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On June 03 2012 19:55 Assaulter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 20:43 saaaa wrote:
How do i defend a roach/bling attack in the early game if i play a 2 Fac Blue Flame Hellion opening?
i always get crushed by this timing attack i feel that this is the problem with that build, i suggest you go 1 rax fe into reactor hellions off 2 gases, and then get a starport and go cloaked banshees, they will help you out alot, but make sure you scout well and get tanks fast if you're sure that this is what he is doing
And how should i defend it with my 2 fac bf hellion build? Is there any "plan" how to defend it the best way?
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On June 03 2012 20:36 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 19:55 Assaulter wrote:On June 02 2012 20:43 saaaa wrote:
How do i defend a roach/bling attack in the early game if i play a 2 Fac Blue Flame Hellion opening?
i always get crushed by this timing attack i feel that this is the problem with that build, i suggest you go 1 rax fe into reactor hellions off 2 gases, and then get a starport and go cloaked banshees, they will help you out alot, but make sure you scout well and get tanks fast if you're sure that this is what he is doing And how should i defend it with my 2 fac bf hellion build? Is there any "plan" how to defend it the best way?
Cancel blue flame and make tanks with siege mode out of the tech labbed factory
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I've been doing this for a while now and it works pretty good at my lowish silver/gold level. In fact many Zerg players at this level seem very suprised that somebody is playing full mech and they react very poorly to it.
One just complained about "this stupid all-in that will work 1 out of 15 times" after I arrived at his base with 200/200 mech after something like 18 minutes. Huh?
Many thanks LemonyTang, much appriciated. 
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Thank you for this guide! I do a variation of this build every TvZ and it was helpful to read your thoughts, it really clarified things. Today I had a game where I lost in a base trade o.O ... but now after reading your guide I see exactly why.
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Can someone tell me how to deal with a zerg that gets UBER early 3rd (5:50)? I can pressure it with hellions but that's about it. Is there any timing I can hit to take it out?
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How do you play against Roach/Bling/Infestor with Mech?
What composition is the best against this?
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On June 09 2012 08:06 Debian wrote:
Can someone tell me how to deal with a zerg that gets UBER early 3rd (5:50)? I can pressure it with hellions but that's about it. Is there any timing I can hit to take it out?
If you scout it while it's going down, build a bunker out of sight range, rally marines to it, then defend it from lings with hellions, use the bunker to target down the hatch
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On June 13 2012 05:39 saaaa wrote:
How do you play against Roach/Bling/Infestor with Mech?
What composition is the best against this?
You're going mech. Make tanks.
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I have a very big problem with Massroach style. They seem to be too speedy. Combinated with Drops they jsut wreck me - no matter what.
You now think: Get turrets - you got the money. So thatss what i was dooing. Turrets. But they jsut fly ober them with not loaded overlords and drop and destroy the turrets. Menwhile they attack my 3rd with another squad (thats ok cause i leave some of my army there).
Another problem is: PF do literally nothing vs roach.
When they drop on my tanks is also very bad. If I unsiege he swarms in with other roaches and kills me.
Got suggestions? Going more air? I normally have some Banshees but their killspeed is so low.
They also stop every Hellion Hrass, cause they are so cheap and speedy
Please help 
Im Diamond Terran. Mostly playing high diamond & low masters
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On June 15 2012 03:02 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 05:39 saaaa wrote:
How do you play against Roach/Bling/Infestor with Mech?
What composition is the best against this? You're going mech. Make tanks.
yes but he can switch to BL and with like 12+ Tanks and just some thors i have no chance if he do this transition.
and just viking against BL/corrupter/infestor is suicide.
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On June 15 2012 18:17 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 03:02 crocodile wrote:On June 13 2012 05:39 saaaa wrote:
How do you play against Roach/Bling/Infestor with Mech?
What composition is the best against this? You're going mech. Make tanks. yes but he can switch to BL and with like 12+ Tanks and just some thors i have no chance if he do this transition. and just viking against BL/corrupter/infestor is suicide.
Well you always have some Hellions and Thors. You cant just make only tanks.
I find Broodlord/Corruptor/Infestor/roach vs Mech very entertaining/"easy". You need some scans, quick reacition timefor siege. you kite the broods/corruptors into your thor splash. If he tries to fungal or attack with the roaches you focusfire with sieged tanks. (you siege them if you see him coming with roaches. they are behind your army so you have the time to siege them. You use hellions to buffer the damage/prevent the raoches from coming to close. And they kill the broodlings fast. you also need some scvs for reapair (thors mainly).
also just vikings never happens vs that composition. you always have at least 1 raven because you need the detection
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Im right now having problems with some early midgame aggression with roaches and in over 10 games i havent been able to find a way to beat it, its in the time when you have 2 thors....
