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[G] PvP- 4G, why you should never lose to it......

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 03:49:56
December 25 2011 05:06 GMT
#1
...on maps with a 2ndary ramp (for ladder, shak, antigua, one of those new ones.. the twilight one :p)

This will be a short guide. A cute little nAni build will be included as well! Consider it an Easter egg, a Christmas ornament as it were.

The meat
+ Show Spoiler +
Here is a generic opener that gets you a 2nd gas at a reasonable time (21 food, not too shabby), and can go into whatever style you'd like.

9 Pylon
12 Gateway
14 Gas
15 Pylon
17 Core
18 Zealot
21 Gas (2nd)
22 Stalker + wg (don't cb stalker; ~3 cb on WG should be fine. You just need to be able to get out a 2nd sentry with WG in time for the 2nd forcefield and that is all!)
25 Pylon (make sure you start this @100 mins!!
26 Stalker; CB it!!!
29 Tech structure of your choice! or additional gates if youre a scaredy cat
30 Sentry

This will net you a zealot and 2 stalkers by the time any kind of approach comes. Get to the 2ndary ramp asap!

This is the formation you want:
[image loading]


This is not what you want:
[image loading]

In the first screen capture, the stalkers are at the very lip of the ramp so that they are out of sight and can shoot the probe asap. In the 2nd one, they might have to move after you see the probe in order to start. bad! You might even consider having both stalkers closer to the inside corner of the ramp, still on the lip but hugging the wall where the probe will most likely try to mineral walk through.

Here comes the approach:
[image loading]

this game I didn't scout so I waste a few shots on the stalker before targeting the probe. As you'll see, this is fine even if he gets up 2 pylons below the ramp.

Kill the probe, and then kill the stalker. This shouldn't be a problem with any kind of reasonable correct micro:
[image loading]

After you kill the stalker for free, kill the zealot while retreating up your ramp. Your sentry should be done now. You want to kill the zealot before his pylons + WG is done to prevent an above-ramp warp-in or you're dead.

Once the zealot is dead, focus down the pylons 1 by 1. Only use your 1st forcefield when he is about to get vision up the ramp:
[image loading]

You should only get a 2nd sentry if you're being aggressed. Chain your 2nd ff with the first one:
[image loading]

Once the 2nd ff is down, you are in great shape! continue to warp in as many sentries as you need to keep chaining forcefields.

You'll bring down the 2nd pylon as your 2nd ff is in place, and then you've got it! It's really easy to forget your pylon on 32! Make sure you don't, or you might run out of FFs and lose immediately
[image loading]

GG


The potatoes
+ Show Spoiler +
This is most likely common knowledge for a lot of folks, but since I still hear people talking about losing to 4gate, I thought I'd share this little bit. I learned this from nAni at MLG. He did this build:

9 Pylon
12 Gateway
14 Gas
15 Pylon
17 Core
18 Zealot
21 Gas (2nd)
22 Stalker + wg (don't cb stalker; ~3 cb on WG should be fine. You just need to be able to get out a 2nd sentry with WG in time for the 2nd forcefield and that is all!)
25 Pylon (make sure you start this @100 mins!!
26 Stalker; CB it!!!
29 Twilight Council
30 Sentry
32 Gate
32 Gate
32 Pylon
** whatever you need to defend, then a robo and an obs **

If you aren't being agressed, you don't need to warp in anything until you have started your robo! cool stuff.

Anyway, try out this build and see how you like it. nani didn't really cut probes once he started producing units, and he expoed when I saw him do this against HuK after doing damage to HuK's earlier expansion, and then absolutely smoked the poor boy!

The reason this is most/more effective on maps with a 2ndary ramp is that the approach MUST go through a single point, so it's easier to focus down the probe. You can do this to some degree on other maps, as well, but you should NEVER lose to 4g on the maps specified in the intro doing this! gl!

Here is the replay from the screen shots for reference
http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16867
more replays
http://drop.sc/82667
http://drop.sc/82666

if you go robo after 3 gates and twilight, you are pretty safe vs everything but wp rush. you should always check for it when it should come. i miss it this game but still win somehow O_O

do what i did but check for wp a bit sooner so you can cancel your robo if need be
alejP v clashmercyP


Happy Holidays!
aLeJ


get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-25 05:29:20
December 25 2011 05:27 GMT
#2
If he saves an extra chrono & builds 2nd stalker before 2/3/4th gate (or it is a small map) he can pressure hard with 1z 2st and force you to waste that early FF (or you risk losing your sentry) and it'll be difficult to get a 2nd sentry out (if i remember correctly perfect execution you can't afford to use the first FF until 5:45 so you have time to get a 2nd sentry out).

Also, if he makes you waste the first FF quickly and then the 2nd one with 1 gateway you won't be able to get a 3rd sentry out quick enough.

