• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:15
CEST 16:15
KST 23:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo14Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted J188 – Nhà Cái Cá Cược Trực Tuyến Đẳng Cấp Châu Á Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8682 users

[G] PvP- 4G, why you should never lose to it......

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 03:49:56
December 25 2011 05:06 GMT
#1
...on maps with a 2ndary ramp (for ladder, shak, antigua, one of those new ones.. the twilight one :p)

This will be a short guide. A cute little nAni build will be included as well! Consider it an Easter egg, a Christmas ornament as it were.

The meat
+ Show Spoiler +
Here is a generic opener that gets you a 2nd gas at a reasonable time (21 food, not too shabby), and can go into whatever style you'd like.

9 Pylon
12 Gateway
14 Gas
15 Pylon
17 Core
18 Zealot
21 Gas (2nd)
22 Stalker + wg (don't cb stalker; ~3 cb on WG should be fine. You just need to be able to get out a 2nd sentry with WG in time for the 2nd forcefield and that is all!)
25 Pylon (make sure you start this @100 mins!!
26 Stalker; CB it!!!
29 Tech structure of your choice! or additional gates if youre a scaredy cat
30 Sentry

This will net you a zealot and 2 stalkers by the time any kind of approach comes. Get to the 2ndary ramp asap!

This is the formation you want:
[image loading]


This is not what you want:
[image loading]

In the first screen capture, the stalkers are at the very lip of the ramp so that they are out of sight and can shoot the probe asap. In the 2nd one, they might have to move after you see the probe in order to start. bad! You might even consider having both stalkers closer to the inside corner of the ramp, still on the lip but hugging the wall where the probe will most likely try to mineral walk through.

Here comes the approach:
[image loading]

this game I didn't scout so I waste a few shots on the stalker before targeting the probe. As you'll see, this is fine even if he gets up 2 pylons below the ramp.

Kill the probe, and then kill the stalker. This shouldn't be a problem with any kind of reasonable correct micro:
[image loading]

After you kill the stalker for free, kill the zealot while retreating up your ramp. Your sentry should be done now. You want to kill the zealot before his pylons + WG is done to prevent an above-ramp warp-in or you're dead.

Once the zealot is dead, focus down the pylons 1 by 1. Only use your 1st forcefield when he is about to get vision up the ramp:
[image loading]

You should only get a 2nd sentry if you're being aggressed. Chain your 2nd ff with the first one:
[image loading]

Once the 2nd ff is down, you are in great shape! continue to warp in as many sentries as you need to keep chaining forcefields.

You'll bring down the 2nd pylon as your 2nd ff is in place, and then you've got it! It's really easy to forget your pylon on 32! Make sure you don't, or you might run out of FFs and lose immediately
[image loading]

GG


The potatoes
+ Show Spoiler +
This is most likely common knowledge for a lot of folks, but since I still hear people talking about losing to 4gate, I thought I'd share this little bit. I learned this from nAni at MLG. He did this build:

9 Pylon
12 Gateway
14 Gas
15 Pylon
17 Core
18 Zealot
21 Gas (2nd)
22 Stalker + wg (don't cb stalker; ~3 cb on WG should be fine. You just need to be able to get out a 2nd sentry with WG in time for the 2nd forcefield and that is all!)
25 Pylon (make sure you start this @100 mins!!
26 Stalker; CB it!!!
29 Twilight Council
30 Sentry
32 Gate
32 Gate
32 Pylon
** whatever you need to defend, then a robo and an obs **

If you aren't being agressed, you don't need to warp in anything until you have started your robo! cool stuff.

Anyway, try out this build and see how you like it. nani didn't really cut probes once he started producing units, and he expoed when I saw him do this against HuK after doing damage to HuK's earlier expansion, and then absolutely smoked the poor boy!

The reason this is most/more effective on maps with a 2ndary ramp is that the approach MUST go through a single point, so it's easier to focus down the probe. You can do this to some degree on other maps, as well, but you should NEVER lose to 4g on the maps specified in the intro doing this! gl!

Here is the replay from the screen shots for reference
http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16867
more replays
http://drop.sc/82667
http://drop.sc/82666

if you go robo after 3 gates and twilight, you are pretty safe vs everything but wp rush. you should always check for it when it should come. i miss it this game but still win somehow O_O

do what i did but check for wp a bit sooner so you can cancel your robo if need be
alejP v clashmercyP


Happy Holidays!
aLeJ


get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-25 05:29:20
December 25 2011 05:27 GMT
#2
If he saves an extra chrono & builds 2nd stalker before 2/3/4th gate (or it is a small map) he can pressure hard with 1z 2st and force you to waste that early FF (or you risk losing your sentry) and it'll be difficult to get a 2nd sentry out (if i remember correctly perfect execution you can't afford to use the first FF until 5:45 so you have time to get a 2nd sentry out).

Also, if he makes you waste the first FF quickly and then the 2nd one with 1 gateway you won't be able to get a 3rd sentry out quick enough.

I do the same build except i build a 2nd gate and start the sentry before the tech building. Feels much safer to me.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
December 25 2011 05:30 GMT
#3
On December 25 2011 14:27 Complete wrote:
If he saves an extra chrono & builds 2nd stalker before 2/3/4th gate (or it is a small map) he can pressure hard with 1z 2st and force you to waste that early FF (or you risk losing your sentry) and it'll be difficult to get a 2nd sentry out (if i remember correctly perfect execution you can't afford to use the first FF until 5:45 so you have time to get a 2nd sentry out).

Also, if he makes you waste the first FF quickly and then the 2nd one with 1 gateway you won't be able to get a 3rd sentry out quick enough.

