EPT[G] PvZ Adonminus Macro-Aggressive Style - Page 10
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ma70
253 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On April 02 2012 22:22 matrius wrote: Hi, I'm very interested in the answer for this, as recently I've played a few games that involved getting overrun by roach spam, once with a nydus worm kicked in just for laughs. Thanks, Mark Nobody can help you unless you post a replay. Just saying "roach spam" is too vague. In regards to the why not SG instead of TC it's because the OP is playing a more aggressive style, which blink stalkers are better at. TC first styles transition into very strong +2/+3 colossus timings and are also safe vs. virtually anything midgame. And on most maps I personally find it easier to defend 3 bases with blink stalkers but that may be a playstyle thing. If you were playing a passive style with void rays to get your 3rd up relatively quickly is certainly viable, however you would need to grab an earlier 4th gas and mix in sentries (you can't use just void rays to defend as they don't kill roaches fast enough) just like how you would out of a FFE. Really though whatever opening you can do out of a FFE you can do out of this opening, the only difference really is that you have warp gate done sooner. | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On April 02 2012 23:54 ma70 wrote: I still really like this build because its basically "Sentryless". I wonder if there are more ways to go without Sentries in PvZ... On a note, I would still recommend getting sentries if zerg is doing something like the 3 base roach stephano play, so roaches won't that easily kill your stalkers and immortals. If not indeed, it's quite sentry less. For the guys who asked about the forge, I agree that you should plant a forge early if you scout early gas with late expo. And about 2 base plays, mostly they have no choice but to get mutalisks or infestors, else they will be behind. In this case you get the 4th gas early and use the extra gas on a stargate (you don't skip stalkers), chrono out a phoenix and scout the enemy, if you see mutas keep making phoenixes, if you see infestors continue your play and try to secure a 3rd while delaying the zerg's 4rd, while you can use the stargate for the mothership transition later in the game. | ||
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matrius
100 Posts
What do you usually do vs infestors? Templar? You didn't mention robo, shouldn't it happen before SG? And about 2 base plays, mostly they have no choice but to get mutalisks or infestors, else they will be behind. In this case you get the 4th gas early and use the extra gas on a stargate (you don't skip stalkers), chrono out a phoenix and scout the enemy, if you see mutas keep making phoenixes, if you see infestors continue your play and try to secure a 3rd while delaying the zerg's 4rd, while you can use the stargate for the mothership transition later in the game. | ||
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Thiole
United States18 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On April 05 2012 02:35 Thiole wrote: unless you start double stargate dont bother, youll be too far behind in phoenix count, just stick with templar and storm and blink stalkers, in fact, if you see mutas, just cannon up like 6 per base, then just go fuckin kill em I believe Hero in his Ro32 games he made a reactionary fleet beacon with range upgraded phoenixes which seemed to work pretty well. Haven't experimented with it myself yet however. | ||
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Poo
Canada536 Posts
tldr; I wouldn't recommend the use of a build like this unless you're sure you can get away with it (or your Z opponent doesn't understand 2b baneling busts kill this.) | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
Man, that's an excellent guide. Haven't lost a single of my PvZ since i started doing it. Mind you, it's only 3 games at diamond level though. And even more, what's excellent is the detailed build order and the timings provided. I used to FFE and do some kind of 4 gate +1 zealot pressure, but this one hits a 8:00, and thus, relied on my opponents not having roaches at 8:00. Now, through enjoyable practice, I can consistently hit at 7:15, and damn, that feels good. By the way, I wouldn't call this build gimmicky. It's pretty hard to scout (how many gas can the Zerg player reliably see among the 4 possible ones?), you do not have to commit (just check the 3rd with your scouting probe), and damn, it hits hard! Thanks Adonminus! | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13403 Posts
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NinjaMagic
Sweden83 Posts
