EPT1.4.3 How to kill lategame Zerg? - Page 13
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Raambo11
United States828 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:29 Let it Raine wrote: HSM is good vs broods every topic i click is kids in bronze league that dont even make the units they're qqing about Its good vs broods if you dont get fungaled first, or instantly sniped by mutas, sure if the zerg has no idea how to deal with ravens and makes blords without infestors HSM works, but in that case you dont need HSM in the first place, you can just use vikings... | ||
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zMiracle
1 Post
On February 17 2012 04:52 HaXXspetten wrote: Do what MVP does; as soon as Broods start to come out, start dropping like crazy since his mobility will go down immensly. Also, Terrans tend to get an enourmous gas bank after a while, so starting to mass Ravens is a decent idea, partially because you've got nothing to better to spend your gas on, and partially because Broods tend to stack up a lot, and are too slow to outrun Seekers => massive splash damage. Just my thoughts on it. zergs will always have lings so drops can't be that useful and if the ravens get out of position then t will be hard to get back since ravens are hard to remake | ||
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Unsinkable
United States23 Posts
On February 17 2012 04:38 ToastieNL wrote: Hi there! Lately I have been trying a mech style to avoind needing Ghost alltogether, but I CANT for the life of me beat Zergs going Broodlord infestor. It requires me to get a lot of Vikings, than Ultraling rolls me over bigtime. Question: How do I kill Broodlord Infestor + Transitions when I'm going for a Mech build? I just don't know it anymore, and I dont want to switch races... Does anybody know when David is dealing with this strategy that he said is slightly imbalanced? Kind regards! It requires you to get lots of viking... Then get lots of viking. Spread out so they don't get fungaled. and add ghost. EMP infestor and use snipes | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
Versus any "good" player (one who reacts correctly), drop play simply doesn't win games. The whole reason you drop is to delay or slow down your opponent. That said, it is still very important that you perform drops, or other forms of harass, especially vs zerg. If you don't, and zerg feels safe enough to drone up, a 3 base zerg can easily hit optimal numbers of drones in 2-3 producion cycles. This leaves all larva produced going forward to be spent on their army and they will just overrun you. Personally I favor marine tank medvac vs zerg as marine drops can not only kill off drones, but snipe tech structures much easier than hellions. Plus, if you are not going marines, you have virtually no way to deal with mass muta. But back to the OP: If you really want to go mech vs zerg you are going to need to go turtle mech terran and get a lot of hellions for map control. For mineral dump: get hellions and missle turrets (in case of mutas). Since you are going turtle mech be liberal with turrets when you dont need more hellions. You are going to want to use your hellions to poke around, deny creep and to just "slow" zerg down. If zerg gets roaches/infestors, you can continue to poke around, just lead with a hellion so you have better vision of what is in front of you. Add dropships for hellion drops once zerg gets too many roaches/infestors/spinecrawlers and you cant get past certain chokes. If zerg goes mutas it'll be a little tricky since you'll have to watch out for terrain that will pin your hellions down, but you can effectively "dance" with mutas and keep zerg in a defensive position with minimal hellion losses. Meanwhile back at base all your gas needs to go to tanks and thors. Its generally a good idea to have a starport and reactor ready to make vikings once the time comes or if you scout early hive, and usually you would have needed one for medvacs and hellion drops. You should be taking bases, putting down planetary fortresses, in base orbitals and turtling the chokes leading to your expos. Upgrades are good too. As late game comes, inbase orbitals are essential since you are going to want to lower your scv count to make room for meaty mech units like thors, and you'll be using scv's for autorepair with your army. (bc's can be used, but i've never found them practical). But yeah, not really a guide or anything but that is your general plan. Mech is really good vs zerg, just I've never been a fan of it. You have to be a very methodical and have good multitask otherwise turtle mech just turns to turtle. | ||
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Dbla08
United States211 Posts
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Ashakyre
United States99 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:12 Sein wrote: I would just like to chime in here as well and tell everyone how legit this guy is. I am a Gold Protoss player (but Diamond 86 for 3v3 random). I've been playing as terran for the past couple of hours following this guy's advice against my friend who is a Master Zerg. He usually beats me one-handed and with 50% handicap, but we went about 50-50 today while he was actually trying his best (or so he claimed). It was a pretty amazing feeling. Triple stim is a move that shames even MVP_Genius. My friend was absolutely shocked and asked how the hell I got so much better in a day, and I told him: "I don't usually bother with strategy advices...but when I do, I listen to Ashakyre from Teamliquid." Hi Sein! I am pleased you have decided to begin taking this game as seriously as it warrants at our level. If you've mastered the triple stim technique, may I recommend you experiment with the Super Ghost? If every Terran I played against on ladder used the Super Ghost, there would no reason for me to know any builds, as the ZvT metagame would be in those cases essentially neutralized. I highly recommend that all Terrans make the Super Ghost a regular part of their TvZ strategies. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:29 Let it Raine wrote: HSM is good vs broods every topic i click is kids in bronze league that dont even make the units they're qqing about It's not unless the Zerg is incredebly stupid with his Broodlords you hit at best 3 at the same time . 1 for 100 Damage 2 for 50 Damage. So you need like 10? to deal with decent Broodlord count. And if he sees you mass Ravens would he still build a bigger Broodlord count ? I don't think so. Not to mention after the Ravens fire the Seekers they instantly become completely useless for several minutes .... We're talking about regenerating to 125 Energy here not just 75 for every normal spell . If you don't think i know what i'm talking about i could post screenshots of actual games and/or the unit tester to prove my point. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
