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sup sons. just completed a few searches in the strat forum pertaining to *see title*, didnt find any relevant discussion (atleast nothign recent)
cutting to the chase: im a diamond macro zerg that wants to talk about hotkeys, control groups, and mechanics. i guess ill start by giving a rundown of how i operate currently!
control groups:
Q - all hatches
~ - all tech buildings
1 - main army control group
2 - secondary army control group
3 - harass/3rd army control group
4 - scout/misc drones etc
5 - only really used to group queen/drones from a base under attack while i run them away
fwd-mouse - 2nd scout overlord
back-mouse - initial scout overlord
scroll-wheel - all queens
the backspace and spacebar functions are also switched, for basecam-cycle injects
which brings me to the mechanics!
i prefer to have all queens on the mouse scroll-wheel button, and do my injects by selecting all queens and then cycling bases with a v-click in between cycles. generally ill have 3 queens for injecting by the midgame and often more which i will use for injects on other hatches or for tumors or for defending depending on the situation.
i prefer to rally my hatches to one central location, preferably behind a buffer zone of several creep tumors.
when i morph larvae into units, i make a habit of ctrl-clicking the eggs and hotkeying them to the appropriate group as im morphing them. it keeps things organized and saved me the trouble of rounding up my units and hotkeying them on the fly. i suppose essentially its like treating the zerg macro mechanics as a filing system. it makes sense to me that since you can rally the eggs and have them all selected at once, that you should assign them a control group hotkey at the same time. work smarter, not harder!
lastly i feel i should mention that i did re-map a few of the default hotkeys for units.
i try to bind my upgrades to A-S-D (exception: hatches - which are bound to Z-X-C)
F - infestor
E - queen (since Q is rebound for hatcheries)
R - burrow (i think the default is E?)
Z - pooping creep, changlings etc
X - contaminate
i basically assign as many keys as possible to the (for lack of better word) grid on the left. tbh im not even 100% sure what exactly grid is, but by my own definition my keys are bound in a gridlike fashion. i have it set up like this for simplicitys sake, and also so i can play random with fewer keys to memorize.
1 more thing id like to add before concluding this longwinded OP, is that changelings are by far the best scouting resource a zerg has, and should be used much more frequently. changelings can hold a xel naga tower, and when pooped out in groups of 2-4, are demanding on an opponents multitasking during the mid-late game.
anyways, if anyone cares to read this and/or provide some of their own insights, that would be great. im all about streamlining/automating as many operations as i can in sc2 so that i can focus more intently on what really matters - strategy and execution!
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Just do what works. Nobody can tell you whats best for you.
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On February 01 2012 08:12 Mr Showtime wrote:
Just do what works. Nobody can tell you whats best for you.
If he want's to start a discussion and get ideas from other people, that's his prerogative. Maybe someone will tell him what;s best for him.
One thing I like about not using the "backspace" inject method is that I have much better queen control against hellion/banshees/voidrays. Also I wanted to kill queens so many times when they went wandering.
I also tried to make upgrade hotkeys more intuitive: C = Cara, A = Range Attack and X = Melee attack.
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I use the most standard settings possible with hotkeys. I tried to switch them back in the days, but eventually figured I'm spending more time to get used to the new layout, than actually getting better with mechanics
As for control groups, really only 4 (hatcheries) and 5 (queens) are constant, rest depends on stage of the game and what units I have. Early game is usually 1 - lings, 2 - banes, then when mutas and infestors comes in, 1 - lings/blings, 2 - mutas, 3 infestors
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I found myself not injecting with more than 3 queen groups in the mid to late game so i moved from using "55v66v77v88v"
to "qqvwwveevrrvttv". My injects got better but I had to ladder for 2 days to get the rest in place. ( I had a lot bound to qwer keys).
I guess if you use backspace that won't be of any use though. Binding individual queens help me spread creep and control them versus reaper harass etc.
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I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed.
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On February 01 2012 08:20 CookieMaker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 08:12 Mr Showtime wrote:
Just do what works. Nobody can tell you whats best for you. If he want's to start a discussion and get ideas from other people, that's his prerogative. Maybe someone will tell him what;s best for him.
I just did that. He should use what feels best to him. Obviously there are terrible inefficient ways to layout the hotkeys, but he hasn't done that. So do what is most comfortable.
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On February 01 2012 09:03 Iksf wrote:
I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed.
As a suggestion, never bind hatches individually. I made mention in my previous post about doing what is comfortable, but it can't be inefficient. This is. All the hatches should be bound together and queens bound individually. I strongly suggest at least making this change. It's not too much different from what you have done, and it is far more efficient. The general consensus is that you do this, or the "backspace method" (such a weird name for it since most people re-bind the key to something other than backspace).
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On February 01 2012 05:31 bagina wrote:
control groups:
Q - all hatches
~ - all tech buildings
1 - main army control group
2 - secondary army control group
3 - harass/3rd army control group
4 - scout/misc drones etc
5 - only really used to group queen/drones from a base under attack while i run them away
fwd-mouse - 2nd scout overlord
back-mouse - initial scout overlord
scroll-wheel - all queens
Why not put your tech buildings in the same group as your queens?
You've also missed a trick: give hatcheries an alternate 'select larvae' hotkey as 'd' (so that you can hit 's' OR 'd' to select larvae). Congratulations, you can now simply hold down 'd' and let your keyboard repeat rate instantly morph a drone as soon as a larvae becomes available!
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I have seen sheth bind all his hatcherys inividually and then when he injects he doubleclick and boxes the queen, inject. Anyone know the reason why he doesnt bind the queen instead or queen+hatch?
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I use 1-3 for units, 4-7 for hatches. 8-0 all hatches/or something else of necessary
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On February 01 2012 05:31 bagina wrote:+ Show Spoiler +sup sons. just completed a few searches in the strat forum pertaining to *see title*, didnt find any relevant discussion (atleast nothign recent)
cutting to the chase: im a diamond macro zerg that wants to talk about hotkeys, control groups, and mechanics. i guess ill start by giving a rundown of how i operate currently!
control groups:
Q - all hatches
~ - all tech buildings
1 - main army control group
2 - secondary army control group
3 - harass/3rd army control group
4 - scout/misc drones etc
5 - only really used to group queen/drones from a base under attack while i run them away
fwd-mouse - 2nd scout overlord
back-mouse - initial scout overlord
scroll-wheel - all queens
the backspace and spacebar functions are also switched, for basecam-cycle injects
which brings me to the mechanics!
i prefer to have all queens on the mouse scroll-wheel button, and do my injects by selecting all queens and then cycling bases with a v-click in between cycles. generally ill have 3 queens for injecting by the midgame and often more which i will use for injects on other hatches or for tumors or for defending depending on the situation.
i prefer to rally my hatches to one central location, preferably behind a buffer zone of several creep tumors.
when i morph larvae into units, i make a habit of ctrl-clicking the eggs and hotkeying them to the appropriate group as im morphing them. it keeps things organized and saved me the trouble of rounding up my units and hotkeying them on the fly. i suppose essentially its like treating the zerg macro mechanics as a filing system. it makes sense to me that since you can rally the eggs and have them all selected at once, that you should assign them a control group hotkey at the same time. work smarter, not harder!
lastly i feel i should mention that i did re-map a few of the default hotkeys for units.
i try to bind my upgrades to A-S-D (exception: hatches - which are bound to Z-X-C)
F - infestor
E - queen (since Q is rebound for hatcheries)
R - burrow (i think the default is E?)
Z - pooping creep, changlings etc
X - contaminate
i basically assign as many keys as possible to the (for lack of better word) grid on the left. tbh im not even 100% sure what exactly grid is, but by my own definition my keys are bound in a gridlike fashion. i have it set up like this for simplicitys sake, and also so i can play random with fewer keys to memorize.
1 more thing id like to add before concluding this longwinded OP, is that changelings are by far the best scouting resource a zerg has, and should be used much more frequently. changelings can hold a xel naga tower, and when pooped out in groups of 2-4, are demanding on an opponents multitasking during the mid-late game.
anyways, if anyone cares to read this and/or provide some of their own insights, that would be great. im all about streamlining/automating as many operations as i can in sc2 so that i can focus more intently on what really matters - strategy and execution!
Thanks for this, although i've searched and tried different hotkey setups I really like this one and will try to incorporate it in my play. Not sure how you bind to Q and ~ but surely there are some options somwhere to do this. Really like it. My current hotkey setup is something I really need to change and improve.
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I use darkgrid.
All hatches on one side button on the mouse, all queens on another. Base cameras on alt+q, alt+w, alt+a, alt+s, alt+d and alt+f. Inject by selecting all queens, press and hold shift, press e, hold alt and press qwasdf (or the bases i want to inject). Army bulk on g, mutas on v, lings on r, banes on 4, infestors on space... Yeah I can continue forever, darkgrid is just so optimal.
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On February 01 2012 09:36 dabosaur wrote:
I have seen sheth bind all his hatcherys inividually and then when he injects he doubleclick and boxes the queen, inject. Anyone know the reason why he doesnt bind the queen instead or queen+hatch?
Individual hatch hotkeys allows you to set rally points for each base. Suppose that your opponent plants his army between your natural and 3rd - you'll want to rally the 3rd separately so reinforcements don't run into enemy troops. Additionally, when you have a single hatchery on a hotkey you can check its injection status without jumping away.
