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1.4.3 How to kill lategame Zerg? - Page 13

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
February 24 2012 01:40 GMT
#241
I believe it will be coming down to positioning battles, terran has to use vikings to snipe overseers to let ghosts go in and snipe or EMP infestors, therefore letting ravens HSM without getting instagibbed by fungals.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Raambo11
Profile Joined April 2011
United States828 Posts
February 24 2012 01:40 GMT
#242
On February 24 2012 10:29 Let it Raine wrote:
HSM is good vs broods

every topic i click is kids in bronze league that dont even make the units they're qqing about


Its good vs broods if you dont get fungaled first, or instantly sniped by mutas, sure if the zerg has no idea how to deal with ravens and makes blords without infestors HSM works, but in that case you dont need HSM in the first place, you can just use vikings...
zMiracle
Profile Joined February 2012
1 Post
February 24 2012 01:45 GMT
#243
On February 17 2012 04:52 HaXXspetten wrote:
Do what MVP does; as soon as Broods start to come out, start dropping like crazy since his mobility will go down immensly. Also, Terrans tend to get an enourmous gas bank after a while, so starting to mass Ravens is a decent idea, partially because you've got nothing to better to spend your gas on, and partially because Broods tend to stack up a lot, and are too slow to outrun Seekers => massive splash damage. Just my thoughts on it.

zergs will always have lings so drops can't be that useful and if the ravens get out of position then t will be hard to get back since ravens are hard to remake
Unsinkable
Profile Joined April 2011
United States23 Posts
February 24 2012 01:49 GMT
#244
On February 17 2012 04:38 ToastieNL wrote:
Hi there!

Lately I have been trying a mech style to avoind needing Ghost alltogether, but I CANT for the life of me beat Zergs going Broodlord infestor. It requires me to get a lot of Vikings, than Ultraling rolls me over bigtime.

Question: How do I kill Broodlord Infestor + Transitions when I'm going for a Mech build?

I just don't know it anymore, and I dont want to switch races... Does anybody know when David is dealing with this strategy that he said is slightly imbalanced?

Kind regards!


It requires you to get lots of viking... Then get lots of viking. Spread out so they don't get fungaled. and add ghost. EMP infestor and use snipes
A friend in need is a friend indeed
Rowrin
Profile Joined September 2011
United States280 Posts
February 24 2012 02:05 GMT
#245
I see a lot of people say drop play over and over and here is the thing:

Versus any "good" player (one who reacts correctly), drop play simply doesn't win games. The whole reason you drop is to delay or slow down your opponent.

That said, it is still very important that you perform drops, or other forms of harass, especially vs zerg. If you don't, and zerg feels safe enough to drone up, a 3 base zerg can easily hit optimal numbers of drones in 2-3 producion cycles. This leaves all larva produced going forward to be spent on their army and they will just overrun you.

Personally I favor marine tank medvac vs zerg as marine drops can not only kill off drones, but snipe tech structures much easier than hellions. Plus, if you are not going marines, you have virtually no way to deal with mass muta.

But back to the OP:

If you really want to go mech vs zerg you are going to need to go turtle mech terran and get a lot of hellions for map control.

For mineral dump: get hellions and missle turrets (in case of mutas). Since you are going turtle mech be liberal with turrets when you dont need more hellions.

You are going to want to use your hellions to poke around, deny creep and to just "slow" zerg down. If zerg gets roaches/infestors, you can continue to poke around, just lead with a hellion so you have better vision of what is in front of you. Add dropships for hellion drops once zerg gets too many roaches/infestors/spinecrawlers and you cant get past certain chokes. If zerg goes mutas it'll be a little tricky since you'll have to watch out for terrain that will pin your hellions down, but you can effectively "dance" with mutas and keep zerg in a defensive position with minimal hellion losses.

Meanwhile back at base all your gas needs to go to tanks and thors. Its generally a good idea to have a starport and reactor ready to make vikings once the time comes or if you scout early hive, and usually you would have needed one for medvacs and hellion drops. You should be taking bases, putting down planetary fortresses, in base orbitals and turtling the chokes leading to your expos. Upgrades are good too.