But I think its safe to conclude that if zerg gets 15+ brood lords the game will be over, unless you want to try and base trade. | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On February 24 2012 11:35 Mr Showtime wrote: Ravens with HSM...... absolutely wrecks BLs and corruptors. Another one of those that apparently have never actually used it himself else he wouldn't post non-sense like this.... Unless the Zerg huddles everything in 1 big clump because for example he for some reason trys to run away from Seeker Missile insteand of trying to spread a bit its not going to do alot of damage . And thats if you manage to fire it with its small range against Infestors .... The reaction most people have to Seeker Missile is "Oh Fuck HSM incoming gotta run" thats exactly the wrong reaction to it. Just grab a few units at a time and move them a little bit ( doesn't even have to be much ) . Never run away from it with everything . All units you grab at the same time and try to run away are going to clump and will get hit if they aren't fast enough. Hell even not moving at all would be smarter then trying to run with everything If you don't believe me try Seeker Missile out in a game or the Unit tester and prepare to be well underwhelmed. Seeker Missile is worse then Storm/Fungal to anything but the first target doesn't matter that it stacks since you need a stupidly high Raven count to really make that matter and those Raven instantly become useless without Energy and/or any kind of techswitch . | ||
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OtoshimonoU
United States509 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:26 architecture wrote: Have any top players, other than meching players, experimented with mass Thor? Like 10+ thor to turtle with? Thor do an even job with BL and ultras, and come from production buildings you already have, with upgrades you have been doing, can react to ultras, have range, and ignore the air war vs corruptors. Seems like, with proper simcity, 10 Thors should be viable. Thors are kinda weak vs ling/roach. If you want to add more units to that equation it does change. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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loleraserheadz112
United States63 Posts
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oxxo
988 Posts
On February 24 2012 12:32 oOOoOphidian wrote: It only takes 4 more snipes to kill a Brood Lord. /thread From 5 to 9. From 100 energy to 225. It's not a 'just'. You can't go pure mech and realistically beat infestor/BL + ultra switch. You need rax for EMP and marauders for the tech switch. | ||
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Hossinaut
United States453 Posts
Similarly, the BL/Infestor army is INCREDIBLY immobile. As a Zerg, it pains me to have left over zerglings running around, going like 9000 times faster than the rest of my army. Vikings are a decent response, but you NEED them spread out, no viking flower action- that'll kill you faster than chili (yuck that stuff is gross D  . Similarly, Ghosts aren't useless. Nuke drops/ cloaked ghosts for nukes/ EMP all have remained very powerful options. 3BFH + a ghost to nuke the exit is a pretty good way to kill a lot of units, either killing the hellions, or the hellions with the drones. Finally, while mech is relatively immobile depending on your siege tank count, against Infestor/BL, I do not understand the need for many tanks. In my personal opinion, Thors and Vikings and Banshees are more useful. Sure, fungals do LOADS of damage to banshees and etc etc but they kill shit really fast, Thors outrange BL, Vikings are at the edge of the range of FG. All you got to do is not have SO many tanks, like 4-5 and fill the rest of the supply with vikings and hellions to buffer and to harass with. <3 GLGL <# | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On February 24 2012 13:09 Hossinaut wrote: Drop hellions; 4 BFH are 400 minerals that you can afford to waste because your style is gas-intensive. Similarly, the BL/Infestor army is INCREDIBLY immobile. As a Zerg, it pains me to have left over zerglings running around, going like 9000 times faster than the rest of my army. Vikings are a decent response, but you NEED them spread out, no viking flower action- that'll kill you faster than chili (yuck that stuff is gross D . Similarly, Ghosts aren't useless. Nuke drops/ cloaked ghosts for nukes/ EMP all have remained very powerful options. 3BFH + a ghost to nuke the exit is a pretty good way to kill a lot of units, either killing the hellions, or the hellions with the drones. Finally, while mech is relatively immobile depending on your siege tank count, against Infestor/BL, I do not understand the need for many tanks. In my personal opinion, Thors and Vikings and Banshees are more useful. Sure, fungals do LOADS of damage to banshees and etc etc but they kill shit really fast, Thors outrange BL, Vikings are at the edge of the range of FG. All you got to do is not have SO many tanks, like 4-5 and fill the rest of the supply with vikings and hellions to buffer and to harass with. <3 GLGL <# The heavy Mech armies from my personal experience can be good on the smaller more narrow Maps . Once the Map gets bigger you can really struggle to expand with Mech . Hell if the Zerg sees you are meching he should put up a good numbers of Spines on his expos and he's save since Helions are the only thing he has to fear/expect for a long period of time. If he keeps you from expanding long enough he doesn't have to fear an attack since Mech is only strong once you reach a certain supply count. If the Zerg manages to delay you getting there you're dead with Mech. | ||
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sagdashin
Norway45 Posts
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lost_artz
United States366 Posts
This replay shows how to deal w/ Bloodlord,Corrupter with Mass ravens and frankly it's a fun one to watch and you can tell Nestea doesn't have an idea of what to do vs. it. | ||
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