On April 06 2012 07:17 ZeromuS wrote: Im currently watching orb learn how to do this build and the issue of defending an early pool (6,7 for example) came up. You don't seem to include a response to this strat in the op. I want to try to learn this but I would like to know how to hold an early pool before I make this my more standard PvZ opening personally. It happens to me in about 1/4 of my PvZs on ladder where I am (high diamond, low master) and would hate to auto lose if there isn't a good response with your build. Since you built your gate on the highground you could just add a core/forge to it + pylon and ur set. dont know if there is some other way to do it while maintaining your nexus/core on the lowground, but the forge/core addon to my gateway+pylon puts me way ahead | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13403 Posts
On April 06 2012 07:26 NinjaMagic wrote: Since you built your gate on the highground you could just add a core/forge to it + pylon and ur set. dont know if there is some other way to do it while maintaining your nexus/core on the lowground, but the forge/core addon to my gateway+pylon puts me way ahead But you don't scout until after the nexus right? So, it seems like it would be hard to hold a 6/7 pool reacting on only seeing the lings. Do you have any replays of this? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On April 06 2012 07:17 ZeromuS wrote: Im currently watching orb learn how to do this build and the issue of defending an early pool (6,7 for example) came up. You don't seem to include a response to this strat in the op. I want to try to learn this but I would like to know how to hold an early pool before I make this my more standard PvZ opening personally. It happens to me in about 1/4 of my PvZs on ladder where I am (high diamond, low master) and would hate to auto lose if there isn't a good response with your build. This opening is essentially the YufFE opening so defending various early timings can be found here - http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gate_Nexus_YufFE#Execution YufFE scouts after his nexus and if he spots lings on the way to his base he cancels and runs up his ramp. Personally I scout @ 12/13 with my gate probe to get more of a warning and don't have to cancel anything as I would spot a 6 pool before I throw down my nexus. Either way though since you made a pylon and gate at your main ramp you simply complete your wall-off and defend it how you normally would from a gate expand. | ||
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aznkukuboi
120 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
For 6 pool, you just make zealots and a forge, then continue with build. Use probes to defend the pylon powering the gateway. I never lose to 6 pool with this. I think the most dangerous and only all in which can do damage to this build is a baneling all in, but if scouted it can be stopped. I also checked orb's stream a bit since I heard that he tried out this build, I have to note that he needs to really improve his zealot timing, I am able to hit with 7 zealots at 7:00-7:10 currently with good chronos and early enough gateways (he always built the gateways late). He needs to be more aggressive with blink stalkers too, you attack with blink stalkers while making 3rd, he can't counter attack anyway since then he won't be able to defend blink stalkers. Almost forgot, I didn't say you should never use sentries, sentries are really good to hold stephano style and roachs in general. | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
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matrius
100 Posts
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(Z)SkrilLeX_vs_(P)Matrius/19174 So, my question is - if I know there are a lot of zerglings about, does that make the followup less effective in general? I always seem to have more success when I followup later on with immortals/sentry... | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:42 matrius wrote: I just played a game where I attacked somewhere around 8min (approximately) and took out his third (which was actually his natural because I briefly blocked his natural and then he created his 2nd hatch at his normal 3rd base, and THEN put down a 3rd hatch at his natural). However, I saw a lot of larva used up for what ended up being zerglings. I got the hatchery before they could spawn, but then was overrun. OK, np, I was still ahead and it was 2 base to 2 base at this point. I decided to be aggressive and try to followup with zealots and some stalkers. The followup was not successful, and I don't think it would have been successful even if I had blink. It appears to me to bea waste of resources because of all the zerglings he had created, and some roaches to compliment, and he easily repelled the followup. The rest of the game is irrelevant, but always happy to hear critique if you would like... btw - I already know that I failed to get blink and +2, just my lack of skillz... http://sc2rep.com/replays/(Z)SkrilLeX_vs_(P)Matrius/19174 So, my question is - if I know there are a lot of zerglings about, does that make the followup less effective in general? I always seem to have more success when I followup later on with immortals/sentry... The follow-up absolutely relies on blink and +2. Don't push out without both of them done. If they make a lot of lings make more zealots. | ||
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