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http://drop.sc/226146
I'm trying to learn how to mech.
Things I did wrong:
-Scouting for Zergs T2, even though I hardly took any damage, I knew way to late what unit was coming.
-To inactive with my Hellions. I did 2 runby's which both did good damage, I should do more of those.
-Expand to a third quite late, and get it denied a couple of times.
-Not expand during my Hive Timing 'doom push'.
-Not adding appropriate infrastructure in time.
-Deciding I needed a Starport and doing pretty much nothing with it.
-Having no idea of Army control.
-Getting my first attempted third killed by my own Siege Tanks (Tanks doing more damage to my CC than to the lings attacking them is retarded btw).
I'm very unfamiliar with mech. Recently, I changed hotkey setup, got a new laptop + new mouse, started playing Random and dropped a league doing so, causing me to play slow and kinda sloppy.
I'm sorry about the language in the end, I felt extremely frustrated that I lost to a Zerg whom I feel was inferior (losing tons of mutas for no damage, letting me kill a lot of drones with runby's, NOT EVEN SCOUTING TO CHECK MY RACE, going 3 macrohatch before queens it felt like, and did nothing but 1a his broodlords and roaches...
Any help would be appreciated, especially on the macro front 
Kind Regards
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I have been having so much fun against mech lately. Not only do the terrans play the style more because they can't handle the marine splitting bio-tank playstyle, but they give me juicy practice time against an otherwise unplayed style.
I have just gotten a reasonable third ( roughly 40 supply-ish ) and a lair after starting my first upgrade ( usually carapace ). Once the lair is started I start 6 roaches and defend against hellion attacks on my third, or trap them in my natural if they do decide to run by. When the lair is done, I immediately start building overseers, roughly 5 or 6. Any zerg that is having trouble against mech should try overseers.
Because Mech is so extremely reliant on getting early thors out to deal with a potential mutalisk techswitch, they skimp on any other anti-air like marines. This gives you the perfect oppertunity to go for a mass contaminate on the techlabbed factories and bum-rush his PF third with a large roach force. If your timings are good enough, the terran won't have enough Thors out to contest you killing the third and sniping SCV's. Even if he was going for a 2 base push, you delay it so much that you can get out an absolutely rediculously huge roach force with 6 infestors that will stomp any delayed mech force with infested terran spam and roach swarming.
If any of the well versed in mech could come up with a potential way to counteract this style, please enlighten me. Because unless you have atleast 5 marines out at the exact right place you can't stop 6 overseers from floating through your main and not get atleast 3 contaminates off.
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Turrets?
I always make a turretring shortly after 3rd
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What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe?
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On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe?
MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first.
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United Kingdom12056 Posts
I've been meching in all my TvZ games recently as I've always found the more passive styles a hell of a lot more fun to play. I probably win more than I should as zergs at my level (platinum and diamond atm) seem to not know how to deal with it, but I basically super turtle and know that I'm super safe against anything they throw against me.
I get my third and make sure I have equal defense at both my third and natural with some walls to stop lings and slowly push out to take a fourth. When I'm on my fourth base it usually means I've got a good foothold and can start to split the map with turrets, more engineering bay walls and planetaries to help out against any ground armies. When I can get that to happen I know I'm in a decent position.
I try and make sure to hurass with thor drops and hellions depending what the zergs doing and I transition into a lot of ghosts for nukes later on against broodlords as they really help keep me defended. It may be boring and me winning may be completely luck based, but super turtling is working out for me at the moment as I usually just rip through any army that comes at me.
Almost lost a game to losing all my vikings before to a load of infestors today though x_x
For anyone interested my composition is usually mostly tanks with some thors and hellions mixed in, and I start building vikings very early as people usually try and get quick hive for Broodlords against me.
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On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first.
MKP said. That's why most of us should go for 1 Rax FE. He can defend crazy stuff (and even won with CC first against 6 pool  ).
CC First is good though. It depends on Map i think.
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On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first.
can you send me the link to this interview?
How many seconds is the normal reactor hellion+cloak banshee delayed? Do you know this, lemony? (or others, too)
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On July 27 2012 06:05 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first. can you send me the link to this interview? How many seconds is the normal reactor hellion+cloak banshee delayed? Do you know this, lemony? (or others, too)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355346
Here's the interview. I've no idea how long it's delayed sorry, but I don't think it's loads.