I've also noticed that a lot of Korean players use the box queen method for injects. It's a surefire way to avoid wandering queens, as well as useful when queens start dying.
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On February 01 2012 18:17 zylog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:36 dabosaur wrote:
I have seen sheth bind all his hatcherys inividually and then when he injects he doubleclick and boxes the queen, inject. Anyone know the reason why he doesnt bind the queen instead or queen+hatch? Individual hatch hotkeys allows you to set rally points for each base. Suppose that your opponent plants his army between your natural and 3rd - you'll want to rally the 3rd separately so reinforcements don't run into enemy troops. Additionally, when you have a single hatchery on a hotkey you can check its injection status without jumping away. I've also noticed that a lot of Korean players use the box queen method for injects. It's a surefire way to avoid wandering queens, as well as useful when queens start dying.
Both are true for proper base cam use as well, only that base cams are way faster.
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I just change things as I see a need for them changed like ultralisk cavern, evo upgrades, nydus, prettymuch anything I would normally type with my right hand, that i'd need to do with my left.
I also changed build spore to B+G because B+A sometimes made me attack move all my drones if im not careful.
Evo is QWE with alternate as the original, MAC. So I end up pressing QAC ingame (melee, ranged, armor respectively).
Spire is QW with alternate as the orginial (whatever that is ^^)
I also moved 7-0 to F1-F4 since I don't currently use location hotkeys. Since my 7-0 are always tech buildings it seems pretty fitting. F1 evo, F2 evo, F3 spire, F4 baneling nest / roach warren / infestor pit / whatever tech im waiting on (mostly to look at, not to press stuff). I made 7=F1, 8=F2, 9=F3, 0=F4 so i can ctrl+7 and then tap F1, since i find it easier to do it that way.
If it matters to you, the control groups are
1. all hatches
2. all queens
3. army 1
4. army 2
5. both evos (or army 3 if i have broods or am not being lazy)
6. overseer/baneling trap/other
7. evo 1
8. evo 2
9. spire
0. tech im waiting on
I like the setup cuz it lets me rest my wrist and just pure pivot (other than hotkeying 6-0), so i dont have to jump and risk not being where i want on the keyboard.
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I have a different hotkey setup where 67890 is qwert, and all the other keys are on asdfgzxcvbnyuhnm
I have hatches on Q, one hatch on W to check on inject and E for queens, R is Evo and T is important tech, usually Spire
1-5 is army or extra hotkeys for tech
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I have mine setup using the default 'Grid' with the bottom row of keys (Z,X,C) rebinded to F1, F2, and F3 and the backspace center on hatch remapped to the spacebar which lets me do injects by selecting the 'All Queens' hotkey then pressing space, F2, click and repeat and is actually a pretty quick method of injection. The 'Backspace' injection method is also used by quite a few pros.
As for hotkeys, I have 1-3 as units, 4 as all hatcheries and 5 as all queens with 6 as upgrade/tech buildings.
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Am I the only one who uses 0 for all the hatches? :D I know it's not optimal but it's just hard to get used to anything else and I'm not willing to practice that instead of real games. I select all my bases by clicking on the 0 icon above the portrait area, not by double tapping 0. Really lame right? I honestly think it's lame but it works for me... I'm in mid-low masters.
One of these days I will change it though, I'm thinking of changing it to 3 instead for all hatches and also using ~ instead of backspace. I never used backspace.
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I also use backspace inject method, but I've changed backspace to alt. I find it more efficient
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It's just an example, but a good example, of how to approach keybinding. Using as many hotkeys as possible in the most comfortable positions, and rebinding everything possible just to make things faster and easier. It doesn't matter what specific keys you're using, because it depends on your personal preference, but it's really great way to approach it, for every race. Default hotkeys and grid hotkeys will never be as efficient as custom setup designed by the player himself and the faster you change it, the better.
I'm sad to see even pro players using 4 hotkeys in late game, just because they can't comfortably reach more, when you can rebind it to literaly any other position.
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On February 01 2012 19:25 gplayer wrote:
Am I the only one who uses 0 for all the hatches? :D
I have all hatches on '0' too!
...but '0' has been given an alternate hotkey on 'w'. 
I know it's not optimal but.... I'm not willing to practice that instead of real games.
What is a "real" game? Do you exclusively play in tournaments?
The whole point of playing for me is to practice to get better. There is no point trying to win, because I will win ~50% regardless. Instead, I focus on trying to get better at the game, which will lead to an improvement in skill, which will lead to more wins.
You accept that what you are doing could be improved, and change may lead to you being a better player, yet you do not change because you would lose games? If I lose a game, but I get better at the game, does it really matter that the game is lost?
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On February 01 2012 09:12 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:03 Iksf wrote:
I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed. As a suggestion, never bind hatches individually. I made mention in my previous post about doing what is comfortable, but it can't be inefficient. This is. All the hatches should be bound together and queens bound individually. I strongly suggest at least making this change. It's not too much different from what you have done, and it is far more efficient. The general consensus is that you do this, or the "backspace method" (such a weird name for it since most people re-bind the key to something other than backspace).
Works fine for me, it really helps my larva injects actually as I often double press the hatch hotkey which means i spend a lot of time looking at the hatchery get a pretty consistant 85%+ inject uptime. It also lets me ensure I have under 3 larva at all bases where possible.
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On February 01 2012 20:41 Iksf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:12 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 01 2012 09:03 Iksf wrote:
I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed. As a suggestion, never bind hatches individually. I made mention in my previous post about doing what is comfortable, but it can't be inefficient. This is. All the hatches should be bound together and queens bound individually. I strongly suggest at least making this change. It's not too much different from what you have done, and it is far more efficient. The general consensus is that you do this, or the "backspace method" (such a weird name for it since most people re-bind the key to something other than backspace). Works fine for me, it really helps my larva injects actually as I often double press the hatch hotkey which means i spend a lot of time looking at the hatchery get a pretty consistant 85%+ inject uptime. It also lets me ensure I have under 3 larva at all bases where possible.
Works fine for me as well.
I generally don't mind changing my habits, but I've decided this method is good for me too.
One hatch per hotkey from 4 to 8 (I don't hotkey the sixth and following hatches), cycling through them and choosing where to morph eggs from.
The shortcuts are set default, I haven't changed any of them.
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I use Grid and changed Backspace to Space for easier injects
1 - nothing
2 - broods / mutas
3 - secondary army (ring finger)
4 - main army (middle finger)
5 - hatches
6 - queens
T (attackbutton) - (index finger)
with this setup, everything is easy accesable,both armys + attackbutton is near hatcheries and queens and it istn to hard to relearn every hotkey, especially if you used grid before (btw can't understand why grid istn even standard ^^)
Cheers
Michael
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Hey, BW zergs built overlords with O, could select 12 zerglings max, had no multibuilding selection, and still didn't float minerals. I've been down the customization road in many other applications than starcraft, but really, It's all about practice.
So I just run with the standards. 1, 2, 3 i continuously swap to what I need at the moment, generally army/scout/harass, 4 is all hatcheries, 5-6-7... hatch+queen. If I think it's hard, it's because I suck, not because I need to change it. (plat/diamond level, fyi)
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On February 01 2012 20:56 Stimpk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 20:41 Iksf wrote:On February 01 2012 09:12 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 01 2012 09:03 Iksf wrote:
I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed. As a suggestion, never bind hatches individually. I made mention in my previous post about doing what is comfortable, but it can't be inefficient. This is. All the hatches should be bound together and queens bound individually. I strongly suggest at least making this change. It's not too much different from what you have done, and it is far more efficient. The general consensus is that you do this, or the "backspace method" (such a weird name for it since most people re-bind the key to something other than backspace). Works fine for me, it really helps my larva injects actually as I often double press the hatch hotkey which means i spend a lot of time looking at the hatchery get a pretty consistant 85%+ inject uptime. It also lets me ensure I have under 3 larva at all bases where possible. Works fine for me as well. I generally don't mind changing my habits, but I've decided this method is good for me too. One hatch per hotkey from 4 to 8 (I don't hotkey the sixth and following hatches), cycling through them and choosing where to morph eggs from. The shortcuts are set default, I haven't changed any of them.
Problem with this is that you limit your hotkeys massively. If you waste 4-8 on hatcheries, where do you put your queens, your bulk army, your infestors, your banelings, your mutas, your broodlords, your group of drop-defense etc. The problem is mainly that people aren't using enough hotkeys, so they waste them on individually selecting queens/hatches... while if you move to a good setup where every hotkey is within immediate reach, you can easily control group every unit individually and get massively better control.
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On February 01 2012 20:41 Iksf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:12 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 01 2012 09:03 Iksf wrote:
I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed. As a suggestion, never bind hatches individually. I made mention in my previous post about doing what is comfortable, but it can't be inefficient. This is. All the hatches should be bound together and queens bound individually. I strongly suggest at least making this change. It's not too much different from what you have done, and it is far more efficient. The general consensus is that you do this, or the "backspace method" (such a weird name for it since most people re-bind the key to something other than backspace). Works fine for me, it really helps my larva injects actually as I often double press the hatch hotkey which means i spend a lot of time looking at the hatchery get a pretty consistant 85%+ inject uptime. It also lets me ensure I have under 3 larva at all bases where possible.
Working "fine" is quite different from being optimal.
Let's say you have one larvae at each of your three hatcheries, and you want to make three units. Seems a common enough scenario...