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On June 13 2012 07:43 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 08:06 Debian wrote:
Can someone tell me how to deal with a zerg that gets UBER early 3rd (5:50)? I can pressure it with hellions but that's about it. Is there any timing I can hit to take it out? If you scout it while it's going down, build a bunker out of sight range, rally marines to it, then defend it from lings with hellions, use the bunker to target down the hatch
do you have any replays for us where this works?
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On June 16 2012 03:45 framtidenskrig wrote:
Im right now having problems with some early midgame aggression with roaches and in over 10 games i havent been able to find a way to beat it, its in the time when you have 2 thors....
See it coming and make sure you start tanks immediately after you have a couple of thors. Pull SCVs before the roaches are running up your natural. Keep them between the roaches and your thors, and repair.
Depending on how many roaches there are you either bring hellions back or run them into his natural / main. Ideally the latter, of course.
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On June 16 2012 04:38 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:43 Blyadischa wrote:On June 09 2012 08:06 Debian wrote:
Can someone tell me how to deal with a zerg that gets UBER early 3rd (5:50)? I can pressure it with hellions but that's about it. Is there any timing I can hit to take it out? If you scout it while it's going down, build a bunker out of sight range, rally marines to it, then defend it from lings with hellions, use the bunker to target down the hatch do you have any replays for us where this works?
KK uploaded 2 replays!
http://drop.sc/198479
http://drop.sc/198478
If you also have something else to point out on my mech play i would be very grateful
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On June 15 2012 18:11 Tppz! wrote:I have a very big problem with Massroach style. They seem to be too speedy. Combinated with Drops they jsut wreck me - no matter what. You now think: Get turrets - you got the money. So thatss what i was dooing. Turrets. But they jsut fly ober them with not loaded overlords and drop and destroy the turrets. Menwhile they attack my 3rd with another squad (thats ok cause i leave some of my army there). Another problem is: PF do literally nothing vs roach. When they drop on my tanks is also very bad. If I unsiege he swarms in with other roaches and kills me. Got suggestions? Going more air? I normally have some Banshees but their killspeed is so low. They also stop every Hellion Hrass, cause they are so cheap and speedy Please help Im Diamond Terran. Mostly playing high diamond & low masters
Hey there, personally I think it's partially inevitable that if he commits to a massive roach attack then he will do some damage. Turrets limit the damage a bit by killing the overlords, sometimes with roaches in them, but you still need to have units at home in advance to stop this. Try leaving 2 tanks sieged up next to your orbital to hit roaches as they drop, and in my games I like to build a sizeable banshee fleet, I'm talking at least 5 banshees, which easily clean up drops much faster than you'd think. Once you have quite a few, the killspeed is actually higher than you would imagine.
Having quite a few banshees is also great for if they drop on your tanks, since it makes it much easier to clean up that kinda thing. It's really hard to deal with heavy drops ontop of your army, your best bet is to have your tanks spread out nicely, have 2~ turrets up or so infront of your army (stops mutas, drops and burrowed movement) and have quite a few thors mixed in as well. But the main thing is the banshees, keep them alive and they keep you alive.
On June 16 2012 03:45 framtidenskrig wrote:
Im right now having problems with some early midgame aggression with roaches and in over 10 games i havent been able to find a way to beat it, its in the time when you have 2 thors....
Hey, like above, this kinda thing can be stopped with banshees, but you have to be careful to keep them alive when you're harassing with them. They really make the difference as long as you know the roaches are coming, with that said, sometimes you'll still fall and it's just because you didn't do enough harassment damage and your macro was slow. It comes with practice but you should stop losing to this kind of thing soon.
Here is a bunch of replays I played in the last 2 days. I won some and lost others, you can look at them and see for yourselves what I do differently to you and if it works or not.
http://drop.sc/200136
http://drop.sc/200135
http://drop.sc/200134
http://drop.sc/200133 (utter mess, I don't even go mech, no point watching really)
http://drop.sc/200132
http://drop.sc/200131
http://drop.sc/200130
http://drop.sc/200129
http://drop.sc/200128
http://drop.sc/200127
In these replays you'll notice that if I have too high a tank count by the end then I just take a bunch, 4-5 of them and send them around the side to snipe a hatchery. In the lategame, having too high a tank count can be the factor that costs you the air war, and you don't need many once you start adding in banshees/battlecruisers.
I hope this helps guys. You can always see me playing mech on my stream as well and you can ask questions there, or don't hesitate to PM me if you'd rather not post on the thread directly.
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I hope this helps guys. You can always see me playing mech on my stream as well and you can ask questions there, or don't hesitate to PM me if you'd rather not post on the thread directly.
What is your channel and when do you stream? Really want to check it out. I need all the examples I can find for TvZ right now.
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Is there any counter to roach drop on army? I just watched Violet vs MVP and MVP got owned so hard. Violet scouted he was going mech a bit late but he still got out overlord drop with speed and dropped on MVPs army at like 14 min and completely smashed him.