I do the same build except i build a 2nd gate and start the sentry before the tech building. Feels much safer to me.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
December 25 2011 05:30 GMT
#3
On December 25 2011 14:27 Complete wrote:
If he saves an extra chrono & builds 2nd stalker before 2/3/4th gate (or it is a small map) he can pressure hard with 1z 2st and force you to waste that early FF (or you risk losing your sentry) and it'll be difficult to get a 2nd sentry out (if i remember correctly perfect execution you can't afford to use the first FF until 5:45 so you have time to get a 2nd sentry out).

Also, if he makes you waste the first FF quickly and then the 2nd one with 1 gateway you won't be able to get a 3rd sentry out quick enough.

I do the same build except i build a 2nd gate and start the sentry before the tech building. Feels much safer to me.

replay of this? seems like his 2nd stalker would be much too late to be of any help here.
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
name_lock
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada30 Posts
December 25 2011 16:45 GMT
#4
What if the zealot goes straight up your ramp instead of getting kited at the bottom?
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
December 25 2011 17:19 GMT
#5
On December 26 2011 01:45 name_lock wrote:
What if the zealot goes straight up your ramp instead of getting kited at the bottom?



The accompanying stalker will die even faster. Just make certain the zealot dies before the pylons finish.
Cycle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States300 Posts
December 25 2011 17:23 GMT
#6
Excellent guide!

Also, this might be a stupid addition, but can you add something about scouting your base for pylons?

It's kinda sad but I play at high diamond and have won many games by getting a pylon down in their base and 4 gating, and in my opinion that should never really happen.
| chKCycle.551 | NA | Master League Random | Checkmate Gaming |
K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
December 25 2011 17:41 GMT
#7
Oh wow, I noticed so people doing this too. Nice writeup, great guide! Thanks.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
December 25 2011 17:54 GMT
#8
I can't believe I've never done this before, it's so simple yet good
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
LEEKsc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Sweden380 Posts
December 25 2011 18:19 GMT
#9
sick guide as always alej :>

On December 26 2011 02:23 Cycle wrote:
Excellent guide!

Also, this might be a stupid addition, but can you add something about scouting your base for pylons?

It's kinda sad but I play at high diamond and have won many games by getting a pylon down in their base and 4 gating, and in my opinion that should never really happen.


just take a probe around the time youve scouted the area of your natural etc and positioned units on 2nd ramp (prolly around 5:10-5:20) and a-move it around possible locations of inbase pylons
RIP our beloved Amulet, we will never forget. // nAni #1 prOb rush
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
December 25 2011 18:30 GMT
#10
Glad to see PvP nowadays has evolved so much. I enjoy PvP on ladder more now cuz 4 gates defensive has much more advantage than ever.
hox
Profile Joined February 2010
United States59 Posts
December 25 2011 18:33 GMT
#11
Great guide! I'll definitely be using this. Tangential question - what do you usually do after you stop the 4gate? Go back to your normal build? Apply pressure in case he puts down an expansion immediately after?
The spice must flow.
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
December 25 2011 19:10 GMT
#12
Nice, this is slightly different from the way I defend, but I like it a lot with the early zealot, except for the key fact that you could be in some trouble if your 2nd gas gets stolen. I guess you could just 4gate yourself, but if your opponent defends they're in great shape. That's why I usually go 2nd gas first instead of getting the zealot, but of course getting the zealot has its advantages.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Sveet
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
December 25 2011 19:55 GMT
#13
Just block them from gas stealing and you don't have that issue. This build is very solid
TeCH_TT
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany63 Posts
December 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#14
nice guide thx but what tech would you prefer against 4 gate robo or twilight?
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 25 2011 22:54 GMT
#15
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD
I am Latedi.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
December 25 2011 23:15 GMT
#16
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.
Moderator
.Enigma
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom116 Posts
December 25 2011 23:43 GMT
#17
So, bring 2 probes when 4 gating on Shakuras and Antiga. Got it! Thanks for the help.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 25 2011 23:50 GMT
#18
On December 26 2011 08:15 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.


That depends a lot on your exact build, micro etc imo. Opinions and preferences basically. I'm glad Alej could explain it so well for me
I am Latedi.
CaptainHaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States240 Posts
December 26 2011 00:06 GMT
#19
On December 26 2011 08:50 Latedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 08:15 NrGmonk wrote:
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.


That depends a lot on your exact build, micro etc imo. Opinions and preferences basically. I'm glad Alej could explain it so well for me

I remember the thread you were referring to.

Of course opinions and preferences can differ, but at the same time can be wrong. Yes, I have to say that blind 3 gate robo is just silly to assume that it's safe against a 4 gate.
All of us warned you of the big white face.
DarkLegend
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom21 Posts
December 26 2011 00:21 GMT
#20
what do you do if they had a second probe behind and put a pylon out of range and just continued to mass up a large zealot stalker army on the low ground?
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