Keybinding hatches:
Select Hatchery 1, select larvae, make unit
Select Hatchery 2, select larvae, make unit
Select Hatchery 3, select larvae, make unit
= 9 actions total
Keybinding queens:
Select Hatcheries (x3), select larvae, make unit, make unit, make unit
= 5 actions total
And if you are on 4 hatcheries (quite common), this becomes 12 actions vs 6 actions. It's very much less efficient.
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I changed most of the far-away hotkeys to F. Infestation pit, infestors, melee upgrades.
Besides from those, the rest of the hotkey changes you suggest aren't bad in the first place. Burrow is what, B or R as is, creep poop is g or c or v or something easy like that.
Changelings are pretty useless for their intended purpose (scouting inside opponent's base, following opponents army), but recently I've been finding them absolutely epic since the recent need for Zerg to incorporate mass overseers in late game armies (vs mothership play, vs mass ghost).
What I do is poop down 20 changelings, and grab every tower (if I havent already, often times if they grabbed it, they wont kill that changeling thats next to their unit and then they lose vision there since an enemy unit is in proximity and it becomes 'challenged'), and most important, place down changelings all over the map to track army movements. This is really useful when playing with BL which are super slow and susceptible to counter-attacks/base trades, as well as muta play to know where the opponent is trying to move his stalkers.
I mean it's literally so awesome. I always get overlord speed, and in all my games, I put overlords all over the map, that I literally have vision of the entire map. But you can't put overlords in the middle of the map. So for example on, say, Metalopolis, I'll make 20 changelings, and send like 3 to in front of each of his bases, and then like a bunch all along the routes on both sides of the map. Even better on wide open maps like Entombed Valley, I'll poop just a ton of changelings and just scatter them all about 20 yards in front of his base so I know wherever his army is at all times. You dont put the changelings at his bases or in his army, you just put them all around the place, so you can know where his army movements are.
Changelings are so fucking awesome. I reallyhope they don't remove the overseer. It's just so amazing to put changelings all around in front of the main, natural, third, and fourth, to know where the opponent has the bulk of their army, or if they ever move anywhere outside their base.
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my setup:
^ scouting stuff
1 melee
2 ranged
3 infestor / mutas (depends...)
4 hatches
5 creep queen
my other hotkeys are pretty close to the broodwar setup, the main differences are:
space switch through bases
tab hold position
i patrol
x larva inject
a ultralisk
r research burrow / burrow
f build infestor
I'm pretty comfortable with my setup. (dia zerg)
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On February 01 2012 21:12 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 20:56 Stimpk wrote:On February 01 2012 20:41 Iksf wrote:On February 01 2012 09:12 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 01 2012 09:03 Iksf wrote:
I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed. As a suggestion, never bind hatches individually. I made mention in my previous post about doing what is comfortable, but it can't be inefficient. This is. All the hatches should be bound together and queens bound individually. I strongly suggest at least making this change. It's not too much different from what you have done, and it is far more efficient. The general consensus is that you do this, or the "backspace method" (such a weird name for it since most people re-bind the key to something other than backspace). Works fine for me, it really helps my larva injects actually as I often double press the hatch hotkey which means i spend a lot of time looking at the hatchery get a pretty consistant 85%+ inject uptime. It also lets me ensure I have under 3 larva at all bases where possible. Works fine for me as well. I generally don't mind changing my habits, but I've decided this method is good for me too. One hatch per hotkey from 4 to 8 (I don't hotkey the sixth and following hatches), cycling through them and choosing where to morph eggs from. The shortcuts are set default, I haven't changed any of them. Problem with this is that you limit your hotkeys massively. If you waste 4-8 on hatcheries, where do you put your queens, your bulk army, your infestors, your banelings, your mutas, your broodlords, your group of drop-defense etc. The problem is mainly that people aren't using enough hotkeys, so they waste them on individually selecting queens/hatches... while if you move to a good setup where every hotkey is within immediate reach, you can easily control group every unit individually and get massively better control.
You can control everything fine with 3 hotkeys. Id be fine with 2 tbh. The backspace method is the only way to free up any keys but has the drawback of being so spammy and buggy. I don't need to hotkey queens. Base cameras are inferior to individual bindings for two reasons.
Firstly a large part of my macro is monitoring the larva status bar on the hatchery unit card, by tapping through my hatcheries while still mostly focusing on micro. With camera bindings you cannot see larva progress without leaving the battle. Secondly is larva management. People who use mass hatchery bindings often have 0 larva at one hatchery but over 3 at another. This stops the passive larva production from the hatchery leaving you with less larva. By using individual bindings I can always try to keep my larva below 3 at all hatcheries, giving me more production.
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1) Lings/Roaches/Hydras
2) Banelings/Infestors
3) Mutas/Corrupters
4) Broodlords
5) Hatcheries
6) Queen #1
7) Queen #2
8) Queen #3
9) Nydus
Pros:- Individual queen management; can't lose control via backspace method
- Hatcheries all on one for easier larva management
Cons:- Slower larva injection
- Hatcheries on one hotkey means rallies in one spot (could pose a problem if the enemy is in the way of the rally
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1 & 2 & 3 for Units
4 All Hatcheries
5 All Queens
I use Backspace Inject with Space Button for switching Hatcheries.
My Hotkeys are strongly influenced by the grid system with some changes like attack= a and some other.
I don't think it's necessary to use keys that are far away and can not be reached without moving your arm. 5 Control groups are pretty ok for controlling everything relatively well.
Saying this as a random master player who occasionally beats grand master players.
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hello zergs,
I do use the camera inject mode from Darkgrid. The good think about it that u can have all queens on one hotkey while also having control over them. So they dont walk from one hatch to annother hatch that was what I did hate so much about the backspace method.
I must also admit that learning darkgrid is not very easy. But I think having more controls about the queens + having them all in one hotkey for fast inject is an absolute good method for Z.
Btw im sorry for my english I try to improve it 
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On February 01 2012 09:36 dabosaur wrote:
I have seen sheth bind all his hatcherys inividually and then when he injects he doubleclick and boxes the queen, inject. Anyone know the reason why he doesnt bind the queen instead or queen+hatch?
Well, I can't say it's his reason, but if you bind both the Queen and the Hatchery, then he would have to tab to make units from that Hatchery, as the Queen (unit) takes priority over the Hatchery (Building).
I'm thinking the logic behind leaving Queens unbound has to do with the fact that you have to click the hatch for the injection anyways, so adding a 'box' or 'click' before the click isn't too much of a hassle for these high APM players. Also, binding the queen instead of the Hatchery eliminations the ability to 1) make units specifically from that Hatchery, and 2) activate the control group remotely to check the spawn larva timer.
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I read the posts and spent 2 hours configuring my hotkeys. Now I am happy.  Thanks TL!
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1-3 army, 4 queens, 5 hatches, use the backspace method, though rebound to `.
Remapped patrol to Q and build queen to X
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On February 02 2012 01:47 Iksf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:12 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 20:56 Stimpk wrote:On February 01 2012 20:41 Iksf wrote:On February 01 2012 09:12 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 01 2012 09:03 Iksf wrote:
I just bind hatches individually from 4 onwards and use 1-3 for various units. Otherwise exactly the same as normal, I have burrow as Q, think thats the only thing i changed. As a suggestion, never bind hatches individually. I made mention in my previous post about doing what is comfortable, but it can't be inefficient. This is. All the hatches should be bound together and queens bound individually. I strongly suggest at least making this change. It's not too much different from what you have done, and it is far more efficient. The general consensus is that you do this, or the "backspace method" (such a weird name for it since most people re-bind the key to something other than backspace). Works fine for me, it really helps my larva injects actually as I often double press the hatch hotkey which means i spend a lot of time looking at the hatchery get a pretty consistant 85%+ inject uptime. It also lets me ensure I have under 3 larva at all bases where possible. Works fine for me as well. I generally don't mind changing my habits, but I've decided this method is good for me too. One hatch per hotkey from 4 to 8 (I don't hotkey the sixth and following hatches), cycling through them and choosing where to morph eggs from. The shortcuts are set default, I haven't changed any of them. Problem with this is that you limit your hotkeys massively. If you waste 4-8 on hatcheries, where do you put your queens, your bulk army, your infestors, your banelings, your mutas, your broodlords, your group of drop-defense etc. The problem is mainly that people aren't using enough hotkeys, so they waste them on individually selecting queens/hatches... while if you move to a good setup where every hotkey is within immediate reach, you can easily control group every unit individually and get massively better control. You can control everything fine with 3 hotkeys. Id be fine with 2 tbh. The backspace method is the only way to free up any keys but has the drawback of being so spammy and buggy. I don't need to hotkey queens. Base cameras are inferior to individual bindings for two reasons. Firstly a large part of my macro is monitoring the larva status bar on the hatchery unit card, by tapping through my hatcheries while still mostly focusing on micro. With camera bindings you cannot see larva progress without leaving the battle. Secondly is larva management. People who use mass hatchery bindings often have 0 larva at one hatchery but over 3 at another. This stops the passive larva production from the hatchery leaving you with less larva. By using individual bindings I can always try to keep my larva below 3 at all hatcheries, giving me more production.
You might feel you do fine with 2 or 3 hotkeys, but trust me, there's a ton to be gained from using more. It's pretty sweet to have lings on one key, banes on another and mutas on a third when engaging a terran army... and if he drops you at the same time, no problem, you have a small group of lings on their own hotkey ready to send there. While doing so, you can easily jump to a queen you have on its own hotkey to drop a tumor or two. The more hotkeys you use, the faster you get mechanically.
