EPTDrops
Ghosts for sniping
Ghosts that are dropped to nuke
EMP
Turtle hard and keep dropping and nuking
Snipes and EMP when the zerg comes close
get enough vikings, emp the infestors and you can snipe broodlords whole day with vikings and ghosts
1.4.3 How to kill lategame Zerg? - Page 11
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ETisME
12764 Posts
Drops Ghosts for sniping Ghosts that are dropped to nuke EMP Turtle hard and keep dropping and nuking Snipes and EMP when the zerg comes close get enough vikings, emp the infestors and you can snipe broodlords whole day with vikings and ghosts | ||
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stichlasser
69 Posts
So, you have to kill me, before I get there or you have to delay my tech/amount of units I can have by pressuring me with drops and runbys (helions+medivacs or even valkyre calldown and maybe raven with turrets). Can u tell a map, where you have the biggest problems? Maybe I can show you an "asshole" spot to drop and harass  | ||
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itsMAHVELbaybee
292 Posts
Tech switches are extremely strong against late game T because the viking is such a terrible unit on the ground its wasted supply and there are not enough marauders produced in time when ultra/ling gets to your base. With 3+ ghost academies you will have enough to keep nuking the same spot over and over again forcing the zerg to delay their push and buying you time to rebuild your army. Plus if your nuking around the map you are only committing a 2 supply ghost to the nuke harass versus medivac drops with 8 marines which adds up to 10 supply(which could be used to be in the main army). | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On February 17 2012 04:55 ToastieNL wrote: Snipe is becoming useless to everything but infestors. That's why it becomes useless vs Broodlord/Infestor, because of the broodlord aspect. 1 broodlord dies from 11 snipes nowadays. yes, this is a lot more than before. 1 ghost with max energy can have 8 snipes 2 ghosts can kill 1 broodlord as long as 1 ghost has 125 energy and the second has 150 energy or more. 4 supply/400 minerals/200 gas kills 4 supply/300 minerals/250gas basicly instantly. every infestor is 2 supply. so as long as you have an army of ghosts that match his supply, you should actually be able to kill his entire army with basicly no casualties. I would say ghosts are still quite viable. just not as OP as before, and blizz probably overdid it, but ghosts are still viable. p.s. dont even try to say "400mins/200gas is way more expensive than 300mins/250 gas because terran is limited by minerals, not gas" I answer: yea, well zerg is limited by gas and not minerals so the difference is actually just 50 resources since both sides use a lot of the stuff they dont have much of. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
Also big maps will be a nightmare for mass roach counters. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:55 Roblin wrote: 1 broodlord dies from 11 snipes nowadays. yes, this is a lot more than before. 1 ghost with max energy can have 8 snipes 2 ghosts can kill 1 broodlord as long as 1 ghost has 125 energy and the second has 150 energy or more. 4 supply/400 minerals/200 gas kills 4 supply/300 minerals/250gas basicly instantly. every infestor is 2 supply. so as long as you have an army of ghosts that match his supply, you should actually be able to kill his entire army with basicly no casualties. I would say ghosts are still quite viable. just not as OP as before, and blizz probably overdid it, but ghosts are still viable. p.s. dont even try to say "400mins/200gas is way more expensive than 300mins/250 gas because terran is limited by minerals, not gas" I answer: yea, well zerg is limited by gas and not minerals so the difference is actually just 50 resources since both sides use a lot of the stuff they dont have much of. Do you have a good reality of how long it takes to get 150 energy on a ghost, even with Moebius Reactor? I don't think you do. Ghosts start with 75 energy with upgrade, and units regenerate at .5625 energy/second. Therefore, to get 150 energy, it takes 133+ game seconds, and you would have to have a ghost popping that early for every broodlord they have. That's basically impossible. You're probably dead by the time that happens. Terran also just loses eventually if he can't create a cost-efficient trade. Terrans spend so much more on tech/infrastructure than the zerg that they need to trade cost efficiently or they will lose. Open up the spending tab in any game and look at how much more terran spends on tech (it's a lot). This is why zerg feels that their units ostensibly "suck" against terran units -- they have to be worse in a vacuum or Terran would never recoup its infrastructure cost. Also, it takes a pretty damn long time to fire off 11 snipes. What happens when you have to kill off 10 broodlords? It basically means you can't do much other micro, and it gets surprisingly difficult to work in even the usual macro juggling when sniping that much (I'm by no means a high level player, but I was rank1 diamond at the end of last season so I think I at least have some appreciation for the skill required to do all of this at once. When you combine with this that snipe is probably the buggiest spell in the entire game, it's just an overall disaster. Compare this to the micro that needs to be done to control broodlords (none, only babysitting to make sure that the broods don't move past the rest of your army or too close to marines) and the counter just requires so much more than the unit, and that's not even counting the splitting/emp's necessary to account for the infestors. I've tried snipe vs. broodlords now. It's not viable. In fact, it's so slow that the broods can often just A-move over the mass of ghosts before you can fire enough sniper rounds to kill them (10 vs. 9.5 is not a large enough range buffer to actually kite and snipe, especially once broodlings start to get in the way -- ghosts need to stop for a second to snipe while broods can basically stay in constant motion). I'm all about trying to find another combination to counter broodlords now, whether it's something with vikings, thors, BC's (although I'm not too impressed by those yet if the zerg controls their corruptors and infestors well), or even just pure marine/raven/medivac with lots of drop play and sufficient stuff at home to slow zerg down long enough to just win with pure economy. But ghosts are just not the answer anymore, not after all of this. | ||