As late game comes, inbase orbitals are essential since you are going to want to lower your scv count to make room for meaty mech units like thors, and you'll be using scv's for autorepair with your army. (bc's can be used, but i've never found them practical).

But yeah, not really a guide or anything but that is your general plan. Mech is really good vs zerg, just I've never been a fan of it. You have to be a very methodical and have good multitask otherwise turtle mech just turns to turtle.
Dbla08
Profile Joined March 2011
United States211 Posts
February 24 2012 02:10 GMT
#246
why does every low level terran think ghosts are bad vs bl infestor now? they still rape infestors, ghosts will always be good vs other casters
Ashakyre
Profile Joined October 2011
United States99 Posts
February 24 2012 02:10 GMT
#247
On February 24 2012 10:12 Sein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2012 11:25 Ashakyre wrote:
All this advice is good, but I wanted to add my own two cents as well. I'm a newly promoted Platinum Zerg, so I feel my perspective 100% unbiased. You would be well served to heed my words of wisdom.

I would certainly agree that there are challenges in a late-game Zerg situation, and it's critical to use every tool at one's disposal to make things easier. What you need to remember is that Marines were never intended to have a long life-span in combat, hence Stim. When facing mass Brood Lords and infestors, you should focus on Marine production and attempt to overrun the Brood Lords in small, tactical attacks. Never send all your Marines at once, and try to focus on all the Brood Lords equally. This way you're not risking too many marines and, by attacking multiple Brood Lords at once, your chances that at least one of them will go down increase dramatically. Using small numbers of Marines to attack Brood Lords in the way should guarantee there are never more than 2 or 3 marines per Brood Lord.

At this point in the game you should have a healthy bank of minerals so I recommend shifting the use of your M.U.L.E.S from an economic to a tactical role. Remember, you'll be using small numbers of Marines to take out Brood Lords, so speed is of the essence. Double or triple stim your Marines for maximum speed and engage the Brood Lords, dropping Mules to absorb broodling damage, and, to increase their longevity, repair one another as well.

You'll need all of your Medevacs for the final stand at your base, so I highly advise against drops during this phase of the game, or during any phase for that matter. Clump up your Marines in front of your wall to maximize firepower, and focus down broodlings. Brood Lords have a preset kill limit, after which they morph into overlords, so all you really need to do is wait it out. Don't worry, it won't last very long.

These tactics are difficult to execute and it will take you at least 50-60 games to master them. Play through the pain. When you reach the end of this process I promise you will have changed the results of this match-up favorably.

If you are having difficulty, there is one final piece of advice I have for you. To be honest, I'm surprised no one mentioned it earlier. I'm not sure I should even discuss it openly, so I'm putting it into spoilers.
+ Show Spoiler +
When the going gets very difficult, and you have no other options, there is one more unit in the Terran arsenal which has undeniable potential to alter the matchup: the Super Ghost. You need to be extremely careful how you use this unit. It costs no resources, takes up no supply, and guarantees victory. The Super Ghost will make the Zerg army disappear from your screen instantly. To access the Super Ghost, take a deep breath, and press F10 and then press N. The secret is to press it really fast, otherwise it won't work. The Zerg army will disappear from your screen, and a favorable result will have been achieved. It might take 20 or 30 tries to master this technique, and again, you have to play through the pain, but I guarantee a favorable result.


This advice is guaranteed to be effective. I hope you follow it the next time we meet on ladder.


I would just like to chime in here as well and tell everyone how legit this guy is. I am a Gold Protoss player (but Diamond 86 for 3v3 random). I've been playing as terran for the past couple of hours following this guy's advice against my friend who is a Master Zerg. He usually beats me one-handed and with 50% handicap, but we went about 50-50 today while he was actually trying his best (or so he claimed). It was a pretty amazing feeling. Triple stim is a move that shames even MVP_Genius. My friend was absolutely shocked and asked how the hell I got so much better in a day, and I told him:

"I don't usually bother with strategy advices...but when I do, I listen to Ashakyre from Teamliquid."


