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On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch.
sure i forgot queens O.o
do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition?
Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond.
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On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond. IMO that would die to an aggressive Zerg who goes Muta/Ling or Roach and attacks before your production really ramps up and you get enough BC's to survive. There might be a way to transition using Tank/BC/Missile Turret/Hellion to defend, though. I'm not really sure.
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On July 12 2012 21:50 Fencar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond. IMO that would die to an aggressive Zerg who goes Muta/Ling or Roach and attacks before your production really ramps up and you get enough BC's to survive. There might be a way to transition using Tank/BC/Missile Turret/Hellion to defend, though. I'm not really sure.
i have like 4-5 banshees, 2 Thors and maybe 2-3 BC with a PF Wall at my 3rd and turret rings at my production+minerals.
I just died in my games because i underestimate the strength of corrupters. You need really early Ravens to deflect their attacks. Maybe after 3-4 BC you should start Raven production.
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On July 12 2012 21:55 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 21:50 Fencar wrote:On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond. IMO that would die to an aggressive Zerg who goes Muta/Ling or Roach and attacks before your production really ramps up and you get enough BC's to survive. There might be a way to transition using Tank/BC/Missile Turret/Hellion to defend, though. I'm not really sure. i have like 4-5 banshees, 2 Thors and maybe 2-3 BC with a PF Wall at my 3rd and turret rings at my production+minerals. I just died in my games because i underestimate the strength of corrupters. You need really early Ravens to deflect their attacks. Maybe after 3-4 BC you should start Raven production. Sorry, I'm not sure we're on the same page: At about 12-13 minutes, the Zerg has 30+ Roaches attacking your front. Alternatively, at around 12 minutes, the Zerg has 13+ Mutalisks and 50+ Zerglings attacking and counter-attacking you constantly. The last option is he's on 3-4 bases with 60-80 Drones and may be teching to Hive depending on how many units you're forcing.
At least, these are the situations I've been in. You can probably swap the compositions around a bit depending on what he scouts from you. Edit: I forgot to mention, these numbers are guesses from experience.
When do you have 2-3 BC's, 2 Thors, 4-5 Banshees, a PF, and Missile Turrets everywhere, and how much stuff do you have at 12-13 minutes?
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On July 12 2012 22:23 Fencar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 21:55 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 21:50 Fencar wrote:On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond. IMO that would die to an aggressive Zerg who goes Muta/Ling or Roach and attacks before your production really ramps up and you get enough BC's to survive. There might be a way to transition using Tank/BC/Missile Turret/Hellion to defend, though. I'm not really sure. i have like 4-5 banshees, 2 Thors and maybe 2-3 BC with a PF Wall at my 3rd and turret rings at my production+minerals. I just died in my games because i underestimate the strength of corrupters. You need really early Ravens to deflect their attacks. Maybe after 3-4 BC you should start Raven production. Sorry, I'm not sure we're on the same page: At about 12-13 minutes, the Zerg has 30+ Roaches attacking your front. Alternatively, at around 12 minutes, the Zerg has 13+ Mutalisks and 50+ Zerglings attacking and counter-attacking you constantly. The last option is he's on 3-4 bases with 60-80 Drones and may be teching to Hive depending on how many units you're forcing. At least, these are the situations I've been in. You can probably swap the compositions around a bit depending on what he scouts from you. Edit: I forgot to mention, these numbers are guesses from experience. When do you have 2-3 BC's, 2 Thors, 4-5 Banshees, a PF, and Missile Turrets everywhere, and how much stuff do you have at 12-13 minutes?
ok ich checked my build and i start 2-3 bc's at the 14Min Mark. Until now i never faced a roach max at 13 Min.