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
Nothing too incredible, fungal can't really kill thors that fast and Vikings and thors can kill bl decently quick, I felt so vulnerable to him just making literally 100 lungs at a time and rallying them to the fight. Idk idk it's tough | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
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blamekilly
466 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 24 2012 04:48 IMoperator wrote: How do you guys play vs. ling infestor? I go marine tank, but I never know where, when or how to engage a ling/infestor using zergs. I know to use drops, but infestors still wreck my marines and tanks and then they get out t3 while I'm still on marine/tank and can't get enough ghosts out so I lose. You kinda have to make ghosts against infestor if you are going marine tank. if it's mech then you just go kill him with a 0/3 Thorlion army | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On February 24 2012 04:55 Blasterion wrote: You kinda have to make ghosts against infestor if you are going marine tank. if it's mech then you just go kill him with a 0/3 Thorlion army Well I'm talking about like infestors instead of mutas so they get them out at like 10 minutes along with a ton of upgraded lings. I don't think sitting back and letting them expand freely while trying to get ghosts will work, you'll just be too far behind. | ||
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
Terran is very strong, the ghost nerf was definitely a big deal, but there are lots of ways to fight for an advantage earlier in the game. This truly forces terran to try to get an advantage because before the lategame TvZ if you could do mild damage early (like just deny 3rd / creep spread or force roaches with hellions). Was just too strong and there were just too many ways to get there. I think the way they structured the nerf was silly (a la QXC post), but there are still lots of ways to try to do great damage and abuse zerg lategame immobility (which really exists). Terran also still has way under-used lategame options to destroy lots of SCVs something that only happens at high levels of play, but should happen at many levels. Basically tired of entering to TvT mirrors and hearing bitching. Fucking 90% of masters terrans can't keep their economy balanced with their production structures, don't know how to scout in a specific way (do you know what the timing difference is between a stalker that was zealot-stalker and a stalker that was stalker first?) and complain because there aren't "units" to deal with specific issues. The units terran has serve strategic purposes and so if you fail to use them that way, you'll lose, this isn't an interesting observation. Terran has such great versatility and I still think a lot of units are way under-used by terran to serve their strategic purposes. Ghost sniping / emping good units is hard and THAT'S A GOOD THING. Ghosts are not supposed to be able to wipe out the opposing army without taking any damage. I've still never seen a ZvT game where I saw what the zerg did and was thinking "well, it's literally impossible to deal with that in any way", but I've felt awfully close at times throughout the patch history in other matchups in other directions. P.S. I know terran is still fine in TvZ because I beat much higher ranked zergs regularly and still feel like I'm playing terribly. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On February 17 2012 05:07 ToastieNL wrote: But I'd be very far behind on upgrades, as well as not having the infrastructure. Is the only way for mech to survive lategame to not be mech anymore? That's stupid.... People aren't entitled to be able to do a certain strategy in a certain match up. You feel like you have to use bio in ZvT every game? Well I feel like I have to go ling/bane/muta every game in ZvT. I also feel like there's almost never a situation where I can make ultras. That's just how the game is, only certain things are viable in some matchups, and some things are almost never viable even though it seems like they should be. | ||
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
We don't want a game where if Zerg doesn't take significant eco damage by 13 min then they win. It's not balanced and doesn't promote sc2 as an esport (people would know who will win at 13 min) I think that maybe strike cannon or Yamato to deal with infestors with Vikings might work, it takes a ton of fungals to kill Terran T3 aswell. You lose a lot if they just go pure ling after you kill their infestor bl army though due to lack of mobility and your tech just can't kill lings that fast | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
1. The immobility of my army. Seriously, just drop all the time. 2. The use of nukes and HSM. Especially the nukes, they don't have to kill all my broods, but slowly pushing forward with nukes, along with nuking my bases makes me want to cry. HSM on a pack of broods is generally just a good thing. Gl. | ||
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nemonic
132 Posts
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oogieogie
United States3657 Posts
if ultras then just build a bunch of marauders with medivacs n ghosts to emp the infestors again. as mech..maybe vikings + raven for HSM? broodlords are super slow n if they are atking you they clump up really easily, and i highly doubt the broodlords can run from HSM. | ||
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D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
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