Hi Sein!

I am pleased you have decided to begin taking this game as seriously as it warrants at our level. If you've mastered the triple stim technique, may I recommend you experiment with the Super Ghost? If every Terran I played against on ladder used the Super Ghost, there would no reason for me to know any builds, as the ZvT metagame would be in those cases essentially neutralized.

I highly recommend that all Terrans make the Super Ghost a regular part of their TvZ strategies.
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-24 02:20:44
February 24 2012 02:18 GMT
#248
On February 24 2012 10:29 Let it Raine wrote:
HSM is good vs broods

every topic i click is kids in bronze league that dont even make the units they're qqing about


It's not unless the Zerg is incredebly stupid with his Broodlords you hit at best 3 at the same time . 1 for 100 Damage 2 for 50 Damage. So you need like 10? to deal with decent Broodlord count. And if he sees you mass Ravens would he still build a bigger Broodlord count ? I don't think so. Not to mention after the Ravens fire the Seekers they instantly become completely useless for several minutes .... We're talking about regenerating to 125 Energy here not just 75 for every normal spell .

If you don't think i know what i'm talking about i could post screenshots of actual games and/or the unit tester to prove my point.
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
February 24 2012 02:30 GMT
#249
It is no longer a specific unit that allows you to do something. It's going to become a simple problem with a complex answer. All of it will come down to the map and where the expansions are. I don't know how we're going to win against well defended expansions on shakuras in the late game as terran vs zerg.

But I think its safe to conclude that if zerg gets 15+ brood lords the game will be over, unless you want to try and base trade.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
Mr Showtime
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1353 Posts
February 24 2012 02:35 GMT
#250
Ravens with HSM...... absolutely wrecks BLs and corruptors.
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-24 03:23:41
February 24 2012 02:40 GMT
#251
On February 24 2012 11:35 Mr Showtime wrote:
Ravens with HSM...... absolutely wrecks BLs and corruptors.


Another one of those that apparently have never actually used it himself else he wouldn't post non-sense like this....
Unless the Zerg huddles everything in 1 big clump because for example he for some reason trys to run away from Seeker Missile insteand of trying to spread a bit its not going to do alot of damage . And thats if you manage to fire it with its small range against Infestors ....

The reaction most people have to Seeker Missile is "Oh Fuck HSM incoming gotta run" thats exactly the wrong reaction to it. Just grab a few units at a time and move them a little bit ( doesn't even have to be much ) . Never run away from it with everything . All units you grab at the same time and try to run away are going to clump and will get hit if they aren't fast enough. Hell even not moving at all would be smarter then trying to run with everything

If you don't believe me try Seeker Missile out in a game or the Unit tester and prepare to be well underwhelmed.

Seeker Missile is worse then Storm/Fungal to anything but the first target doesn't matter that it stacks since you need a stupidly high Raven count to really make that matter and those Raven instantly become useless without Energy and/or any kind of techswitch .
OtoshimonoU
Profile Joined December 2011
United States509 Posts
February 24 2012 02:53 GMT
#252
Watch Avilo. He has some sick TvZ/
God Young ho
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
February 24 2012 03:00 GMT
#253
On February 24 2012 10:26 architecture wrote:
Have any top players, other than meching players, experimented with mass Thor? Like 10+ thor to turtle with?

Thor do an even job with BL and ultras, and come from production buildings you already have, with upgrades you have been doing, can react to ultras, have range, and ignore the air war vs corruptors.

Seems like, with proper simcity, 10 Thors should be viable.


Thors are kinda weak vs ling/roach. If you want to add more units to that equation it does change.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
February 24 2012 03:32 GMT
#254
It only takes 4 more snipes to kill a Brood Lord. /thread
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
loleraserheadz112
Profile Joined January 2011
United States63 Posts
February 24 2012 03:38 GMT
#255
Your composition is flawed, you need these 4 units: Viking, banshee, hellion, thor. This will deal with nearly all zerg unit compositions. Viking+thor > Muta. Banshee > Roach/other ground, Hellion > Zergling. Pretty much try to go for this composition. Try doing 2 port banshee too, its amazing vs zerg.
Insanity is repeating the same task and expecting different results.
oxxo
Profile Joined February 2010
988 Posts
February 24 2012 03:54 GMT
#256
On February 24 2012 12:32 oOOoOphidian wrote:
It only takes 4 more snipes to kill a Brood Lord. /thread


From 5 to 9. From 100 energy to 225. It's not a 'just'.