Backspace inject is indeed spammy and buggy. Darkgrid base cams aren't, while being more or less just as fast.
While you have to leave battle to check your larva progress, it's not like this is an issue. You perfect injections by getting a feel for when they are about to pop, you shouldn't have to check on them constantly, and with basecams, you'll definitely check your bases more than enough to keep your timing. As for having 3 larva at some hatcheries, sure, it does happen. I would say that as your macro gets better, this becomes way less of an issue since you generally shouldn't even have 3 larva lying around unless you're saving up for something. While it can happen, I would much rather use base cams to build from idividual hatcheries in that case than to always have to jump between hatches individually when I need to build tons of stuff.
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You can control everything fine with 3 hotkeys. Id be fine with 2 tbh. The backspace method is the only way to free up any keys but has the drawback of being so spammy and buggy. I don't need to hotkey queens. Base cameras are inferior to individual bindings for two reasons.
I can't imagine anyone at the higher level of play, can play with using only 3 hotkeys. I don't think any of the masters+ players play with using any less than 2 hotkeys for their army, if not 3. I am astounded that you don't put queens on hotkeys, not to mention upgrade facilties and evo chambers. How do you check progress on an upgrade, for when to best attack? ZvZ is 100% about knowing when your +1 missile finishes, or when speed finishes, or when +2 finishes, or when muta carapace finishes. What about infestors, how do you know when to spawn them without checking to see if infestation pit is at 31/80 or not?
Or do you always waste time looking back at the base? Do you just make infestors 'whenever' and just wing it by starting the infestors at maybe 50/80 because you couldn't hotkey your infestation pit so you could start the infestors at a crisp 31/80. How in the world do you play? Do you play so liberally that such timings don't matter? Do you just make an infestation pit super early in the game, despite not using it at all?
I mean when I play, and I think most people, they get the infestation pit because they plan to field infestors 131 seconds, or just 2 minutes 11 seconds, from when they start it. Do you just make like, the infestation pit 3 minutes before you need infestors, because you don't check the times on things?
I don't get it.
And then like, your injects. How can you possibly inject without queens on a hotkey? Don't tell me that by 3 hotkeys in total, you keep your whole army on one hotkey.
Because that's insane. So when fighting toss or zerg, you just a-move roach/hydra and let your hydras get hit by the enemy? Do you not move command and 'hug' the opponents army with your roaches and just get completely owned by stalkers every time? Do you let banelings detonate on siege tanks and thors and marauders? How do you control your mutas? Are you one of those zergs who a-move with mass roach/infestor and let their infestors wander right into the opponent's army?
><
Backspace inject is indeed spammy and buggy. Darkgrid base cams aren't, while being more or less just as fast.
The whole 'problem' with the backspace inject method is solved 100% if you just hit "Hold/Stop" after injecting with all the queens so they don't run to hatches with no queen at it. Personally, I always make a queen at every hatch, and can't imagine playing any other way, so I never have buggy issues, but if I don't have a queen, I just hit 4-stop to prevent 'buggy'. It's a shitton easier to backspace inject then hit 4-Stop, then it is to do any other inject method which is much, much slower.
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some good feedback in here!
some on page 1 suggested i rebind all my tech to the same hotgroup as my queens.... why on earth would anyone do that? i have 7 accessible hotgroups on the keyboard, and 3 more on my mouse. its not like i need to free up an additional hotgroup, and if i did "4" is barely used and would serve the purpose just fine. also adding my tech to my queen grouping would require an extra "tab" every time i wanted to access my tech. seems a bit silly to me!
one glaring hole in my game is that i dont utilize infestors enough, so another thing id be interested in hearing from players, is how they key their army, and more specifically, where the infestors fall into the mix.
do you hotkey your infestors seperately? and if so, do you also key them to your main group? do you split your infestors into several groups typically?
nothing is more annoying than having your festors mixed in with your main army and watching them roll into battle tanking for your roaches! doesnt happen often but when it does... yuck.
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On February 02 2012 05:54 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +You can control everything fine with 3 hotkeys. Id be fine with 2 tbh. The backspace method is the only way to free up any keys but has the drawback of being so spammy and buggy. I don't need to hotkey queens. Base cameras are inferior to individual bindings for two reasons. I can't imagine anyone at the higher level of play, can play with using only 3 hotkeys. I don't think any of the masters+ players play with using any less than 2 hotkeys for their army, if not 3. I am astounded that you don't put queens on hotkeys, not to mention upgrade facilties and evo chambers. How do you check progress on an upgrade, for when to best attack? ZvZ is 100% about knowing when your +1 missile finishes, or when speed finishes, or when +2 finishes, or when muta carapace finishes. What about infestors, how do you know when to spawn them without checking to see if infestation pit is at 31/80 or not? Or do you always waste time looking back at the base? Do you just make infestors 'whenever' and just wing it by starting the infestors at maybe 50/80 because you couldn't hotkey your infestation pit so you could start the infestors at a crisp 31/80. How in the world do you play? Do you play so liberally that such timings don't matter? Do you just make an infestation pit super early in the game, despite not using it at all? I mean when I play, and I think most people, they get the infestation pit because they plan to field infestors 131 seconds, or just 2 minutes 11 seconds, from when they start it. Do you just make like, the infestation pit 3 minutes before you need infestors, because you don't check the times on things? I don't get it. And then like, your injects. How can you possibly inject without queens on a hotkey? Don't tell me that by 3 hotkeys in total, you keep your whole army on one hotkey. Because that's insane. So when fighting toss or zerg, you just a-move roach/hydra and let your hydras get hit by the enemy? Do you not move command and 'hug' the opponents army with your roaches and just get completely owned by stalkers every time? Do you let banelings detonate on siege tanks and thors and marauders? How do you control your mutas? Are you one of those zergs who a-move with mass roach/infestor and let their infestors wander right into the opponent's army? >< Show nested quote +Backspace inject is indeed spammy and buggy. Darkgrid base cams aren't, while being more or less just as fast. The whole 'problem' with the backspace inject method is solved 100% if you just hit "Hold/Stop" after injecting with all the queens so they don't run to hatches with no queen at it. Personally, I always make a queen at every hatch, and can't imagine playing any other way, so I never have buggy issues, but if I don't have a queen, I just hit 4-stop to prevent 'buggy'. It's a shitton easier to backspace inject then hit 4-Stop, then it is to do any other inject method which is much, much slower.
You'll actually be hard pressed to find any pro zergs who use more than 3 control groups for units, I think ret does, thats the only one I can think of atm though. NesTea Losira CoCa etc all use 2, tonnes of people from DRG and Leenock to Idra use 3.
I bind my upgrades to 9 generally, I didn't mention that because I eventually use that for a hatchery.
If you watch the IM stream I think you will appreciate why individual bindings work so well if you have the APM for it. There are plenty of NesTea vods.
The backspace method is horrible for trying to manage unsynced hatcheries. You can watch some players like Vibe sometimes trying to force backspace to work on unsynced hatcheries and its unbelievably spammy.
For the other stuff, no I just use a mouse like most other people, I don't need a different hotkey for every type of unit i have its pointless.
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using grid
1-3 hatches
4 all hatches
5, 6, 7, 8 first 4 individual hatches
z = 9
h = 0 -> h in the beginning for creep queen, later z and h can be used for army to have 5 control grps and use 9 and 0.
i recently read about base cams in a terran thread and i have to say this is really a big deal for me now.
F1 - F4 i use for the first 4 bases and F5 for my main rally point.
i feel the base cams really save a lot of clicking on the minimap. For example i want to ex F1 click a drone F2 click to the expansion, do some shit with your drone, click F2 and you re at the expo. i still takes time, especially in the later stages of the game, to totally adjust, but i feel this can be used for so much, really advise it.
space is alternative "x" ( which is inject, fungal in grid ) to be able to inject when i jump through hatches with 5-8.
I read someone is using alt combinations, so maybe will change alt + qwert to hatches.
Question i have: i wanted to train removing my hand ( ring finger normally hits q ) and putting the ring on 5 and then jumping through hatches. I see a lot of pros jumping on the keyboard quite the distance... and it could serve well as cycling through the bases to see what needs to be injected similar as terrans do with their buildings. do you feel it s to much and not so useful as a zerg? cause u can wait till all hatches sync up on injects and u can just check with main hatch key?
edit: can some ppl stop being so nazi about their setup?
recently downloaded some nerchio replays and he played in most of them with 1 key for all hatches and 1 or 2 for his army...
end...
in the end the human body/brain adjusts to nearly everything and the layout of your keyboard is just secondary and very individual. Just think about moments during the game, where u want to do something but u can't, because you re really hindered by the mechanic...then change it. there is no "best" way, or noob way. Look at gsl, for a year, and even now top players playing with minimal keys.
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Here's my setup:
1-3: units (1: meat - Roach, Hydra, BL's, Ultras, etc... 2: Second group, or spellcasters... 3: Mobility via Lings or Mutas)
4: All Hatches
5: Main (and macro hatch in main, if applicable)
6: Natural (and macro hatch in nat, if applicable)
7: Third (ditto)
8: Fourth (ditto)
Caps Lock (Rebind of 9): Queens
~ (Rebind of 0): Overseer, or Overlords for drops, or in early game, important building (Pool during Speed upgrade, Evo chambers during upgrades, etc)
I use Caps Lock with the spacebar inject method although I've gotten away from keeping on top of it with that method lately.