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On July 13 2012 03:56 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 22:23 Fencar wrote:On July 12 2012 21:55 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 21:50 Fencar wrote:On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond. IMO that would die to an aggressive Zerg who goes Muta/Ling or Roach and attacks before your production really ramps up and you get enough BC's to survive. There might be a way to transition using Tank/BC/Missile Turret/Hellion to defend, though. I'm not really sure. i have like 4-5 banshees, 2 Thors and maybe 2-3 BC with a PF Wall at my 3rd and turret rings at my production+minerals. I just died in my games because i underestimate the strength of corrupters. You need really early Ravens to deflect their attacks. Maybe after 3-4 BC you should start Raven production. Sorry, I'm not sure we're on the same page: At about 12-13 minutes, the Zerg has 30+ Roaches attacking your front. Alternatively, at around 12 minutes, the Zerg has 13+ Mutalisks and 50+ Zerglings attacking and counter-attacking you constantly. The last option is he's on 3-4 bases with 60-80 Drones and may be teching to Hive depending on how many units you're forcing. At least, these are the situations I've been in. You can probably swap the compositions around a bit depending on what he scouts from you. Edit: I forgot to mention, these numbers are guesses from experience. When do you have 2-3 BC's, 2 Thors, 4-5 Banshees, a PF, and Missile Turrets everywhere, and how much stuff do you have at 12-13 minutes? ok ich checked my build and i start 2-3 bc's at the 14Min Mark. Until now i never faced a roach max at 13 Min. Well it's not a max out since the Zerg can't take a 4:30 third base, but it is a lot of Roaches.
Do you mind uploading a replay? I think it would be much easier to check that out and see everything there.
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On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond.
http://drop.sc/218736
This is me beating Xlord with sky terran, it goes a bit mental towards the end when the game turns away from big engagements and into 'base trade' esque harassment, but I hope you get the pciture. Going straight into air terran is way too risky, you'll die to mass ling/roach everytime. You have to establish your economy with tanks before making the switch!
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Awesome guy, met him on ladder and he showed this to me to help me out. 
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On July 16 2012 22:18 LemonyTang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond. http://drop.sc/218736This is me beating Xlord with sky terran, it goes a bit mental towards the end when the game turns away from big engagements and into 'base trade' esque harassment, but I hope you get the pciture. Going straight into air terran is way too risky, you'll die to mass ling/roach everytime. You have to establish your economy with tanks before making the switch!
Nice game Sir! Now imma start playing mech again ^:D Thanks alotie!
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Could you please update this with things like a picture for Condemned Ridge? Thanks.
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On July 22 2012 08:37 Freeze967 wrote:
Could you please update this with things like a picture for Condemned Ridge? Thanks.
Sure, I'll get on this tomorrow!
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i always play mech and play rly thor heavy and add ravens for hunter seeker and vikings if i see blord , what do you think bout it? after like 5 factory production i add 2-4 starports. im currently master rank 30 and seems to work for me
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On July 22 2012 15:04 coldscars wrote:
i always play mech and play rly thor heavy and add ravens for hunter seeker and vikings if i see blord , what do you think bout it? after like 5 factory production i add 2-4 starports. im currently master rank 30 and seems to work for me This is similar to what I do, it works like a charm.
You have to watch out for mass Roach attacks though, you have to get at least 3-5 Siege Tanks to defend those, as well as having at least that many with your main army when you push to kill Infestors which try to NP your Thors and throw down mass Infested Terrans, and to make sure 200/200 Roach doesn't insta-roll your army if you don't push out at max supply.
Edit: You also want to make sure to add more Factories, since your main army is still Thor/Hellion/Tank, and you have to be really careful about adding Ravens and Vikings since they're useless(or less cost-effective than using more Tanks and Thors) if the Zerg does something like mass Roach/Infestor for the entire game.
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every zerg is so bm lol in every replay i see..its like "why you cry terrans your race imba."
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On July 22 2012 15:04 coldscars wrote:
i always play mech and play rly thor heavy and add ravens for hunter seeker and vikings if i see blord , what do you think bout it? after like 5 factory production i add 2-4 starports. im currently master rank 30 and seems to work for me
need a few siege tanks, like 5-10, for banelings and neuraling infestors, but otherwise it works
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3-4 tanks are enough 5-10 tanks is overkill. waste of supply
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On July 22 2012 16:11 coldscars wrote:
3-4 tanks are enough 5-10 tanks is overkill. waste of supply
waste of supply..? you can argue that 3-4 tanks is enough but 5-10 tanks is certainly not waste of supply. 3-4 does not totally eliminate the possibility of banelings, nor infestors. But each to his own I guess.