I do the same build except i build a 2nd gate and start the sentry before the tech building. Feels much safer to me.

replay of this? seems like his 2nd stalker would be much too late to be of any help here.
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
name_lock
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada30 Posts
December 25 2011 16:45 GMT
#4
What if the zealot goes straight up your ramp instead of getting kited at the bottom?
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
December 25 2011 17:19 GMT
#5
On December 26 2011 01:45 name_lock wrote:
What if the zealot goes straight up your ramp instead of getting kited at the bottom?



The accompanying stalker will die even faster. Just make certain the zealot dies before the pylons finish.
Cycle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States300 Posts
December 25 2011 17:23 GMT
#6
Excellent guide!

Also, this might be a stupid addition, but can you add something about scouting your base for pylons?

It's kinda sad but I play at high diamond and have won many games by getting a pylon down in their base and 4 gating, and in my opinion that should never really happen.
| chKCycle.551 | NA | Master League Random | Checkmate Gaming |
K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
December 25 2011 17:41 GMT
#7
Oh wow, I noticed so people doing this too. Nice writeup, great guide! Thanks.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
December 25 2011 17:54 GMT
#8
I can't believe I've never done this before, it's so simple yet good
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
LEEKsc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Sweden380 Posts
December 25 2011 18:19 GMT
#9
sick guide as always alej :>

On December 26 2011 02:23 Cycle wrote:
Excellent guide!

Also, this might be a stupid addition, but can you add something about scouting your base for pylons?

It's kinda sad but I play at high diamond and have won many games by getting a pylon down in their base and 4 gating, and in my opinion that should never really happen.


just take a probe around the time youve scouted the area of your natural etc and positioned units on 2nd ramp (prolly around 5:10-5:20) and a-move it around possible locations of inbase pylons
RIP our beloved Amulet, we will never forget. // nAni #1 prOb rush
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
December 25 2011 18:30 GMT
#10
Glad to see PvP nowadays has evolved so much. I enjoy PvP on ladder more now cuz 4 gates defensive has much more advantage than ever.
hox
Profile Joined February 2010
United States59 Posts
December 25 2011 18:33 GMT
#11
Great guide! I'll definitely be using this. Tangential question - what do you usually do after you stop the 4gate? Go back to your normal build? Apply pressure in case he puts down an expansion immediately after?
The spice must flow.
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
December 25 2011 19:10 GMT
#12
Nice, this is slightly different from the way I defend, but I like it a lot with the early zealot, except for the key fact that you could be in some trouble if your 2nd gas gets stolen. I guess you could just 4gate yourself, but if your opponent defends they're in great shape. That's why I usually go 2nd gas first instead of getting the zealot, but of course getting the zealot has its advantages.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Sveet
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
December 25 2011 19:55 GMT
#13
Just block them from gas stealing and you don't have that issue. This build is very solid
TeCH_TT
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany63 Posts
December 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#14
nice guide thx but what tech would you prefer against 4 gate robo or twilight?
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 25 2011 22:54 GMT
#15
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD
I am Latedi.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
December 25 2011 23:15 GMT
#16
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.
Moderator
.Enigma
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom116 Posts
December 25 2011 23:43 GMT
#17
So, bring 2 probes when 4 gating on Shakuras and Antiga. Got it! Thanks for the help.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 25 2011 23:50 GMT
#18
On December 26 2011 08:15 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.


That depends a lot on your exact build, micro etc imo. Opinions and preferences basically. I'm glad Alej could explain it so well for me
I am Latedi.
CaptainHaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States240 Posts
December 26 2011 00:06 GMT
#19
On December 26 2011 08:50 Latedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 08:15 NrGmonk wrote:
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.


That depends a lot on your exact build, micro etc imo. Opinions and preferences basically. I'm glad Alej could explain it so well for me

I remember the thread you were referring to.

Of course opinions and preferences can differ, but at the same time can be wrong. Yes, I have to say that blind 3 gate robo is just silly to assume that it's safe against a 4 gate.
All of us warned you of the big white face.
DarkLegend
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom21 Posts
December 26 2011 00:21 GMT
#20
what do you do if they had a second probe behind and put a pylon out of range and just continued to mass up a large zealot stalker army on the low ground?
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
12:00
GSL CK #4 (PTR) - Day 1
Maru vs ShoWTimELIVE!
Solar vs Clem
SHIN 993
IntoTheiNu 401
CranKy Ducklings SOOP256
Rex41
Liquipedia
WardiTV Spring Champion…
11:00
Playoffs
WardiTV1248
TaKeTV 459
TKL 326
IndyStarCraft 171
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SHIN 993
TKL 326
IndyStarCraft 171
Railgan 87
Rex 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 49515
Shuttle 4321
Mini 2474
Horang2 731
Hyuk 598
firebathero 585
Zeus 375
BeSt 320
Soma 283
actioN 195
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 189
Last 123
Mong 116
Hyun 106
Pusan 77
Leta 77
ToSsGirL 37
PianO 34
910 28
Aegong 27
Barracks 27
scan(afreeca) 24
JYJ 21
Movie 19
JulyZerg 16
Sacsri 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Noble 11
Shine 11
Dota 2
XaKoH 443
420jenkins334
XcaliburYe280
BananaSlamJamma159
ODPixel92
Counter-Strike
fl0m5849
byalli399
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor284
Other Games
gofns34898
tarik_tv8393
singsing2326
B2W.Neo976
Lowko516
crisheroes296
Mlord211
KnowMe37
Trikslyr30
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV369
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Response 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3030
• Nemesis1765
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 1632
Upcoming Events
IPSL
1h 45m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4h 45m
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
9h 45m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
20h 45m
GSL
21h 45m
IPSL
1d 1h
Hawk vs Julia
Patches Events
1d 2h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 4h
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 9h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.