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On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.
You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen
well, you don't start out with ravens, you go mech or bio/mech and transition into ravens. Those games of him going cc first into raven is just screwing around and trying new things
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On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.
You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen
My guide is not a "raven build" nor a "raven opener" it's just describing raven usage in lategame tvz whether you opened bio or mech or what not and how to use them against infestor/brood/corruptor and tech switches.
There is no such thing as a "raven build" in terms of opening with mass ravens...and that indeed would be a horrible build. Ravens are a unit you add later on in the game aka transition to. You do not start off the game with ravens being your entire army. Yes, there are some literal builds that center around getting a raven early, like in TvP/TvT, that's not what this guide is about.
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whats that.... ?
is that the faint sound of....
yup that's the sound of dustin browder saying "gotta nerf those ravens".
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yea this is the future until blizzard decides to nerf ravens
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On February 26 2012 06:28 shizna wrote:
whats that.... ?
is that the faint sound of....
yup that's the sound of dustin browder saying "gotta nerf those ravens".
Don't give him hints then.
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Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?
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On February 26 2012 07:17 Dvriel wrote:
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?
Its incredibly gas intensive, so chances are you won't see this unless a game drags out for like 30+ mins and terran has a good foothold on eco.
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On February 26 2012 07:17 Dvriel wrote:
Is this really possible?I mean in standart TvZ,when Marines,Tanks and Medivacs are usuall stuff.Is really possible to get all this research? Think about it: ghost Moebius: 100 100.Ghost Cloak 150 150. Corvid REactor 150 150.Seaker Missile another 150 150.And all about same time?When must T make Ghost Academy?After,meanwhile or before Starport+Lab?
Arent this too many resources?
This is late-game stuff when you're pretty much near maxed and around 4-5 bases with over like a million floating resources
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On February 26 2012 06:20 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 05:48 Facultyadjutant wrote:
From a zerg pov Its easily countered by mass muta and just expand, basically everywhere - Its like playing mech but you can expand even more. I still just don't see it viable @.@ - Ravens as an opener feels so off, its lovely late game but against competent zergs it should be shut down insanely hard.
You just can't pressure multiple hatcheries from zergs of what I have seen My guide is not a "raven build" nor a "raven opener" it's just describing raven usage in lategame tvz whether you opened bio or mech or what not and how to use them against infestor/brood/corruptor and tech switches. There is no such thing as a "raven build" in terms of opening with mass ravens...and that indeed would be a horrible build. Ravens are a unit you add later on in the game aka transition to. You do not start off the game with ravens being your entire army. Yes, there are some literal builds that center around getting a raven early, like in TvP/TvT, that's not what this guide is about.
Oh my mistake, I was so caught up in what you were doing on ladder where you opened 2 starport w/ techlab
For efforts in furthering ravens lategame tvz I applaud and couldn't agree more in its strength
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avilo thank you for this information and since i can only use ghosts to emp the infestors and/or queens and since i i suck at mirco with vikings this helped me a lot
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I was just curious about one small point: do you prefer, or have you considered building 2 starports early instead of reactor+port? It could make transitions easier.
Otherwise, I've began experimenting with Raven's in TvZ, as I too enjoy using them. For he who said that much supply of raven/viking can't handle the ultra/ling switch, I would think you'd at least have some map control planetary fortresses in your build, and even though uncontested ultra/ling shreds those, it gives way more value to your siege tanks placed behind. In between those mentioned tech switches, extra raven energy can sometimes be used for auto-turret harassment, plus those are also useful pathing blockers which can help vs the ling/ultra switch.
Time to check out a replay or two, thank you.
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Great now Ravens will be nerded, thanks Avilo 
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I enjoyed your tuto, as I enjoy watching it live on your stream. Great job thanks!
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Now make it work against anyone good ._.
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Would be interessing to get MajOr opinion on this, and his experience.
Because he's playing Turtle mech into ravens quite a lot on the Korean ladder these days.
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For those sayingRavens will be nerfed, if it does happen again, I will switch to Z or P seriously lol.
Yayyyy still happy to see Ravens being used. I always knew that Ravens are a good unit, it seems to me that people just NEED to see a pro/top level player introduce the build first for them to finally use it.
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On February 25 2012 23:24 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 23:11 Elldar wrote:
Except the balance whining it was a good thread. Agreed, I like the concept but I also wouldn't call it "Avilo's" late-game raven transition, I'm certain there have been others with much the same thought-process.
Tang! That's hypocratic
Yeah ravens kick ass if you can get them. I would argue that three ravens vs most any composition are useful. And, a gon of them is a ton of damage and protection. Its hard to lose ravens easily cuz of pdd and hsm
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Purely for fighting BL/Infestor, this makes sense. As was said you still want around 10 ghosts to deal with infestors in general, but you obviously also have to prepare for the common Ultra/Bane/Infestor transition. HSM would be pretty key for hitting baneling or infestor clumps, so you should avoid using up all of your energy as it won't recharge in time otherwise.
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From experience, EMP infestor is hard because of overseer not being psyonic ( while being caster unit -_- )
I wish Blizzard thought about that ahead.
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I dont like your lategame tvp as much, I prefer Thorzains mentality towards it. This however is pretty badass. kudos!
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EPT