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On June 16 2012 03:45 framtidenskrig wrote:
Im right now having problems with some early midgame aggression with roaches and in over 10 games i havent been able to find a way to beat it, its in the time when you have 2 thors....
Unfortunatly, mech does not have a counter for this. I played mech till GM level but with the new patch, you are lying to yourself if you think you can defend against a capeable zerg who realises that in the early midgame the terran defence consists of 4-6 thors, 3-4 banshees, maybe a couple of siege tanks when he himself can max out on roaches by 12 minutes (and that is a generous amount of units for the terran).
The whole point of the banshee hellion build was, initially, to totally prevent a zerg from being able to take a third until he got mutas. This is just not the case anymore and a zerg can defend without using larva for anything but drones, consequently, they have a timing between around 10 min and 15 min when you have no chance of defending, should they try to attack. This is a huge current flaw with mech and one that unfortunatly makes mech not viable right now (unless you ignore it and plow on, but at 1300-1400 master, many zergs employ such a strategy)
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On June 27 2012 19:53 Debian wrote:Show nested quote +...
I hope this helps guys. You can always see me playing mech on my stream as well and you can ask questions there, or don't hesitate to PM me if you'd rather not post on the thread directly. What is your channel and when do you stream? Really want to check it out. I need all the examples I can find for TvZ right now.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=lemonytang or twitch.tv/lemonytang ! I stream 3-4 weekdays from 3pm GMT to about 10pm, sometimes my schedule is interrupted however if I'm off visiting places or have to work on certain days.
On June 28 2012 13:49 Debian wrote:
Is there any counter to roach drop on army? I just watched Violet vs MVP and MVP got owned so hard. Violet scouted he was going mech a bit late but he still got out overlord drop with speed and dropped on MVPs army at like 14 min and completely smashed him.
It's true that roach drops can crush a mech army, however we should point out that in this game MVP didn't even unsiege, he was so screwed. Roach drops will always trade better with a mech army than most other things jerg can do (though roach/hydra is even better), but there are ways to prevent it. It's hard to really scout if he's going to drop your main army, because drop is an upgrade researched at the lair so it's harder to work out when it's being made.
However I don't think that the existence of roach drops nullify this style. In my games I often build turret rings around my army, the best example of this is on Daybreak, where once you take the middle base I build 4 turrets in an arc around the base, or on Antiga I build two in the low ground area. Turrets are a minimal investment to prevent drops like this. There's also the case that your army when you're playing a style similar to mine, won't really be pure tank. At most you should go up to 10 tanks, and that's only in extreme cases. Most of the time you'll probably have around 6-7 tanks, which, if well spread out, can do well in roach drop scenarios when you add in the fact that you're intended to have five or so banshees as well as thors mixed in.
You should also be prepared with at least some starports, in at least some games. This means that once you notice him doing weird things (having clumps of overlords outside his base, which indicates an incoming drop) you can build a nice number of vikings. Having something like 6 vikings helps tons, as you can shoot down overlords before they empty, and it means you clear up all the overlords from the drop which - assuming you survive - puts you in a great position as he has to use all his larvae to make new overlords and not useful units.
On June 28 2012 13:59 vBr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 03:45 framtidenskrig wrote:
Im right now having problems with some early midgame aggression with roaches and in over 10 games i havent been able to find a way to beat it, its in the time when you have 2 thors.... Unfortunatly, mech does not have a counter for this. I played mech till GM level but with the new patch, you are lying to yourself if you think you can defend against a capeable zerg who realises that in the early midgame the terran defence consists of 4-6 thors, 3-4 banshees, maybe a couple of siege tanks when he himself can max out on roaches by 12 minutes (and that is a generous amount of units for the terran). The whole point of the banshee hellion build was, initially, to totally prevent a zerg from being able to take a third until he got mutas. This is just not the case anymore and a zerg can defend without using larva for anything but drones, consequently, they have a timing between around 10 min and 15 min when you have no chance of defending, should they try to attack. This is a huge current flaw with mech and one that unfortunatly makes mech not viable right now (unless you ignore it and plow on, but at 1300-1400 master, many zergs employ such a strategy)
I want to dispute this post. I finished last season at 1300 points, so admittedly I'm not the peak of masters, but this season I'm 30-10 in TvZ on ladder and using hellion/banshee I feel it's not even necessary to deny a third to be ahead. Overzealous zergs who think they can rely on queens to defend are in fact, wrong, and once you have around 8 hellions and 2 banshees, you can start to do real damage. You force him to make units before he is saturated, and you can defend pushes easily with banshees and just a few tanks as long as you don't fail on your macro. If you scout he isn't going mutalisk and overbuild thors (6 is way too many at this stage) then you are going to be gimping yourself and leave a hole for this kind of attack, but as long as you have a few tanks it's really easy to stabilise from any aggression with the banshees to help out.
A lot of zergs will build say 15 roaches, but once your banshees start whaling on them from the middle of the map, they turn around as they know they can't break you.
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EPT
