chrono Forge
41 2*Probe
43 2*Zealot
47 Probe
48 Wait 1s
48 Chrono Gateway
48 Pylon
48 Chrono Gateway
48 Probe
49 Chrono Forge
49 Probe
50 4*Convert Gateway To Warp Gate
50 Probe
51 Chrono Gateway
51 3*Stalker

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
7:03.18: 577M 66G 10E 57/ 60S
Income: 1412M 114G
Buildings: 2 Nexus 1 Assimilator 5 Pylon 4 Warp Gate 1 Forge 1 Cybernetics Core
Units: 37 Probe 5 Zealot 4 Stalker
Upgrades: Ground Weapons 1 Warp Gate Transformation

On April 19 2012 11:32 Thiole wrote:


the program you are using implies there is no travel time or scout, and you wont have enough zealots to deal with normal ling pressure, its good in theory though

On April 24 2012 03:26 wullull wrote:
How do I stop heavy ling pressure from 6-10 pool openings?

On April 24 2012 09:42 Wingblade wrote:


I would suggest walling off the top of your ramp when you see it, and chrono zealots. If your nexus is just started you can cancel right away or leave it till the last second to stall if they attack it.

On April 20 2012 00:01 Treehead wrote:


This would be a lot clearer if it were written in timing instead of supply, but since at one point you are making 2 zealots from gateways, I'm guessing you can delay a couple gateways to make the zealots earlier and still have them up for the warpgate finishing. I'm not sure, but I think I saw Tails doing this on his stream last night. I saw him attack at one point with only 1 gas using 4-5 zealots and 4-5 stalkers, but I wasn't looking at the game clock. Now, that I think back, his might have hit much later though - I think he had 5 gates.

The small amount of gas available in this build and others like it is scary, though. If he's going for 2-base pressure instead of fast 3-base, you'll probably only have enough gas for 2 sentries or a sentry and 2 stalkers. Typically, sentries are key in avoiding large damage during these 2-base pushes.

Edit: Have you tried to do this in game - or is this purely conjecture assuming the program is setup right?

On April 22 2012 03:22 AlphaDotCom wrote:
what do you do vs 3 hatch before pool with this, do u play normally? Im curious because i think it should be good vs your build since you cant block the hatch and I dont think you can punish it.

On April 26 2012 00:41 polysciguy wrote:
@op, how does this deal with the stephano style 12 minute roach max, im not sure ive seen it mentioned

On April 26 2012 02:04 Random_Guy09 wrote:


If you read the 7:10 push part it says that its ment to take out the 3rd which I think just voids the chance of 12 minute roach push if executed properly because it will force units instead of allowing the zerg to drone hard like stephano does. And the +2 blink stalkers will take out the amount of roaches the opponent can have because of the lost production of that 3rd base.

Please actually read the full thread before asking something like this. As the answer was in the explanation of the build and how its executed.

On April 26 2012 02:12 polysciguy wrote:


i have read the thread, if you'll notice ive posted on several pages throughout it. i also know that only a couple roaches need to be out at that 710 point to completely negate the pressure, you aren't pressuring with that many units and it is perfectly reasonable that a zerg can get 1-3 roaches out before it hits at which point you can't do much until the 11 minute timing.

i also read somewhere in the discussion thread on how to beat the stephano style roaches that some players are delaying the third slightly and are expanding behind roach pressure. and this build is designed to take advantage of a fast third with little defense not defendign pressure while hitting a third.

On April 26 2012 22:03 matrius wrote:
Skyro, why would you say the push is 10x stronger with sentries - wouldn't they slow the followup attack quite a bit? Secondly, don't blink stalkers provide enough of a tech edge to beat smaller numbers of roaches? I mean, 20 blink stalkers vs 25 roaches, the stalkers will win handily with proper micro/reinforcements.

Um, I'm guessing you would want to split up the roaches with some ff, blink stalkers back and finish off the first 1/2, and then finish the rest when the ff dissipate. Does that work out to be 10x better?

Thanks!

On April 27 2012 01:06 Skyro wrote:
Yes you use FF to split the roaches. You've never seen the 2-base +2 blink stalker/sentry pushes that every korean was doing back in the day and how to utilize FF vs roaches? That should be considered a basic skill every protoss should have.

And it doesn't really slow the follow-up much. My point was that if you were going all-in with this 2nd push, which IMO you should if you did manage to snipe the 3rd earlier, you might as well get your 4th gas and a 7th gate and add sentries into the mix. FYI 32 probes on minerals on 2 bases and 4 gas exactly supports 7-gate stalker production. So you get around 8 or so sentries early to build up their energy while you get your gates and tech up and when +2 and blink completes you warp in nothing but stalkers, and you also probably want to put a robo down for an observer as you move out in case of burrow.

If you don't manage to snipe their third though then I see more merit in using only blink stalker for the purpose of harassing and not going all-in on this push, since you can poke in and out with blink stalkers with minimal losses.

edit: Oh and in regards to +2 blink stalkers vs +1 roaches, +2 blink stalkers beat +1 roaches given equal resources with good micro/positioning, but if you don't snipe their 3rd by the time your +2 blink stalker timing hits they will be running on a full 3-base economy vs your 2-base, so he will simply have a much bigger army resource-wise. However if you do snipe their 3rd, IMO I think the follow-up blink stalker timing is virtually impossible to stop given proper micro/positioning. But of course good zergs will defend their 3rd most of the time.