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Something that haven't been mentioned is to bind creep tumor to a specific hotkey. For me, it's 'c'. So, for instance, the second I put a creep tumor, I select it bind it to C while it's building. Then, later on, I press CC to select the view on it, and put another one which I then hotkey to C. Later on in the game, you can have 4-5 creep tumors and just CC click click click click click and rebind the new ones to CC. I also like to bind my anti-air to ~.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On February 02 2012 05:54 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +You can control everything fine with 3 hotkeys. Id be fine with 2 tbh. The backspace method is the only way to free up any keys but has the drawback of being so spammy and buggy. I don't need to hotkey queens. Base cameras are inferior to individual bindings for two reasons. I can't imagine anyone at the higher level of play, can play with using only 3 hotkeys. I don't think any of the masters+ players play with using any less than 2 hotkeys for their army, if not 3. I am astounded that you don't put queens on hotkeys, not to mention upgrade facilties and evo chambers. How do you check progress on an upgrade, for when to best attack? ZvZ is 100% about knowing when your +1 missile finishes, or when speed finishes, or when +2 finishes, or when muta carapace finishes. What about infestors, how do you know when to spawn them without checking to see if infestation pit is at 31/80 or not? Or do you always waste time looking back at the base? Do you just make infestors 'whenever' and just wing it by starting the infestors at maybe 50/80 because you couldn't hotkey your infestation pit so you could start the infestors at a crisp 31/80. How in the world do you play? Do you play so liberally that such timings don't matter? Do you just make an infestation pit super early in the game, despite not using it at all? I mean when I play, and I think most people, they get the infestation pit because they plan to field infestors 131 seconds, or just 2 minutes 11 seconds, from when they start it. Do you just make like, the infestation pit 3 minutes before you need infestors, because you don't check the times on things? I don't get it. And then like, your injects. How can you possibly inject without queens on a hotkey? Don't tell me that by 3 hotkeys in total, you keep your whole army on one hotkey. Because that's insane. So when fighting toss or zerg, you just a-move roach/hydra and let your hydras get hit by the enemy? Do you not move command and 'hug' the opponents army with your roaches and just get completely owned by stalkers every time? Do you let banelings detonate on siege tanks and thors and marauders? How do you control your mutas? Are you one of those zergs who a-move with mass roach/infestor and let their infestors wander right into the opponent's army? >< Show nested quote +Backspace inject is indeed spammy and buggy. Darkgrid base cams aren't, while being more or less just as fast. The whole 'problem' with the backspace inject method is solved 100% if you just hit "Hold/Stop" after injecting with all the queens so they don't run to hatches with no queen at it. Personally, I always make a queen at every hatch, and can't imagine playing any other way, so I never have buggy issues, but if I don't have a queen, I just hit 4-stop to prevent 'buggy'. It's a shitton easier to backspace inject then hit 4-Stop, then it is to do any other inject method which is much, much slower.
Can you please stop trying to act like you know what you or talking about, because you don't and nor you a good player. I am sick and tired of seeing your nonsensical posts in threads after threads. You have single handedly ruined tl.net for me.
You know who uses only 4hotkeys as zerg ?? Stephano
You know who uses 2hotkeys for units for throughout most of the game?? MVP & Stephano
Nearly no one at the top level(Zergs) bind their tech buildings.
Your lenghty post appear to be intelligible on the surface but they are useless and filled with you shoving down your sudo pretentious knowledge onto others.
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I don't recommend mine, but I just thought I'd mention it for laughs. I don't have any altered hotkeys.
1 - Main Hatch
2 - Natural Hatch
3 - Main Army Hotkey
4 - Spellcaster/Secondary Army Hotkey
5 - 3rd Hatch
6 - 4th Hatch
7 - 5th Hatch
8 - 6th Hatch
9 - Evo Chambers
0 - Scouting Overlord
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My setup:
` - Creep queen (rebound 0)
1 - All hatches
2 - Initial scout, then main army
3 - Secondary army
4 - overseer (situational)
5 - 7 - individual hatch queens
Something that has helped me a lot is rebinding anything that morphs an existing unit/structure to 'E'. This means lair, hive, greater spire, bane, and broods are all rebound to that key. All other upgrades are grid. Just one less thing to think about when I select something with the purpose of morphing it.
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The only important part to take from this thread is to take one setup and adhere to it religiously. Even if it's a shit hotkey settup efficiency wise, you're always better off always know where everything is. One of my friends is a high master on the korean server, he uses 1 for CC's, 2 for Rax every other tech structure he has on 3, then controls his army ith 0987. drops on 4, 5 and 6. This is horribly inefficient (Marines on 0 ans he has to keep his hand on S T 0 and 9A for his tanks, wtf) and I make fun of him all the time for it, but it works for him, so that's what he uses.
As for what I use, as a zerg I like...
1) Lings -The rest of my main army after I go BL/Infestor
2) Banes/Roaches (depending on the matchup); Corrupters lategame
3) Support units; Mutas if I'm going for muta or either hydras, ultras, or whatever I'm using as a "power unit" in the game -BL lategame
4) Infestors -Early game I use 4 to check for important tech/ups; spawning pool for ling speed, bane nest in zvz after ling speed,
5) All Hatches
6) Main Hatch for lair/Hive upgrade and to glance for the spawn larvae timer
7) Queens
8) Nydus
9) Harass/drops/important burrowed ling/bane
0) Harass/drops/Important burrowed ling/bane
I always keep my evos by a hatch so I see the timers while I'm cycling spawn larvae. I've remapped W to cycle for queen macro.
F2 is my main
F3 is my newest base that I need to jump to to rally drones, but drones in gas, etc
F4 is my army rally
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My setup (pretty sure I've posted on a thread like this before)
1 - Main Army
2 - Mutas / Infestors / anything that needs to be microed
3 - Evo chambers / Spires
4 - Main hatch
5 - Natural hatch
6 - Third hatch
7 - Queens
0 - All hatcheries (Bounded to ~)
All upgrades and castable abilities bound to Z, X and C
All building morphs bound to Z
-edit-
Oh yes, and I use the base cam cycle method to inject larvae once I have more than 3 hatcheries. If not, I use BW style.
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how do you do injects faster?? i got all my queens on 4 and my lairs etc. on 5. i always have to do one indivdually to inject larvae. And how do you it without having to turn away from a battle taking place. diamond player here can someone do a step by step for me please i would much appreciate it :D
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On February 02 2012 07:36 bagina wrote:
some good feedback in here!
some on page 1 suggested i rebind all my tech to the same hotgroup as my queens.... why on earth would anyone do that? i have 7 accessible hotgroups on the keyboard, and 3 more on my mouse. its not like i need to free up an additional hotgroup, and if i did "4" is barely used and would serve the purpose just fine. also adding my tech to my queen grouping would require an extra "tab" every time i wanted to access my tech. seems a bit silly to me!
That was me, and it not silly in the slightest.
Hotkeying all your tech buildings I think we can all agree is a good thing, as this allows you to upgrade, and check upgrade progress, easily from anywhere on the map. However, if you have multiple evo chambers or multiple spires you cannot check upgrade progress by tabbing alone; you must instead click on the building you are interested in. So if we are resigned to clicking the building of interest already in many cases, and as mixing buildings with our queens does not impede our queen functionality at all, why not throw the upgrade buildings into our convenient queen hotkey group? It's not so much trying to save a hotkey, as "why not use the most convenient hotkey?".
As far as the people talking about "not needing many hotkeys for army"... I know that some pros use barely any hotkeys, but as someone who uses many, I cannot believe that can possibly be optimal. Pros may be successful, but that does not mean everything they are doing is flawless and perfect. Personally I in a game it would be common for me to have army mixed across three or four hotkeys, and in some games five+.
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I personally use my mousebuttons for my armycontroll and people used to laugh at me ^_^;; what I am saying is it is actually not really important what you use as long as you are capable of dealing with them properly. The only thing that's realy important is not to use the backspace methode if you want to inject. I play with it and I am very upset about the methode. I feel like if you want to change something in your hotkey settings, either put every queen on a different hotkey or every hatchery. I feel like the effort you get out of that change is huge.
In the latergame stages the backspace methode just screws you over ^__^;; but regarding your hotkeys you use for spells is actually quite irrelevant!