^^ re: Not everyone has the micro of MKP, this is true, but to be honest defending from zerg all ins isn't very micro intensive if you go hellion/cb. You set all your scvs to right click the bunker and auto-repair, use your banshees to either amove (okay) or rightclick on roaches to kill them all (good) and then spend all your micro on hellions, dodging forwards and back to make his roaches indecisive and kill any lings. Obviously target banelings first if you can, but yeah, it's easy.
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On July 27 2012 08:39 LemonyTang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 06:05 saaaa wrote:On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first. can you send me the link to this interview? How many seconds is the normal reactor hellion+cloak banshee delayed? Do you know this, lemony? (or others, too) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355346Here's the interview. I've no idea how long it's delayed sorry, but I don't think it's loads. ^^ re: Not everyone has the micro of MKP, this is true, but to be honest defending from zerg all ins isn't very micro intensive if you go hellion/cb. You set all your scvs to right click the bunker and auto-repair, use your banshees to either amove (okay) or rightclick on roaches to kill them all (good) and then spend all your micro on hellions, dodging forwards and back to make his roaches indecisive and kill any lings. Obviously target banelings first if you can, but yeah, it's easy.
great thx here are some really surprising facts:
The 15CC build doesn't delay anything. In fact you are faster than a normal No Gas FE because, you get your 1st Gas @ 3:05. That means you get your 1st gas like 30 seconds earlier compared to a No Gas FE (3:30-3:35). That accumlate and you get your starport with no 15CC @ 5:30 with a No Gas FE @ 4:45-5:00.
In economy you have with a No Gas FE like 45 @ 10:00 and with a 15CC 5-7 more, depends how flawless you execute your build.
I think thats really interesting and it shows that we all start to use 15CC. The only thing i'am worried about is the fact that the players in my replays, which i analyze did'nt build a bunker - maybe early lings can be a problem. But maybe we can trhough down the bunker when both CC are morphing.
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On July 27 2012 18:56 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 08:39 LemonyTang wrote:On July 27 2012 06:05 saaaa wrote:On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first. can you send me the link to this interview? How many seconds is the normal reactor hellion+cloak banshee delayed? Do you know this, lemony? (or others, too) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355346Here's the interview. I've no idea how long it's delayed sorry, but I don't think it's loads. ^^ re: Not everyone has the micro of MKP, this is true, but to be honest defending from zerg all ins isn't very micro intensive if you go hellion/cb. You set all your scvs to right click the bunker and auto-repair, use your banshees to either amove (okay) or rightclick on roaches to kill them all (good) and then spend all your micro on hellions, dodging forwards and back to make his roaches indecisive and kill any lings. Obviously target banelings first if you can, but yeah, it's easy. great thx here are some really surprising facts: The 15CC build doesn't delay anything. In fact you are faster than a normal No Gas FE because, you get your 1st Gas @ 3:05. That means you get your 1st gas like 30 seconds earlier compared to a No Gas FE (3:30-3:35). That accumlate and you get your starport with no 15CC @ 5:30 with a No Gas FE @ 4:45-5:00. In economy you have with a No Gas FE like 45 @ 10:00 and with a 15CC 5-7 more, depends how flawless you execute your build. I think thats really interesting and it shows that we all start to use 15CC. The only thing i'am worried about is the fact that the players in my replays, which i analyze did'nt build a bunker - maybe early lings can be a problem. But maybe we can trhough down the bunker when both CC are morphing.
are there any good replays of seeing MKP using CC first in TvZ so I can see what he does?