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On July 22 2012 08:37 Freeze967 wrote:
Could you please update this with things like a picture for Condemned Ridge? Thanks.
Condemned Ridge is a very unique map in the ladder pool right now. Unlike maps like Antiga or Entombed, there aren't any obvious high ground locations to put your units to be safe. This means that the way I like to play CR is to take the initiative. I try to be as offensive as possible with hellions and banshees, and using the banshees proactively means that you can be a bit more straightforward in your defensive positioning.
Here is two replays of me playing CR with this kind of style.
http://drop.sc/200631
http://drop.sc/226196
In these replays you should notice some things which I'll try to talk about below.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oDaB6.jpg)
First of all, your natural is a very big area. This means it takes a long time to have enough buildings to 'zone' within it, so don't worry about your bunker covering everything. Your main goal with the bunker is to cover the mineral line and to have a low surface area to stop it dying to zerglings. Then, later in the game, you'll want to wall off the natural with depots. I put X's where you can put depots that I neglected to in this replay, and you should use the big area behind your gas for more production buildings. In the picture they're factories, but they can just as well be starports.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2OiSv.jpg)
When you take the third, it's obvious it's such a huge area that you can't really abuse anything to defend it. This means you have to be proactive. As you can see, I circled where my hellions are and my banshees. I'm trying to make sure I know if his army moves out and can react as early as possible, but also by having my banshees ready there, I can keep him penned in until mutas come at least. You can also keep your reinforcements rallied to your natural ramp so that your main is safe.
CR is also a huge huge map. It's great for late game TvZ with sky terran because you can take so many bases. Typically, once I'm approaching max, I build a CC at every single base on my side of the map and morph into orbitals. You can always lift if they get attacked, but the map is so huge you can easily play greedy like this.
If, as is often the case, zerg goes muta then it's okay to spam turrets. I usually put 2 in every mineral line, 2 in my main to help thors popping out and then as many as I want in the area infront of my army - i do this on all maps. Usually I build 2-4 turrets at the front for a number of reasons. They help take down muta, they're cheap cannon fodder to buffer more damage and they create chokes jerg has to funnel through.
I hope this helps!
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On July 16 2012 22:18 LemonyTang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 21:36 saaaa wrote:On July 12 2012 20:36 LemonyTang wrote:On July 12 2012 20:06 saaaa wrote:
Is pure Air i meant Raven/BC viable?
I try it a few times but just get neuraled to death by Infestors? Because i can not get my HSM's off to destroy the Infestors and if i move my BC in range they get neuraled. And i have to move them because with his BL's he damaged my PF walls.
Do i need tanks with this composition to cover my units from neural+fungal? Do i need vikings to close the distance between my Air units and his? What is the solution for this?
It's definitely viable. You want to use yamato to kill as many infestors with high energy as possible in the battles, but you'll also need some vikings to beef out your composition. It's really hard to deal with someone who just goes pure infestor and neurals every single battlecruiser, but if he has no corruptors you can land vikings to kill them. That said, it is useful to have 3-4 tanks covering your army from ground units, because queens are actually a huge deal in engagements and so having tanks to kill those off helps a bunch. sure i forgot queens O.o do you have any replays for me where you played just BC/Raven? In fact, in your opinion BC+Raven+Viking and some Back up tanks is the best possible composition? Do you sometimes play directly air terran? I try a 1 rax FE with reactor hellion+cloak banshee to maybe deny his 3rd base and then transition with 3 Starport and double upgrades into BC/Raven. In my opinion its really strong but i'm just diamond. http://drop.sc/218736This is me beating Xlord with sky terran, it goes a bit mental towards the end when the game turns away from big engagements and into 'base trade' esque harassment, but I hope you get the pciture. Going straight into air terran is way too risky, you'll die to mass ling/roach everytime. You have to establish your economy with tanks before making the switch!
Instead of stubbornly trying to match your air army by building all those corruptors he could have just went ultra roach and killed off your bases. In the end of the game he sort of did that with the roaches, and despite it being too late for him to make a comback, he still managed to make it closer. If he had done that earlier idk If you could have defended. Once your production was killed off then he could have worn down your remaining army with fungal and corruptors. That guy just didn't adapt to the situation and thought his gglords could win him the game.
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EPT