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On February 02 2012 11:32 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 05:54 Belial88 wrote:You can control everything fine with 3 hotkeys. Id be fine with 2 tbh. The backspace method is the only way to free up any keys but has the drawback of being so spammy and buggy. I don't need to hotkey queens. Base cameras are inferior to individual bindings for two reasons. I can't imagine anyone at the higher level of play, can play with using only 3 hotkeys. I don't think any of the masters+ players play with using any less than 2 hotkeys for their army, if not 3. I am astounded that you don't put queens on hotkeys, not to mention upgrade facilties and evo chambers. How do you check progress on an upgrade, for when to best attack? ZvZ is 100% about knowing when your +1 missile finishes, or when speed finishes, or when +2 finishes, or when muta carapace finishes. What about infestors, how do you know when to spawn them without checking to see if infestation pit is at 31/80 or not? Or do you always waste time looking back at the base? Do you just make infestors 'whenever' and just wing it by starting the infestors at maybe 50/80 because you couldn't hotkey your infestation pit so you could start the infestors at a crisp 31/80. How in the world do you play? Do you play so liberally that such timings don't matter? Do you just make an infestation pit super early in the game, despite not using it at all? I mean when I play, and I think most people, they get the infestation pit because they plan to field infestors 131 seconds, or just 2 minutes 11 seconds, from when they start it. Do you just make like, the infestation pit 3 minutes before you need infestors, because you don't check the times on things? I don't get it. And then like, your injects. How can you possibly inject without queens on a hotkey? Don't tell me that by 3 hotkeys in total, you keep your whole army on one hotkey. Because that's insane. So when fighting toss or zerg, you just a-move roach/hydra and let your hydras get hit by the enemy? Do you not move command and 'hug' the opponents army with your roaches and just get completely owned by stalkers every time? Do you let banelings detonate on siege tanks and thors and marauders? How do you control your mutas? Are you one of those zergs who a-move with mass roach/infestor and let their infestors wander right into the opponent's army? >< Backspace inject is indeed spammy and buggy. Darkgrid base cams aren't, while being more or less just as fast. The whole 'problem' with the backspace inject method is solved 100% if you just hit "Hold/Stop" after injecting with all the queens so they don't run to hatches with no queen at it. Personally, I always make a queen at every hatch, and can't imagine playing any other way, so I never have buggy issues, but if I don't have a queen, I just hit 4-stop to prevent 'buggy'. It's a shitton easier to backspace inject then hit 4-Stop, then it is to do any other inject method which is much, much slower. Can you please stop trying to act like you know what you or talking about, because you don't and nor you a good player. I am sick and tired of seeing your nonsensical posts in threads after threads. You have single handedly ruined tl.net for me. You know who uses only 4hotkeys as zerg ?? Stephano You know who uses 2hotkeys for units for throughout most of the game?? MVP & Stephano Nearly no one at the top level(Zergs) bind their tech buildings. Your lenghty post appear to be intelligible on the surface but they are useless and filled with you shoving down your sudo pretentious knowledge onto others.
I cannot agree with you more. Almost all Korean Zergs don't bind their queens. They just box and v click. Stephano and Sen are the foreigner examples. as long as you remember to inject it you will be fine. and thats what macro hatches are for as well.
For army control, I saw forgg almost did not use hotkeys for army at all. His hotkeys are almost purely for macro.
But belial is cool tho, don't attack others.
The only zerg pro that I saw who binds everything into hotkeys is ViBE, and his APM is insane. His play makes me want to use hotkeys a lot more.
Now my 2 cents:
~ - control group 0 - corruptors / late game mutas / flank
1 - main ground (ling/roach/hydra)
2 - roach early game / infestor late game
3 - mutas / BLs
4 - all queens
5 - all hatches
6 - I am trying to bind all my tech buildings there, but almost always forgot
F2 - control group 7 - scout / creep queens
F3 - control group 8 - 1st overlord scout
F4 - control group 9 - trying to bind evo chambers and spires on for upgrade.
I bind my backspace to a side button of my mouse.
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On February 02 2012 05:54 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Backspace inject is indeed spammy and buggy. Darkgrid base cams aren't, while being more or less just as fast. The whole 'problem' with the backspace inject method is solved 100% if you just hit "Hold/Stop" after injecting with all the queens so they don't run to hatches with no queen at it. Personally, I always make a queen at every hatch, and can't imagine playing any other way, so I never have buggy issues, but if I don't have a queen, I just hit 4-stop to prevent 'buggy'. It's a shitton easier to backspace inject then hit 4-Stop, then it is to do any other inject method which is much, much slower.
Making one queen at every hatch hurts your army supply loads without much benefit compared to getting more bases.
Pressing stop helps, but I don't like it. If one of your queens is a bit away from a hatch (maybe it was harassed etc), it might not even reach the hatch before you press stop, and you're not going to know. The thing is that using base cams, if you have a proper setup, is just as fast, with 0 of the issues, you can even on-the-go decide to not inject one of your bases if you want to put down a tumor etc.
I definitely recommend backspace inject->stop to anyone who isn't interested in changing their hotkeys, but it's a bit sad that the vast majority of players don't know how it works in Darkgrid so they just assume that backspace inject, with flaws or not, is the optimal way to inject.
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Wow, some people here have fucking wierd hotkey setups (binding things to your mouse, qwerty etc) o_o...
Anyway, when I play zerg I just use classic and 5-0 hatches, and then my active tech building on 4. 1-3 army. Oh and lol at the guy who got on the rant about army hotkeys when like every good zerg is using 2-3 army hotkeys. If people can use 3 hotkeys for units in BW they sure as hell can do it in Sc2 aswell, which every good zerg in korea have proven already.
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I find it ridiculous overall that people seriously defend using few hotkeys over many, what can possibly be your arguments? That pros do? Pros use standard (with a few modifications), a keyboard setup where the NAMES of commands are more important than effectivity of placement. It's without a doubt shit when it comes to efficiency. They only use it because that's what they are used to, it's what they've played with from day one and with the amount of hours they invest, it's not like they are going to risk a slump over fixing something which works for them. Doesn't mean it's in any way optimal or efficient.
Less control can never be more effective than more control.
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On February 02 2012 18:00 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 05:54 Belial88 wrote:Backspace inject is indeed spammy and buggy. Darkgrid base cams aren't, while being more or less just as fast. The whole 'problem' with the backspace inject method is solved 100% if you just hit "Hold/Stop" after injecting with all the queens so they don't run to hatches with no queen at it. Personally, I always make a queen at every hatch, and can't imagine playing any other way, so I never have buggy issues, but if I don't have a queen, I just hit 4-stop to prevent 'buggy'. It's a shitton easier to backspace inject then hit 4-Stop, then it is to do any other inject method which is much, much slower. Making one queen at every hatch hurts your army supply loads without much benefit compared to getting more bases. Pressing stop helps, but I don't like it. If one of your queens is a bit away from a hatch (maybe it was harassed etc), it might not even reach the hatch before you press stop, and you're not going to know. The thing is that using base cams, if you have a proper setup, is just as fast, with 0 of the issues, you can even on-the-go decide to not inject one of your bases if you want to put down a tumor etc. I definitely recommend backspace inject->stop to anyone who isn't interested in changing their hotkeys, but it's a bit sad that the vast majority of players don't know how it works in Darkgrid so they just assume that backspace inject, with flaws or not, is the optimal way to inject.
Yeah the Darkgrid method is great; I don't use Darkgrid (I use my own custom setup) but my injection method is very similar (also my creep spreading method is also similar to my injection keys)
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I put my queens on 5, my hatchs on 4. The "return to base" is on a button on the mouse right under my thumb.
When I want to inject, I just push "5", then I hold "V" (injection, no need to push and hold Shift), then I go : "LEFT CLICK, THUMB CLICK, LEFT CLICK, THUMB CLICK, etc..." like a madman.
Edit : By the way : Stephano, who is known to be a..."good" zerg at the very least, has only 2 control groups when playing a "ROACHS INFESTORS CORRUPTERS BROODLORS" style.
1. Roachs Infestors Corrupters (when selecting the whole group, you can still cast fungals cause infestors are casters)
2. Broodlords
3. Queens
4. Hatchs
Nothing on 5,6,7,8,9,0.
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I have on my hotkeys as zerg:
1 - main army
2 - infestors/banelings - but priority on infestors if I have both in an army
3 - Broodlords/creep-spreading queens/scouting drone
4 - all my hatcheries
5 - queen
6 - queen
7 - queen
8 - queen
9 - nothing
0 - nothing
After the 8th queen I put them all on one hotkey and use the backspace trick which is really good when you have a very large amount of hatcheries.
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On February 02 2012 18:48 Lasbike wrote:Edit : By the way : Stephano, who is known to be a..."good" zerg at the very least, has only 2 control groups when playing a "ROACHS INFESTORS CORRUPTERS BROODLORS" style.
1. Roachs Infestors Corrupters (when selecting the whole group, you can still cast fungals cause infestors are casters)
2. Broodlords
3. Queens
4. Hatchs
Nothing on 5,6,7,8,9,0.
Not a very effective setup to say the least, it's a perfect situation to have your corrupters and infestors run into your opponents army and die horribly. Obviously Stephano has more than enough APM to keep this from happening by using his mouse, but no reason to use a less optimal system when you can just as easily have them all in their own groups.
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Here is my setup
§ - Queens
1 - Hatcheries
2 - Army
3- Army
4 - Army (Spellcasters)
5 - Overlords / Burrow banes / ect
F1 - F5 Camera Saves.
Shift V Cicle through Hatches for injects.
Alt Q - Idle workers
This works for me, however i have been trying to have my hatches on 4 and army on 1-2-3 but i just cant get used to it.
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I wasn't saying that every pro player puts their army on 3 hotkeys, but most put their army on at least 2 hotkeys. Actually I think most pros use 2 or more, ie roach/infestor/muta, or something to that effect.
What that person had posted, was saying he used 3 total other hotkeys, as in 3 hotkeys to include his army, queens, tech structures, scouting units, infestors, mutas, and hatcheries, and that's what I had a hard time understanding.
If I'm the one who misunderstood, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying.