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On July 27 2012 21:02 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 18:56 saaaa wrote:On July 27 2012 08:39 LemonyTang wrote:On July 27 2012 06:05 saaaa wrote:On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first. can you send me the link to this interview? How many seconds is the normal reactor hellion+cloak banshee delayed? Do you know this, lemony? (or others, too) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355346Here's the interview. I've no idea how long it's delayed sorry, but I don't think it's loads. ^^ re: Not everyone has the micro of MKP, this is true, but to be honest defending from zerg all ins isn't very micro intensive if you go hellion/cb. You set all your scvs to right click the bunker and auto-repair, use your banshees to either amove (okay) or rightclick on roaches to kill them all (good) and then spend all your micro on hellions, dodging forwards and back to make his roaches indecisive and kill any lings. Obviously target banelings first if you can, but yeah, it's easy. great thx here are some really surprising facts: The 15CC build doesn't delay anything. In fact you are faster than a normal No Gas FE because, you get your 1st Gas @ 3:05. That means you get your 1st gas like 30 seconds earlier compared to a No Gas FE (3:30-3:35). That accumlate and you get your starport with no 15CC @ 5:30 with a No Gas FE @ 4:45-5:00. In economy you have with a No Gas FE like 45 @ 10:00 and with a 15CC 5-7 more, depends how flawless you execute your build. I think thats really interesting and it shows that we all start to use 15CC. The only thing i'am worried about is the fact that the players in my replays, which i analyze did'nt build a bunker - maybe early lings can be a problem. But maybe we can trhough down the bunker when both CC are morphing. are there any good replays of seeing MKP using CC first in TvZ so I can see what he does?
MKP does a pretty standard 15CC -> 15 rax, start adding SCVs and get a second rax... then from there it depends on what you want from a midgame push. MMA/MKP sometimes add a 3rd rax, get double gas, then go for a +1/+1 timing with bio and medivacs. I've seen MKP go double gas after the 2 rax, add a factory (with a reactor), and go for marine/hellion/medivac pressure sort of like you would do with a 1 rax no gas FE into double gas. There is a lot of variability, and honestly you can do basicly anything you would do after a 1 rax no gas FE with just slightly different timings due to the CC first.
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On July 27 2012 21:43 MLG_Wiggin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 21:02 Chaggi wrote:On July 27 2012 18:56 saaaa wrote:On July 27 2012 08:39 LemonyTang wrote:On July 27 2012 06:05 saaaa wrote:On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first. can you send me the link to this interview? How many seconds is the normal reactor hellion+cloak banshee delayed? Do you know this, lemony? (or others, too) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355346Here's the interview. I've no idea how long it's delayed sorry, but I don't think it's loads. ^^ re: Not everyone has the micro of MKP, this is true, but to be honest defending from zerg all ins isn't very micro intensive if you go hellion/cb. You set all your scvs to right click the bunker and auto-repair, use your banshees to either amove (okay) or rightclick on roaches to kill them all (good) and then spend all your micro on hellions, dodging forwards and back to make his roaches indecisive and kill any lings. Obviously target banelings first if you can, but yeah, it's easy. great thx here are some really surprising facts: The 15CC build doesn't delay anything. In fact you are faster than a normal No Gas FE because, you get your 1st Gas @ 3:05. That means you get your 1st gas like 30 seconds earlier compared to a No Gas FE (3:30-3:35). That accumlate and you get your starport with no 15CC @ 5:30 with a No Gas FE @ 4:45-5:00. In economy you have with a No Gas FE like 45 @ 10:00 and with a 15CC 5-7 more, depends how flawless you execute your build. I think thats really interesting and it shows that we all start to use 15CC. The only thing i'am worried about is the fact that the players in my replays, which i analyze did'nt build a bunker - maybe early lings can be a problem. But maybe we can trhough down the bunker when both CC are morphing. are there any good replays of seeing MKP using CC first in TvZ so I can see what he does? MKP does a pretty standard 15CC -> 15 rax, start adding SCVs and get a second rax... then from there it depends on what you want from a midgame push. MMA/MKP sometimes add a 3rd rax, get double gas, then go for a +1/+1 timing with bio and medivacs. I've seen MKP go double gas after the 2 rax, add a factory (with a reactor), and go for marine/hellion/medivac pressure sort of like you would do with a 1 rax no gas FE into double gas. There is a lot of variability, and honestly you can do basicly anything you would do after a 1 rax no gas FE with just slightly different timings due to the CC first.
yeah but the only player who goes mech after 15CC is Mvp so far. MKP and MMA only went 15CC if they play bio heavy.
The Reactor Hellion+Cloakshee Build with 2 Armory was out of a 1 Rax FE of MKP.
