• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:43
CET 20:43
KST 04:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0220LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)25Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker10PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)13
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Terran Scanner Sweep Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Revival: Season 4 Korea Qualifier (Feb 14) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Which units you wish saw more use in the game? StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Ask and answer stupid questions here! US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ADHD And Gaming Addiction…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1997 users

[G] Avilo's TvZ Lategame Raven Transition - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
OmegaKnetus
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany431 Posts
February 25 2012 21:19 GMT
#61
On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.


You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen


well, you don't start out with ravens, you go mech or bio/mech and transition into ravens. Those games of him going cc first into raven is just screwing around and trying new things
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
February 25 2012 21:20 GMT
#62
On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.


You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen


My guide is not a "raven build" nor a "raven opener" it's just describing raven usage in lategame tvz whether you opened bio or mech or what not and how to use them against infestor/brood/corruptor and tech switches.

There is no such thing as a "raven build" in terms of opening with mass ravens...and that indeed would be a horrible build. Ravens are a unit you add later on in the game aka transition to. You do not start off the game with ravens being your entire army. Yes, there are some literal builds that center around getting a raven early, like in TvP/TvT, that's not what this guide is about.
Sup
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-25 21:29:31
February 25 2012 21:28 GMT
#63
whats that.... ?

is that the faint sound of....

yup that's the sound of dustin browder saying "gotta nerf those ravens".
AndreiDaGiant
Profile Joined October 2010
United States394 Posts
February 25 2012 21:37 GMT
#64
yea this is the future until blizzard decides to nerf ravens
Terran Metal for the Win
Thylacine
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden882 Posts
February 25 2012 21:56 GMT
#65
On February 26 2012 06:28 shizna wrote:
whats that.... ?

is that the faint sound of....

yup that's the sound of dustin browder saying "gotta nerf those ravens".


Don't give him hints then.
What you're looking at could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare. It isn't. It's the beginning. Introducing Mr. John Valentine, air traveler. His destination: the Twilight Zone...
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
February 25 2012 22:17 GMT
#66
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?
OrangeApples
Profile Joined January 2011
137 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-25 23:20:26
February 25 2012 23:12 GMT
#67
On February 26 2012 07:17 Dvriel wrote:
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?


Its incredibly gas intensive, so chances are you won't see this unless a game drags out for like 30+ mins and terran has a good foothold on eco.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
February 25 2012 23:15 GMT
#68
On February 26 2012 07:17 Dvriel wrote:
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?

This is late-game stuff when you're pretty much near maxed and around 4-5 bases with over like a million floating resources
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
February 25 2012 23:27 GMT
#69
On February 26 2012 06:20 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.


You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen


My guide is not a "raven build" nor a "raven opener" it's just describing raven usage in lategame tvz whether you opened bio or mech or what not and how to use them against infestor/brood/corruptor and tech switches.

There is no such thing as a "raven build" in terms of opening with mass ravens...and that indeed would be a horrible build. Ravens are a unit you add later on in the game aka transition to. You do not start off the game with ravens being your entire army. Yes, there are some literal builds that center around getting a raven early, like in TvP/TvT, that's not what this guide is about.


Oh my mistake, I was so caught up in what you were doing on ladder where you opened 2 starport w/ techlab

For efforts in furthering ravens lategame tvz I applaud and couldn't agree more in its strength
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
darktosix
Profile Joined December 2011
8 Posts
February 26 2012 04:45 GMT
#70
avilo thank you for this information and since i can only use ghosts to emp the infestors and/or queens and since i i suck at mirco with vikings this helped me a lot
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
February 26 2012 05:02 GMT
#71
I was just curious about one small point: do you prefer, or have you considered building 2 starports early instead of reactor+port? It could make transitions easier.

Otherwise, I've began experimenting with Raven's in TvZ, as I too enjoy using them. For he who said that much supply of raven/viking can't handle the ultra/ling switch, I would think you'd at least have some map control planetary fortresses in your build, and even though uncontested ultra/ling shreds those, it gives way more value to your siege tanks placed behind. In between those mentioned tech switches, extra raven energy can sometimes be used for auto-turret harassment, plus those are also useful pathing blockers which can help vs the ling/ultra switch.

Time to check out a replay or two, thank you.
DMKraft
Profile Joined December 2010
476 Posts
February 26 2012 05:12 GMT
#72
Great now Ravens will be nerded, thanks Avilo
k1ruaa
Profile Joined September 2011
17 Posts
February 26 2012 10:11 GMT
#73
I enjoyed your tuto, as I enjoy watching it live on your stream. Great job thanks!
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
February 26 2012 10:33 GMT
#74
Now make it work against anyone good ._.
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 26 2012 13:43 GMT
#75
Would be interessing to get MajOr opinion on this, and his experience.
Because he's playing Turtle mech into ravens quite a lot on the Korean ladder these days.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
February 26 2012 13:49 GMT
#76
For those sayingRavens will be nerfed, if it does happen again, I will switch to Z or P seriously lol.

Yayyyy still happy to see Ravens being used. I always knew that Ravens are a good unit, it seems to me that people just NEED to see a pro/top level player introduce the build first for them to finally use it.
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
February 26 2012 14:13 GMT
#77
On February 25 2012 23:24 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2012 23:11 Elldar wrote:
Except the balance whining it was a good thread.

Agreed, I like the concept but I also wouldn't call it "Avilo's" late-game raven transition, I'm certain there have been others with much the same thought-process.

Tang! That's hypocratic

Yeah ravens kick ass if you can get them. I would argue that three ravens vs most any composition are useful. And, a gon of them is a ton of damage and protection. Its hard to lose ravens easily cuz of pdd and hsm
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
February 26 2012 15:14 GMT
#78
Purely for fighting BL/Infestor, this makes sense. As was said you still want around 10 ghosts to deal with infestors in general, but you obviously also have to prepare for the common Ultra/Bane/Infestor transition. HSM would be pretty key for hitting baneling or infestor clumps, so you should avoid using up all of your energy as it won't recharge in time otherwise.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 26 2012 15:41 GMT
#79
From experience, EMP infestor is hard because of overseer not being psyonic ( while being caster unit -_- )
I wish Blizzard thought about that ahead.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ThisisRaider
Profile Joined March 2011
Namibia153 Posts
February 26 2012 17:58 GMT
#80
I dont like your lategame tvp as much, I prefer Thorzains mentality towards it. This however is pretty badass. kudos!
Blueflame helions is not a good choice unless you go mech (which is not a good choice).
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
18:00
S4 Europe Server Qualifier
IndyStarCraft 264
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
16:55
FSL TeamLeague S10: ASH vs POG
Freeedom25
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 380
IndyStarCraft 264
BRAT_OK 89
EmSc Tv 39
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2190
firebathero 188
Hm[arnc] 27
nyoken 26
Dota 2
febbydoto13
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m4288
byalli1178
Dendi442
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King117
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor569
MindelVK21
Other Games
gofns22473
Grubby5362
FrodaN3974
Mlord699
KnowMe491
Liquid`Hasu333
ToD249
Trikslyr83
Livibee35
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL21366
Other Games
EGCTV1849
gamesdonequick1082
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 39
EmSc2Tv 39
angryscii 20
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 54
• Shameless 31
• Airneanach15
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 33
• FirePhoenix4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota253
League of Legends
• Nemesis7897
• Shiphtur656
Other Games
• imaqtpie2095
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
17m
Replay Cast
4h 17m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 17m
LiuLi Cup
15h 17m
Maru vs Reynor
Serral vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
22h 17m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Wardi Open
1d 16h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 21h
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.