• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:57
CEST 18:57
KST 01:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th153Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser The Korean Terminology Thread
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streaming Impacts Game P…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7512 users

[G] Avilo's TvZ Lategame Raven Transition - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
OmegaKnetus
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany431 Posts
February 25 2012 21:19 GMT
#61
On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.


You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen


well, you don't start out with ravens, you go mech or bio/mech and transition into ravens. Those games of him going cc first into raven is just screwing around and trying new things
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
February 25 2012 21:20 GMT
#62
On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.


You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen


My guide is not a "raven build" nor a "raven opener" it's just describing raven usage in lategame tvz whether you opened bio or mech or what not and how to use them against infestor/brood/corruptor and tech switches.

There is no such thing as a "raven build" in terms of opening with mass ravens...and that indeed would be a horrible build. Ravens are a unit you add later on in the game aka transition to. You do not start off the game with ravens being your entire army. Yes, there are some literal builds that center around getting a raven early, like in TvP/TvT, that's not what this guide is about.
Sup
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-25 21:29:31
February 25 2012 21:28 GMT
#63
whats that.... ?

is that the faint sound of....

yup that's the sound of dustin browder saying "gotta nerf those ravens".
AndreiDaGiant
Profile Joined October 2010
United States394 Posts
February 25 2012 21:37 GMT
#64
yea this is the future until blizzard decides to nerf ravens
Terran Metal for the Win
Thylacine
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden882 Posts
February 25 2012 21:56 GMT
#65
On February 26 2012 06:28 shizna wrote:
whats that.... ?

is that the faint sound of....

yup that's the sound of dustin browder saying "gotta nerf those ravens".


Don't give him hints then.
What you're looking at could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare. It isn't. It's the beginning. Introducing Mr. John Valentine, air traveler. His destination: the Twilight Zone...
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
February 25 2012 22:17 GMT
#66
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?
OrangeApples
Profile Joined January 2011
137 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-25 23:20:26
February 25 2012 23:12 GMT
#67
On February 26 2012 07:17 Dvriel wrote:
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?


Its incredibly gas intensive, so chances are you won't see this unless a game drags out for like 30+ mins and terran has a good foothold on eco.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
February 25 2012 23:15 GMT
#68
On February 26 2012 07:17 Dvriel wrote:
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?

This is late-game stuff when you're pretty much near maxed and around 4-5 bases with over like a million floating resources
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
February 25 2012 23:27 GMT
#69
On February 26 2012 06:20 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.


You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen


My guide is not a "raven build" nor a "raven opener" it's just describing raven usage in lategame tvz whether you opened bio or mech or what not and how to use them against infestor/brood/corruptor and tech switches.

There is no such thing as a "raven build" in terms of opening with mass ravens...and that indeed would be a horrible build. Ravens are a unit you add later on in the game aka transition to. You do not start off the game with ravens being your entire army. Yes, there are some literal builds that center around getting a raven early, like in TvP/TvT, that's not what this guide is about.


Oh my mistake, I was so caught up in what you were doing on ladder where you opened 2 starport w/ techlab

For efforts in furthering ravens lategame tvz I applaud and couldn't agree more in its strength
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
darktosix
Profile Joined December 2011
8 Posts
February 26 2012 04:45 GMT
#70
avilo thank you for this information and since i can only use ghosts to emp the infestors and/or queens and since i i suck at mirco with vikings this helped me a lot
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
February 26 2012 05:02 GMT
#71
I was just curious about one small point: do you prefer, or have you considered building 2 starports early instead of reactor+port? It could make transitions easier.

Otherwise, I've began experimenting with Raven's in TvZ, as I too enjoy using them. For he who said that much supply of raven/viking can't handle the ultra/ling switch, I would think you'd at least have some map control planetary fortresses in your build, and even though uncontested ultra/ling shreds those, it gives way more value to your siege tanks placed behind. In between those mentioned tech switches, extra raven energy can sometimes be used for auto-turret harassment, plus those are also useful pathing blockers which can help vs the ling/ultra switch.