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What do you think about ghosts versus the air transition into BC/Raven/Vinking?
I not sure what i should add after my get 4th+5th Base. Should i add some ghosts? They are still amazing in my opinion because you can nuke/kill hatches and kill a lot of larvae and deny the zerg the instant remax which is crucial.
You have the chance to kill his whole army with a lucky nuke and you can nuke his tech and kill every tech building. Even you can take out creap with nukes not really cost effective but you can.
And you can EMP infestor thats the most relevant point in my opinion.
Battlecrusiers and Raven is a really scary composition with some vikings mixed in and if you play the late game correct it's really difficult to loose the game.
I'am interested in your opinions maybe we can add both types into our "standard" play.
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On July 27 2012 06:05 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 02:02 LemonyTang wrote:On July 26 2012 14:49 saaaa wrote:
What do you guys think about a 1 rax FE vs. CC first?
Is it viable in every case? I think about it to change all my builds (mostly 1 rax fe+reactor hellion with Cloak Banshee) into a 15 CC build to get the "extra" economy. Is it viable or should i just stay at my standard 1rax fe? MKP said it best in a recent interview that the only way zerg can punish CC first is a 6pool, so I definitely reccomend you start going CC first. can you send me the link to this interview? How many seconds is the normal reactor hellion+cloak banshee delayed? Do you know this, lemony? (or others, too)
Gas first reactor hellion (ie 11-12 gas, 13 rax) gets hellions around 5:00.
Standard old-school reactor hellion (12 rax, 13-14 gas) gets hellions around 5:30
Thorzain's build (12 rax, rally 15 refinery) gets hellions around 5:50 I think. Actually not sure even though its my standard build more or less )
CC first gets 6:30 hellions.
Gasless expand without 2nd supply (12 rax, 15 orbital, 16 cc, 16 refinery x2, then supply depot) gets hellions around 6:30
and finally: Gasless expand with 2nd supply (same build but supply depot before cc) gets hellions around 7 min.
The Banshee timings are obviously quite related to these timings.
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is there any chance of getting more recent replays?
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On August 07 2012 21:22 saaaa wrote:
What do you think about ghosts versus the air transition into BC/Raven/Vinking?
I not sure what i should add after my get 4th+5th Base. Should i add some ghosts? They are still amazing in my opinion because you can nuke/kill hatches and kill a lot of larvae and deny the zerg the instant remax which is crucial.
You have the chance to kill his whole army with a lucky nuke and you can nuke his tech and kill every tech building. Even you can take out creap with nukes not really cost effective but you can.
And you can EMP infestor thats the most relevant point in my opinion.
Battlecrusiers and Raven is a really scary composition with some vikings mixed in and if you play the late game correct it's really difficult to loose the game.
I'am interested in your opinions maybe we can add both types into our "standard" play.
noone i'am still really unsure about this.
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so I have a question for any master league mech players who happen to stumble upon it-
when I play mech against zerg, im decent at getting my 3ccs up and going at a reasonable rate, also I have good enough positioning (most times) to be able to deal with any roach attacks off of 3 bases and mutalisk harrass before the lategame. The problem that I often have is how to get back on the offensive. I often feel that by the time I am moving out (towards the zerg 4th or 5th depending on how they have been expanding) the zerg has hive tech up and ready for me and I have to retreat/hope to not lose too much as I scramble to get my raven/vikings out. It often goes downhill from there as I pretty much have to let them have map control and hope that I can win one big engagement, but my comp is often too far behind the zergs and I get stomped.
I open up with no banshees, often in a totally defensive position and hope that my hellion harrass can do enough damage or at least force enough units to slow down his lategame tech. Am I making any fundamental mistakes with this strategy? Im pretty good at not making any of the classic mistakes with mech (moving unseiged onto creep, not being ready for muta tech switches, etc.) I think I can best summarize my problem by saying that Im good at not dying, but Im bad at being able to kill my opponent. Ile upload some reps as soon as I figure out how, but if anyone reads this and detects a big problem with my strat, any pointers would be welcome
http://drop.sc/238738
http://drop.sc/238737
http://drop.sc/238736
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EPT
