EPT[G] Avilo's TvZ Lategame Raven Transition - Page 7
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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cydial
United States750 Posts
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RamonMcGrady
33 Posts
Well written, avilo. Keep them coming! | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
Also I think the auto turret should be changed, it needs a higher casting range and/or no building placement requirement, so the raven has another good spell when PDD is useless (against ling infestor etc) without relying on a 125 energy spell like HSM for which you rarely have enough energy. As it is now autoturret is just wasted energy in a lot of circumstances and because of the stupid building requirement you waste a lot of APM on actions that would be better used for splitting your marines, because you want to place the autoturret but the lings run everywhere and block it. It NEVER works in a fight, its bullshit. The Auto Turret spell makes no sense at all, it can't move, has barely higher dps than infested terrans (which can move and are less expensive energy wise, 9.3 DPS for 25 energy against 10 DPS for 50 energy) and its only strength is that it can tank a lot of damage, but how should it take damage when you can never place it in a fight and have to wait for the opponent to attack into it (which they never do). All it is used for is to abuse imbalanced maps because you can block ramps with it, but nowadays there aren't any bad maps anymore where you can hit expansions with siege tanks from the high ground or something like that and even if there are just building 2 or 3 bunkers is usually the better option. | ||
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acrimoneyius
United States983 Posts
On February 28 2012 01:13 ddrddrddrddr wrote: O look, terran finds another unit that they considered horrible but turns out to be viable all along after being forced to adapt. Always knew that ravens had a place in the terran death ball. Don't know whether to enjoy the "I told you so" or to quit sc2 for good at the new influx of raven play bs that I can't scout and but still have to deal with. Btw if you read the guide or had any experience with playing terran, you'd realize you still need to use ghosts in combination with ravens (EMP Infestors = necessary). Just another control group to add, no biggie. It wasn't like terran late game armies were already difficult enough to control. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On shakuras where you can split map and make PF it works though. But since most of the ladder maps are open it is very hard to stop the Zerg late game army and Ravens do not really protect you against the tech switch. My win ratio against Zerg late game was about 30% and with the Ghost nerf it dropped to 10%. Ravens counter BrooLords but are about as useful against Ultras as Vikings are. | ||
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awakenx
United States341 Posts
On March 03 2012 09:24 MockHamill wrote: I have found that this strat works to some degree against BroodLords. But the problem is that Ravens are close to useless when he switches to 15 Ultras and take out expansions after expansion while you scramble to catch up with your army. On shakuras where you can split map and make PF it works though. But since most of the ladder maps are open it is very hard to stop the Zerg late game army and Ravens do not really protect you against the tech switch. My win ratio against Zerg late game was about 30% and with the Ghost nerf it dropped to 10%. Ravens counter BrooLords but are about as useful against Ultras as Vikings are. Yeah, Ultras still really hard to deal with, especially after they lose all their ultras they dump all their minerals into a billion lings, which easily cleans up MMM like a joke :/ TvZ late game is a nightmare... | ||
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neozxa
Indonesia545 Posts
But should pro Terrans start doing this on major tourneys such as MLG, GSL,etc. I can kinda envision this happening: Patch 1.4.4.= TERRAN Raven Seeker Missles now deal 50 damage vs Massive. Damage against other types of units stays the same. ...and the list goes on. But nevertheless, Ravens are a really good support unit in TvZ. Especially their Seeker Missles which takes out units like flies. Thanks for sharing this guide with us! | ||
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halfies
United Kingdom327 Posts
the word your looking for is abused but its a good guide, i do hope more terrans start using ravens, it has always seemed logical to me | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
My win ratio against Zerg late game was about 30% and with the Ghost nerf it dropped to 10%. Ravens counter BrooLords but are about as useful against Ultras as Vikings are. Well it's a good thing marauders make ultras look like stuffed animals. I hate to say this kind of thing, but look at polt at ASUS ROG. All marauders once he saw the hive switch, regardless of BL or ultras coming. | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
On March 05 2012 19:56 iAmJeffReY wrote: Well it's a good thing marauders make ultras look like stuffed animals. I hate to say this kind of thing, but look at polt at ASUS ROG. All marauders once he saw the hive switch, regardless of BL or ultras coming. like antiga vs stephano, where polt played pretty much a perfect game and lost because he didnt blindly make marauders... that's when he realized, "wow this matchup is dumb, guess i gotta blindly make marauders in every game".  | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
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LavaLava
United States235 Posts
On March 05 2012 18:46 neozxa wrote: Patch 1.4.4.= TERRAN Raven Seeker Missles now deal 50 damage vs Massive. Damage against other types of units stays the same. This bolded bit is where the comparison to the last patch breaks down. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
So in a perfect world I want to mass up Thor/Hellion/Raven and A-move with my 150 pop army while seeker missiling everything. In reality, most Zerg counter you mid game by going mass Roaches. Roaches rape Thor based armies for cost in mid game but loses due to pop inefficiency late game. So how do you get to the late game intact? I see 2 major paths: 1) Massing Tank/Hellion mid game and only getting Thors for anti-muta while gradually transitioning into more Thors and less tanks late game. Problem is that if you misjudge the number of Mutas and have too few Thors you lose the game. 2) Marine/Tank mid game and gradually replacing the marines with Thors. Here you are safer against mass muta but have a weaker late game army due to having mass marines that you need to kill off before late game. You are also forced to upgrade 2 unit lines instead of 1. However I am not sure which of those 2 are the best way to get from mid game to late game. | ||
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sherry.michael
China6 Posts
otherwise,anyone could send me some replay about this build? thanks | ||
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Rick Deckard
90 Posts
Kudo's to Avilo for trying to find a viable late game TvZ play style. Seems that many Terran's have given up on late game TvZ and rely on some form of all-in' now. | ||
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Christolight
United States46 Posts
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babyToSS
233 Posts
Edit: Ravens also don't need to wait for air weapon/armor upgardes to be effective. So they are also a viable option to switch into air late game. | ||
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babyToSS
233 Posts
On February 27 2012 05:09 RaiD.RaynoR wrote: Ravens are useful there is no doubt... but securing that many bases for the gas is unlikely to happen against a decent zerg. This strategy is very viable when the maps are split and the Z becomes immobile. I just go for a 3 base timing before they get BL with marine tank thor. This is kind of complimentary to the standard marine tank play. I could see a style where you go for the standrad triple OC into 2/2 marine tank timing. If the zerg messed up you can punish but if the zerg is good then, instead of forcing cost ineffective engagements against turtling blord infestor, terran can take more bases and start massing ravens. You can sit behind tanks, planetaries and sensor towers while freeing up supply with multi pronged marine drops and sacrificing scvs. Basically, force the zerg to attack into a turtling terran or deal with Raven ball. | ||
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