I'm not saying you need to use lots of hotkeys (well you do), but I was thoroughly surprised this guy said he used 3 hotkeys only. Three hotkeys, and obviously 2 of the hotkeys are queens and hatcheries (at minimum). So that means his mutas, his infestors, his bl/infestor army, his ling/bane, his roach/hydra, he just balls them all together. Does that sound right to you at all? I seriously doubt anyone even in master+ uses only 3 hotkeys ever, as in never puts his scouts on a different hotkey, his army, et cetera. His mutas, his infestors, Saying you only use 3 hotkeys in total, or only 1 hotkey for army, just sounded ridiculous. That was what I was talking about.
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i use
1 main army
2 second army (baneling for example)
3 Muta/infestor
4 All queen
5 all hatch
6-7-8 single queen
For the inject i usse 66v-77v in the first phase of the game or simply switch between hatches and manually inject selecting queen. In late game if i know i have the same number of queen and hatch i use backspace method but more than 1 time my queens go around the map and its not funny at all. i m searching for some other method..dunno..
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On February 02 2012 20:55 Belial88 wrote:
I wasn't saying that every pro player puts their army on 3 hotkeys, but most put their army on at least 2 hotkeys. Actually I think most pros use 2 or more, ie roach/infestor/muta, or something to that effect.
What that person had posted, was saying he used 3 total other hotkeys, as in 3 hotkeys to include his army, queens, tech structures, scouting units, infestors, mutas, and hatcheries, and that's what I had a hard time understanding.
If I'm the one who misunderstood, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying.
I'm not saying you need to use lots of hotkeys (well you do), but I was thoroughly surprised this guy said he used 3 hotkeys only. Three hotkeys, and obviously 2 of the hotkeys are queens and hatcheries (at minimum). So that means his mutas, his infestors, his bl/infestor army, his ling/bane, his roach/hydra, he just balls them all together. Does that sound right to you at all? I seriously doubt anyone even in master+ uses only 3 hotkeys ever, as in never puts his scouts on a different hotkey, his army, et cetera. His mutas, his infestors, Saying you only use 3 hotkeys in total, or only 1 hotkey for army, just sounded ridiculous. That was what I was talking about.
Not in the defense of this player, but you don't need to ball stuff just because you keep units on 1 hotkey. You can split units with your mouse as well. Lots of players have very good mouse control and minimap precision. I've seen Dimaga play on stream without setting hotkeys for queen or hatch, though only up to 2 base, he would manually click the queen and click the hatchery. Evidently not the fastest possible method, but serves to prove the irrelevancy of "feeling fast", that game was won because of superior decision making and baneling timing.
Though I myself have crap mouse precision and tend to use hotkeys often.
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I believe Stephano uses
1) army
2) army
3) all hatches
4) all queens
It's so simple yet effective. I enjoy watching him play with just 4 hotkeys!
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On February 03 2012 00:04 sapht wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:55 Belial88 wrote:
I wasn't saying that every pro player puts their army on 3 hotkeys, but most put their army on at least 2 hotkeys. Actually I think most pros use 2 or more, ie roach/infestor/muta, or something to that effect.
What that person had posted, was saying he used 3 total other hotkeys, as in 3 hotkeys to include his army, queens, tech structures, scouting units, infestors, mutas, and hatcheries, and that's what I had a hard time understanding.
If I'm the one who misunderstood, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying.
I'm not saying you need to use lots of hotkeys (well you do), but I was thoroughly surprised this guy said he used 3 hotkeys only. Three hotkeys, and obviously 2 of the hotkeys are queens and hatcheries (at minimum). So that means his mutas, his infestors, his bl/infestor army, his ling/bane, his roach/hydra, he just balls them all together. Does that sound right to you at all? I seriously doubt anyone even in master+ uses only 3 hotkeys ever, as in never puts his scouts on a different hotkey, his army, et cetera. His mutas, his infestors, Saying you only use 3 hotkeys in total, or only 1 hotkey for army, just sounded ridiculous. That was what I was talking about. Not in the defense of this player, but you don't need to ball stuff just because you keep units on 1 hotkey. You can split units with your mouse as well. Lots of players have very good mouse control and minimap precision. I've seen Dimaga play on stream without setting hotkeys for queen or hatch, though only up to 2 base, he would manually click the queen and click the hatchery. Evidently not the fastest possible method, but serves to prove the irrelevancy of "feeling fast", that game was won because of superior decision making and baneling timing. Though I myself have crap mouse precision and tend to use hotkeys often.
No matter how fast you are with your mouse, it's downright impossible to get even close to keyboard speed. Obviously, this won't win or lose you games, then again, so won't worker splitting, yet everyone does that. I don't see why you would want to gimp yourself just because a pro does, hotkeys are always way faster than using the mouse.
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I use the backspace inject method rebound to spacebar. I've thought about changing it so each individual queen is on a hotkey like: a = 5 on keyboard, s = 6, d = 7.
My hotkey setup is as follows:
1 = Army 1
2 = Army 2
3 = Army 3
4 = Hatcheries
5 = Queens
6 = evo chambers
I really don't like using 7+ because its just too hard to reach for me.
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On February 02 2012 20:55 Belial88 wrote:
I wasn't saying that every pro player puts their army on 3 hotkeys, but most put their army on at least 2 hotkeys. Actually I think most pros use 2 or more, ie roach/infestor/muta, or something to that effect.
What that person had posted, was saying he used 3 total other hotkeys, as in 3 hotkeys to include his army, queens, tech structures, scouting units, infestors, mutas, and hatcheries, and that's what I had a hard time understanding.
If I'm the one who misunderstood, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying.
I'm not saying you need to use lots of hotkeys (well you do), but I was thoroughly surprised this guy said he used 3 hotkeys only. Three hotkeys, and obviously 2 of the hotkeys are queens and hatcheries (at minimum). So that means his mutas, his infestors, his bl/infestor army, his ling/bane, his roach/hydra, he just balls them all together. Does that sound right to you at all? I seriously doubt anyone even in master+ uses only 3 hotkeys ever, as in never puts his scouts on a different hotkey, his army, et cetera. His mutas, his infestors, Saying you only use 3 hotkeys in total, or only 1 hotkey for army, just sounded ridiculous. That was what I was talking about.
And again, you are wrong. I've been playing people in high master with only 3 hotkeys total. Protoss with only nexus to one hotkey, gateway and robo on one and then units on 1. Zerg with all hatcheries on 1, 2 and 3 for units. I bet there is people up there with terran using like CC on one hotkey, every production facility together on one and then units on 1 too.
And there is alot of people using only 1 hotkey for your army. What you do is that you regroup and box alot. The best players I know doing this is MVP and MMA.
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On February 02 2012 20:55 Belial88 wrote:
I wasn't saying that every pro player puts their army on 3 hotkeys, but most put their army on at least 2 hotkeys. Actually I think most pros use 2 or more, ie roach/infestor/muta, or something to that effect.
What that person had posted, was saying he used 3 total other hotkeys, as in 3 hotkeys to include his army, queens, tech structures, scouting units, infestors, mutas, and hatcheries, and that's what I had a hard time understanding.
If I'm the one who misunderstood, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying.
I'm not saying you need to use lots of hotkeys (well you do), but I was thoroughly surprised this guy said he used 3 hotkeys only. Three hotkeys, and obviously 2 of the hotkeys are queens and hatcheries (at minimum). So that means his mutas, his infestors, his bl/infestor army, his ling/bane, his roach/hydra, he just balls them all together. Does that sound right to you at all? I seriously doubt anyone even in master+ uses only 3 hotkeys ever, as in never puts his scouts on a different hotkey, his army, et cetera. His mutas, his infestors, Saying you only use 3 hotkeys in total, or only 1 hotkey for army, just sounded ridiculous. That was what I was talking about.
If your refering to me, no you misunderstood. I use 3 hotkeys for army management and the rest for hatcheries, though 9 is sometimes tech and 0 is mass hatcheries in the lategame. I do not hotkey queens ever.
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1 - Army bulk, I.E. Lings/Roaches/Ultras
2 - Auxiliary army, I.E. Banelings/Hydras/Corruptors
3 - Specialised army, I.E. Mutas/Infestors
4 - Utility queens for early game, Broodlords added in when available
5 - All Hatches
6 - All Inject Queens
7 - Spine/Spore Crawler front-line
8 - Overseer
9 - All Overlords
0 - Nydus Worm
F2-F8 - Base camera keys
I like this most, cause it uses almost all aspects of sc2 zerg, however it can get tricky, but if you remember to Shift+9 your overlord eggs when hatching them, and with proper use of camera keys injects can be hit fairly regularly. My favorite thing about it is group 4, as by that time if I haven't been diligent, my queens will have 200/200 energy, and can transfuse the sweet bejesus into my broods.
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On February 03 2012 00:15 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 00:04 sapht wrote:
Not in the defense of this player, but you don't need to ball stuff just because you keep units on 1 hotkey. You can split units with your mouse as well. Lots of players have very good mouse control and minimap precision. I've seen Dimaga play on stream without setting hotkeys for queen or hatch, though only up to 2 base, he would manually click the queen and click the hatchery. Evidently not the fastest possible method, but serves to prove the irrelevancy of "feeling fast", that game was won because of superior decision making and baneling timing.
Though I myself have crap mouse precision and tend to use hotkeys often. No matter how fast you are with your mouse, it's downright impossible to get even close to keyboard speed. Obviously, this won't win or lose you games, then again, so won't worker splitting, yet everyone does that. I don't see why you would want to gimp yourself just because a pro does, hotkeys are always way faster than using the mouse.
