• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:41
CEST 04:41
KST 11:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting5[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)75Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting The New Patch Killed Mech! Ladder Impersonation (only maybe) Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Tenacious Turtle Tussle WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw After 20 seasons we have a lot of great maps Whose hotkey signature is this? BW caster Sayle BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal A [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1957 users

[G] Avilo's TvZ Lategame Raven Transition - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
February 26 2012 18:13 GMT
#81
On February 26 2012 08:27 Facultyadjutant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 06:20 avilo wrote:
On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.


You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen


My guide is not a "raven build" nor a "raven opener" it's just describing raven usage in lategame tvz whether you opened bio or mech or what not and how to use them against infestor/brood/corruptor and tech switches.

There is no such thing as a "raven build" in terms of opening with mass ravens...and that indeed would be a horrible build. Ravens are a unit you add later on in the game aka transition to. You do not start off the game with ravens being your entire army. Yes, there are some literal builds that center around getting a raven early, like in TvP/TvT, that's not what this guide is about.


Oh my mistake, I was so caught up in what you were doing on ladder where you opened 2 starport w/ techlab

For efforts in furthering ravens lategame tvz I applaud and couldn't agree more in its strength

If you read the actual title or ANY of the contents of the OP, you would have known this from the start.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
Mayd
Profile Joined August 2011
Finland251 Posts
February 26 2012 18:27 GMT
#82
I guess I'm looking forward to see raven nerf in the next patch.
유리 | 티파니 | 리지
aeoliant
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada361 Posts
February 26 2012 18:39 GMT
#83
oh righttt I totally forgot about ravens HSM
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 19:32:32
February 26 2012 19:23 GMT
#84
On February 25 2012 14:53 architecture wrote:
Let me throw in some math to clarify the efficiency of Ravens.

PDD is best against high damage units. They are the best against vikings, when a single PDD blocks 560 damage. So Raven is better than a BC in TvT. Unfortunately, corruptors are low damage, high HP units, so a PDD only blocks 280 damage.

So for 200 gas and 1m45s (1m build time + 45s energy accum) you only block 280 damage, without dealing damage. I think it's clear that PDD is not particularly efficient use of resources. It takes a whopping THREE minutes to get another PDD. Now, if the Z does let you accumulate enough for 2 PDDs on a Raven, then the Raven will represent essentially 4 food. In either case, not anything to write home about.

Now let's talk about HSM. HSM is actually passably decent and the only redeeming spell in this matchup, despite ridiculous cost+time. So while it takes 2.5m to get a HSM, for the FOOD, it does a good amount of damage, more than you would expect a viking to do. Imagine a HSM doing about 200 damage through AOE, a viking would have to get off 10 shots or survive 20s to do so. HSM is all frontloaded damage, that allows you to clean up with thors. Some number of Ravens with HSM will make it so that manythor+fewviking can deal with any air threat.

And like you said, it frees up the rest of the ground army + simcity to deal with infestor/ultra.

PDD is better vs Corrupters than Vikings. Vikings fire 2 x 12dmg, Corrupter is 1 x 20dmg. So A PDD would absord 240 Viking damage but 20 x 20 = 400 Corrupter damage.

Edit:
Corrupter damage is 14 +6 to massive. So a PDD would absorb 280dmg.
Vikings are 10 +4 to armored x 2. So a PDD would absorb 280 damage, the same as Corrupters. So PDD has the same effeciency vs both.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
February 26 2012 19:43 GMT
#85
On February 25 2012 20:05 maracuja wrote:
You simply just can not defeat ultra/ling with about 50 supply in ravens and vikings, which you need to prevent the zerg from getting back air control.
Autoturrets vs 3/3 ultras? Come on.


Isn't the point of the ravens that you won't need 50 supply of Vikings and Ravens?
RaiD.RaynoR
Profile Joined February 2012
United States294 Posts
February 26 2012 20:09 GMT
#86
Ravens are useful there is no doubt... but securing that many bases for the gas is unlikely to happen against a decent zerg. This strategy is very viable when the maps are split and the Z becomes immobile. I just go for a 3 base timing before they get BL with marine tank thor.
Redemption is the consequence of forgiveness
JohnPaulSteve
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa5 Posts
February 26 2012 20:11 GMT
#87
1.4.4: Raven food cost increased from 2 to 3.
hangene92
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada258 Posts
February 26 2012 20:19 GMT
#88
Good post avilo!
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one"
DawN883
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden558 Posts
February 26 2012 20:34 GMT
#89
Ravens shine vs players that go for infestors. HSM 1-shots an infestor and detection is good against burrowed infestors.
If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-27 10:01:02
February 27 2012 10:00 GMT
#90
More replays post patch would be nice, hopefully something similar is possible in TvP, yet the hopes are low..
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
February 27 2012 10:04 GMT
#91
On February 26 2012 00:09 joeschmo wrote:
For a strategy to be viable, it must work at the top level of play. The NA Grandmaster league is not the top level. GSL Code S is the top level. Sure, Mech might work vs Protoss at the Silver league, we wouldn't consider it viable though. I'm not impressed with the Zerg competition either, maybe go on the Korean ladder and practice it. The strategy itself shows promise & it would be fortunate if it worked out.