Time to check out a replay or two, thank you.
DMKraft
Profile Joined December 2010
476 Posts
February 26 2012 05:12 GMT
#72
Great now Ravens will be nerded, thanks Avilo
k1ruaa
Profile Joined September 2011
17 Posts
February 26 2012 10:11 GMT
#73
I enjoyed your tuto, as I enjoy watching it live on your stream. Great job thanks!
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
February 26 2012 10:33 GMT
#74
Now make it work against anyone good ._.
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 26 2012 13:43 GMT
#75
Would be interessing to get MajOr opinion on this, and his experience.
Because he's playing Turtle mech into ravens quite a lot on the Korean ladder these days.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
February 26 2012 13:49 GMT
#76
For those sayingRavens will be nerfed, if it does happen again, I will switch to Z or P seriously lol.

Yayyyy still happy to see Ravens being used. I always knew that Ravens are a good unit, it seems to me that people just NEED to see a pro/top level player introduce the build first for them to finally use it.
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
February 26 2012 14:13 GMT
#77
On February 25 2012 23:24 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2012 23:11 Elldar wrote:
Except the balance whining it was a good thread.

Agreed, I like the concept but I also wouldn't call it "Avilo's" late-game raven transition, I'm certain there have been others with much the same thought-process.

Tang! That's hypocratic

Yeah ravens kick ass if you can get them. I would argue that three ravens vs most any composition are useful. And, a gon of them is a ton of damage and protection. Its hard to lose ravens easily cuz of pdd and hsm
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
February 26 2012 15:14 GMT
#78
Purely for fighting BL/Infestor, this makes sense. As was said you still want around 10 ghosts to deal with infestors in general, but you obviously also have to prepare for the common Ultra/Bane/Infestor transition. HSM would be pretty key for hitting baneling or infestor clumps, so you should avoid using up all of your energy as it won't recharge in time otherwise.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 26 2012 15:41 GMT
#79
From experience, EMP infestor is hard because of overseer not being psyonic ( while being caster unit -_- )
I wish Blizzard thought about that ahead.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ThisisRaider
Profile Joined March 2011
Namibia153 Posts
February 26 2012 17:58 GMT
#80
I dont like your lategame tvp as much, I prefer Thorzains mentality towards it. This however is pretty badass. kudos!
Blueflame helions is not a good choice unless you go mech (which is not a good choice).
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeague wk 2 PTB vs POG
Freeedom25
Liquipedia
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 2
uThermal1816
Serral1581
RotterdaM830
TaKeTV 491
mouzHeroMarine284
SteadfastSC200
IndyStarCraft 197
LamboSC254
sc2solar51
Shameless25
Classic24
SpiritSC210
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 1816
Serral 1581
RotterdaM 830
mouzHeroMarine 284
SteadfastSC 200
IndyStarCraft 197
LamboSC2 54
sc2solar 51
BRAT_OK 42
Classic 24
SpiritSC2 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26973
Shuttle 1903
EffOrt 1139
Leta 221
ggaemo 66
Hyun 53
Movie 49
Barracks 48
Pusan 37
Rock 29
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 27
Terrorterran 23
GoRush 19
IntoTheRainbow 14
soO 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Dota 2
Dendi2304
syndereN611
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m8326
Other Games
gofns33944
tarik_tv8537
Grubby3045
singsing2600
Mlord634
crisheroes274
XaKoH 157
SHIN 153
KnowMe90
ArmadaUGS89
Mew2King50
Trikslyr30
MindelVK2
B2W.Neo0
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1104
BasetradeTV228
gamesdonequick168
StarCraft 2
angryscii 22
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 14
• Adnapsc2 2
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach42
• HerbMon 16
• FirePhoenix8
• Michael_bg 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3117
Other Games
• Shiphtur125
Upcoming Events
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2h 3m
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 3m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
22h 3m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 2h
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
1d 18h
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
OSC
5 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.