Using a very predictable interface such as a keyboard is clearly more conducive to fast play than a mouse, but the question, as you mention, lies in the relevancy. If it doesn't affect your win record, why bother? For me, two reasons: RSI and fun. Keyboards are definitely fun. Splitting workers is also fun.
I watch a lot of BW, where top players often have army control on-par or even superior to their SC2 counterparts, despite crippling limitations on such things as hotkeying and unit selection. The charm instead lies in quickly reassigning hotkeys, some players (bisu) are impressively dynamic about them. Screen hotkeys are also in frequent use.
What bothers me about this thread is the assumption that you need to change the system; that you need to change the interface. I'm of the opinion that adapting yourself to the interface is more fruitful in the genre of Starcraft, a perspective which actually comprises a large portion of my interest in Starcraft.
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Here is my sutup:
1 - All Hatches
2 - Army 1
3 - Army 2
4 - Army 3
Caps - Nydus Network
F1 - Main Hatch + Main Queen
F2 - Natural Hatch + Queen
F3 - 3rd Hatch + Queen
F4 - Queen (Creep) //late game Queen + 4th Hatch
Tab - Location 1
Notes:
Injects: F1 F1 Space click (etc)
Add to control group : alt + group
Create control group 2,3,4 : alt+w, alt+e, alt+d // ctrl+group for everything else
Create location 1: ctr+tab
Attack move: R
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I have a Razer Naga, so I thought I could make use of the extra 14 buttons I have availible >.>
Camera locations bound to 1-8 on the Naga,
Bound hotkeys 9 and 0 to 11 and 12 on the Naga, which are used for Hatcheries and Queens respectively.
Cycle hatcheries is bound to mouse button 5 (Just next to left click)
This lets me use 1-8 on the Keyboard for whatever I want and I don't need to move away from the WASD area of the keyboard to inject, which I feel is pretty efficient.
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On February 03 2012 00:36 Mr.Rager wrote:
I use the backspace inject method rebound to spacebar. I've thought about changing it so each individual queen is on a hotkey like: a = 5 on keyboard, s = 6, d = 7.
My hotkey setup is as follows:
1 = Army 1
2 = Army 2
3 = Army 3
4 = Hatcheries
5 = Queens
6 = evo chambers
I really don't like using 7+ because its just too hard to reach for me.
I suggest using 7+ for overseers so you can quickly rally detection if you need it.
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How can i setup the FX's keys?
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This is a very interesting topic to me which I've thought a lot about so I registered to post this, been lurking for awhile. I think this topic will become even more important when HOTS comes out due to there being even more units available.
I switched after several months to the Grid setup built into SC so that I didn't ever need to use my right hand on the keyboard and can keep it on my mouse. I also play random a good bit, especially on 2v2+ so grid is especially helpful there and I use similar type bindings for the other races. That being said, my mouse only has two extra buttons so I'm considering getting the Razer Naga Hex so that I have more buttons to use especially for the Camera position buttons that are currently set to the F keys. which are hard for me to reach.
My Hotkey setup is as follows:
1 - Lings
2 - Hydras or Corrupters - anti-air
3 - Roaches or Ultras if I don't have both
4 - Infestors
Because I use grid I have them setup this way as T is attack, when I used the regular key setup I had it switched, I like to be able to hit ling and attack with different fingers for instance to improve speed, same thing with casting with the infestors.
5 - All Hatches
6 - is my Natural hatch at first, I use it for special units later in the game (BL or Ultras)
7 - Queens - is bound to one of my extra mouse buttons (G700 Logitech I think)
8 - utility queens - my other extra mouse button
9 - banelings (bound to tab)
0 - air, usually mutas - bound to spacebar
I use the backspace method to inject but have bound backspace to Shift-spacebar
As mentioned, when I get the mouse with more buttons (razer Hex), I will use the position cams more which is holding me back a bit right now I think cuz I can't easily reach the F keys
The reason I find this topic so interesting is that I feel like I need MORE hotkeys, ideally I'd like to have a unique hotkey for each unit type PLUS be able to have a couple of extra hotkeys available for drops etc. (secondary army groups).
I also think that when HOTS comes out, with more unit types, we'll all need more hotkeys than we do now, what do you guys think?
Regarding many pros using fewer hotkeys, is there any possibility that this comes from old habits formed from playing BW? I don't know how many hotkeys are available in BW but I'd expect it to be less than SC2. It's hard to break habits, especially when you've been playing as long as these guys have, also it's a toss up between should they take the time to change their hotkey setup or to get better at strat and practicing new timings etc., in other words, their current practice routine. For many pros it my be a decreasing utility question that isn't necessarily worth doing given their current level and the demands that places on their time. When I switched to the grid after playing for a few months, it took me at least two or three weeks for my mind to "unlearn" my old habits (only three months of play time), the keys that had been stored to a unconscious competence level and rebind them to the new setup, it would probably take even longer for these guys to make the change given how long they've been doing their old habits. That does NOT mean however that they're using the most efficient method possible or that if they where able to spend more time on the game to improve their hotkey setup and memorize it to the point of unconscious competence that they wouldn't be even better than they are now.
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On February 04 2012 06:33 Dr_Hyde wrote:
This is a very interesting topic to me which I've thought a lot about so I registered to post this, been lurking for awhile. I think this topic will become even more important when HOTS comes out due to there being even more units available.
I switched after several months to the Grid setup built into SC so that I didn't ever need to use my right hand on the keyboard and can keep it on my mouse. I also play random a good bit, especially on 2v2+ so grid is especially helpful there and I use similar type bindings for the other races. That being said, my mouse only has two extra buttons so I'm considering getting the Razer Naga Hex so that I have more buttons to use especially for the Camera position buttons that are currently set to the F keys. which are hard for me to reach.
My Hotkey setup is as follows:
1 - Lings
2 - Hydras or Corrupters - anti-air
3 - Roaches or Ultras if I don't have both
4 - Infestors
Because I use grid I have them setup this way as T is attack, when I used the regular key setup I had it switched, I like to be able to hit ling and attack with different fingers for instance to improve speed, same thing with casting with the infestors.
5 - All Hatches
6 - is my Natural hatch at first, I use it for special units later in the game (BL or Ultras)
7 - Queens - is bound to one of my extra mouse buttons (G700 Logitech I think)
8 - utility queens - my other extra mouse button
9 - banelings (bound to tab)
0 - air, usually mutas - bound to spacebar
I use the backspace method to inject but have bound backspace to Shift-spacebar
As mentioned, when I get the mouse with more buttons (razer Hex), I will use the position cams more which is holding me back a bit right now I think cuz I can't easily reach the F keys
The reason I find this topic so interesting is that I feel like I need MORE hotkeys, ideally I'd like to have a unique hotkey for each unit type PLUS be able to have a couple of extra hotkeys available for drops etc. (secondary army groups).
I also think that when HOTS comes out, with more unit types, we'll all need more hotkeys than we do now, what do you guys think?
Regarding many pros using fewer hotkeys, is there any possibility that this comes from old habits formed from playing BW? I don't know how many hotkeys are available in BW but I'd expect it to be less than SC2. It's hard to break habits, especially when you've been playing as long as these guys have, also it's a toss up between should they take the time to change their hotkey setup or to get better at strat and practicing new timings etc., in other words, their current practice routine. For many pros it my be a decreasing utility question that isn't necessarily worth doing given their current level and the demands that places on their time. When I switched to the grid after playing for a few months, it took me at least two or three weeks for my mind to "unlearn" my old habits (only three months of play time), the keys that had been stored to a unconscious competence level and rebind them to the new setup, it would probably take even longer for these guys to make the change given how long they've been doing their old habits. That does NOT mean however that they're using the most efficient method possible or that if they where able to spend more time on the game to improve their hotkey setup and memorize it to the point of unconscious competence that they wouldn't be even better than they are now.
They prioritize what units they need to hotkey in any scenario, not having designated keys for specific types of units or anything. In longer games you see trends of things like mutalisks often getting their own unique unit but thats about it. Its quite funny watching players like LosirA somehow do some of the best ZvZ baneling micro in the world without hotkeying any of his units. Mouse good tool.
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1 - Army
2 - Units in army that need to be controlled (Banelings, infestors)
3 - 2nd Control (Mutas or Infestors)
4 - Hatchers
5 - Queen
6 - Queen
7 - Queen
8 - Evo Chambers
9 - anything inmportant building that i might want to check.
I just use the standard hotkeys because I think its best.
I suppose that when talking about hotkeys you should mention APM so my apm in sc2gears is 250, but I don't think this setup needs much speed overall, apart from some game sense to know when to inject.
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1= Scout or Harass unit
2= Main army
3= Casters, special units ie Infestors, Broodlords, Banelings
4= Hatch 1
5= Hatch 2
6= Hatch 3
...
All the way up to Zero with the Hatches.
I inject by 44, grab queen, inject, 55 grab queen, inject. I like the time to check saturation and visually notice any buildings that need upgrades and stuff- it serves as a reminder. I found with "Backspace" injecting, I would fuck up my saturation and not upgrade as much. Also, fiddle with my army too much. Best not to get too comfy looking at any 1 thing. This method keeps me moving around a lot.
The whole system is to be able to 11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66 around the map and scout, harass, position army, then upgrade and tech and expand and just go in a cycle double tapping up and down the numbers.
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EPT