You can't go pure mech and realistically beat infestor/BL + ultra switch. You need rax for EMP and marauders for the tech switch.
Hossinaut
Profile Joined June 2011
United States453 Posts
February 24 2012 04:09 GMT
#257
Drop hellions; 4 BFH are 400 minerals that you can afford to waste because your style is gas-intensive.
Similarly, the BL/Infestor army is INCREDIBLY immobile. As a Zerg, it pains me to have left over zerglings running around, going like 9000 times faster than the rest of my army. Vikings are a decent response, but you NEED them spread out, no viking flower action- that'll kill you faster than chili (yuck that stuff is gross D. Similarly, Ghosts aren't useless. Nuke drops/ cloaked ghosts for nukes/ EMP all have remained very powerful options. 3BFH + a ghost to nuke the exit is a pretty good way to kill a lot of units, either killing the hellions, or the hellions with the drones.

Finally, while mech is relatively immobile depending on your siege tank count, against Infestor/BL, I do not understand the need for many tanks. In my personal opinion, Thors and Vikings and Banshees are more useful. Sure, fungals do LOADS of damage to banshees and etc etc but they kill shit really fast, Thors outrange BL, Vikings are at the edge of the range of FG. All you got to do is not have SO many tanks, like 4-5 and fill the rest of the supply with vikings and hellions to buffer and to harass with. <3

GLGL <#
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-24 05:20:03
February 24 2012 04:18 GMT
#258
On February 24 2012 13:09 Hossinaut wrote:
Drop hellions; 4 BFH are 400 minerals that you can afford to waste because your style is gas-intensive.
Similarly, the BL/Infestor army is INCREDIBLY immobile. As a Zerg, it pains me to have left over zerglings running around, going like 9000 times faster than the rest of my army. Vikings are a decent response, but you NEED them spread out, no viking flower action- that'll kill you faster than chili (yuck that stuff is gross D. Similarly, Ghosts aren't useless. Nuke drops/ cloaked ghosts for nukes/ EMP all have remained very powerful options. 3BFH + a ghost to nuke the exit is a pretty good way to kill a lot of units, either killing the hellions, or the hellions with the drones.

Finally, while mech is relatively immobile depending on your siege tank count, against Infestor/BL, I do not understand the need for many tanks. In my personal opinion, Thors and Vikings and Banshees are more useful. Sure, fungals do LOADS of damage to banshees and etc etc but they kill shit really fast, Thors outrange BL, Vikings are at the edge of the range of FG. All you got to do is not have SO many tanks, like 4-5 and fill the rest of the supply with vikings and hellions to buffer and to harass with. <3

GLGL <#


The heavy Mech armies from my personal experience can be good on the smaller more narrow Maps . Once the Map gets bigger you can really struggle to expand with Mech . Hell if the Zerg sees you are meching he should put up a good numbers of Spines on his expos and he's save since Helions are the only thing he has to fear/expect for a long period of time. If he keeps you from expanding long enough he doesn't have to fear an attack since Mech is only strong once you reach a certain supply count. If the Zerg manages to delay you getting there you're dead with Mech.

sagdashin
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway45 Posts
February 24 2012 05:16 GMT
#259
I stopped playing. Now I don't lose anymore
lost_artz
Profile Joined January 2012
United States366 Posts
February 24 2012 05:37 GMT
#260
Vikings and 5+ Ravens. The more ravens you have the better.



This replay shows how to deal w/ Bloodlord,Corrupter with Mass ravens and frankly it's a fun one to watch and you can tell Nestea doesn't have an idea of what to do vs. it.
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