MorroW raped the crap out of Leenock with HSM on Metropolis
Jacen88
Profile Joined October 2010
74 Posts
February 27 2012 15:22 GMT
#92
You can cc first into gas before barracks vs gm zergs?
How do handle early agression, or punish super greedy play?
ddrddrddrddr
Profile Joined August 2010
1344 Posts
February 27 2012 16:13 GMT
#93
O look, terran finds another unit that they considered horrible but turns out to be viable all along after being forced to adapt. Always knew that ravens had a place in the terran death ball. Don't know whether to enjoy the "I told you so" or to quit sc2 for good at the new influx of raven play bs that I can't scout and but still have to deal with.
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
February 27 2012 16:35 GMT
#94
On February 28 2012 01:13 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
O look, terran finds another unit that they considered horrible but turns out to be viable all along after being forced to adapt. Always knew that ravens had a place in the terran death ball. Don't know whether to enjoy the "I told you so" or to quit sc2 for good at the new influx of raven play bs that I can't scout and but still have to deal with.

You really think you would be able to scout a Raven transition? Of all possible ways to whine about Raven play (which is silly in itself) saying that it un scoutable is unbelievably stupid.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
statikg
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada930 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-27 17:02:13
February 27 2012 17:01 GMT
#95
On February 28 2012 01:13 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
O look, terran finds another unit that they considered horrible but turns out to be viable all along after being forced to adapt. Always knew that ravens had a place in the terran death ball. Don't know whether to enjoy the "I told you so" or to quit sc2 for good at the new influx of raven play bs that I can't scout and but still have to deal with.


Haha I also thought that was funny. Unfortunately though I think its just going to even further steepen the terran "mastery curve".
Mowr
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden791 Posts
February 27 2012 17:13 GMT
#96
On February 27 2012 05:34 StimFesT wrote:
Ravens shine vs players that go for infestors. HSM 1-shots an infestor and detection is good against burrowed infestors.

Yes, assuming he does not use the 9 range fungal against the 6 range HSM.
Kill one man and they'll call you a murderer. Kill an army of men and they'll call you a general. But kill all men and they'll call you a god.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
February 27 2012 17:27 GMT
#97
Great post Avilo! Will watch the replays ASAP.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Jaegeru
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom676 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-27 21:45:34
February 27 2012 20:46 GMT
#98
Great write-up avilo, I will definatly be watching the replays and trying this out soon!
MVP on winning his Fourth GSL - "Yeah I know the routine, take the flowers and cheque, I will kiss the trophy for the photo"
saaaa
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany419 Posts
February 27 2012 21:42 GMT
#99
@ avilo

i watched your stream a few times the last days and recognized that you go for fast banshees and directly into raven and not directly into mech.

Why don't you do a "normal" mech opener and after this into mech and then add the raven? I don't like the raven so early and go for the mech army first..do you think that the raven play isn't possible then?
zmansman17
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2567 Posts
February 27 2012 21:45 GMT
#100
This is Awesome Avilo. I started monobattles to start mastering shift clicking HSMs and PDDs with the Raven. I think the excess gas that tends to build up in TvZ can now be utilized.
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
PiGosaur Cup #53
Liquipedia
OSC
23:00
OSC Masters Cup #150 Qual #1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 138
Ketroc 39
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 1296
Leta 924
Sharp 66
Noble 27
Icarus 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever782
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 703
ScreaM324
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K266
PGG 98
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox438
Other Games
summit1g7671
shahzam567
WinterStarcraft426
C9.Mang0297
ViBE221
Maynarde145
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick6177
Counter-Strike
PGL168
Other Games
BasetradeTV109
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV826
League of Legends
• Stunt300
• HappyZerGling175
Other Games
• Scarra610
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
7h 19m
OSC
9h 19m
Wardi Open
1d 8h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Safe House 2
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Safe House 2
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.