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On December 26 2011 09:06 CaptainHaz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 08:50 Latedi wrote:On December 26 2011 08:15 NrGmonk wrote:On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision. That depends a lot on your exact build, micro etc imo. Opinions and preferences basically. I'm glad Alej could explain it so well for me  I remember the thread you were referring to. Of course opinions and preferences can differ, but at the same time can be wrong. Yes, I have to say that blind 3 gate robo is just silly to assume that it's safe against a 4 gate.
That's the protoss D/H thread :p Obviously going blind is stupid but look at the build in Alej's guide right here, that's a lot less safe, even though it's completely safe against a 4gate. I hope that made any sense.
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On December 26 2011 09:21 DarkLegend wrote:
what do you do if they had a second probe behind and put a pylon out of range and just continued to mass up a large zealot stalker army on the low ground?
You have more time to make sentries, as well as get your tech structure up (like a robo for immortals). 4gates are at their strongest when they first hit within the first wave or two of warp-ins
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On December 26 2011 02:23 Cycle wrote:Excellent guide! Also, this might be a stupid addition, but can you add something about scouting your base for pylons?  It's kinda sad but I play at high diamond and have won many games by getting a pylon down in their base and 4 gating, and in my opinion that should never really happen.
scouting in-base pylons- make sure you do it! :D they'll become dangerous around the 5:00 mark where you might not be able to take them down if you see them in time. it happens to the best players in the world, still. you're playing defensively so there's no reason not to take your zealot and just have him rally around the edges of your base!
On December 26 2011 03:33 hox wrote:
Great guide! I'll definitely be using this. Tangential question - what do you usually do after you stop the 4gate? Go back to your normal build? Apply pressure in case he puts down an expansion immediately after?
the only change is that i have a few extra sentries. I still get my twilight up, though my blink is a bit slower. however, if he is 4gating you, you really should be able to win from there no matter what you do or what he does because it's such a huge investment that falls flat, meanwhile you have 2 gases, tech, and you didn't invest all your money into useless units!
On December 26 2011 04:10 -orb- wrote:
Nice, this is slightly different from the way I defend, but I like it a lot with the early zealot, except for the key fact that you could be in some trouble if your 2nd gas gets stolen. I guess you could just 4gate yourself, but if your opponent defends they're in great shape. That's why I usually go 2nd gas first instead of getting the zealot, but of course getting the zealot has its advantages.
2nd gas at 21 is pretty early! if they steal it before 21 food that means you can still steal theirs, unless they did 2nd gas on 18, in which case just wtf4gatepwn them because they have 3 gases, most likely no zealot and 150 mins gone to waste on non units and non gates! alternatively a very fast 3 gate would be nice, though i like to make sure i can secure a pylon on the high ground before doing anything like that. imo if you can't secure a high ground pylon, you're just counting on them screwing up by not having enough sentries via supply block etc.
On December 26 2011 07:45 TeCH_TT wrote:
nice guide thx but what tech would you prefer against 4 gate robo or twilight?
if you have good micro go blink and end the game the second you finish it!
On December 26 2011 08:43 .Enigma wrote:
So, bring 2 probes when 4 gating on Shakuras and Antiga. Got it! Thanks for the help.
trolololol xD
On December 26 2011 09:21 DarkLegend wrote:
what do you do if they had a second probe behind and put a pylon out of range and just continued to mass up a large zealot stalker army on the low ground?
ezpz 1 ff and delayed 4gate is dead in the water, so long as you can continue to warp in as many as you need
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in the game i saw nani vs huk, nani didn't even scout with this until after 15. this makes me confident that he is comfortable vs a lot of stuff inc 3 gate pressures and 4gate. i haven't seem him use it vs 3 gate pressure so i'm not sure the adjustments he makes; i wouldn't recommend forgoing scouting altogether though as you probably want to scout 15 the latest through the middle on antigua to look for proxy gates and the like. peace of mind is good, but not always necessary if you're a gosu like nani i suppose :p
cheers!
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On December 26 2011 09:21 DarkLegend wrote:
what do you do if they had a second probe behind and put a pylon out of range and just continued to mass up a large zealot stalker army on the low ground?
Go Robo and proceed to drop him if he is still making a "contain" ? You can go immortal sentry hold the ramp while dropping him.. There you go :D
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How do you find this work against that 11gate 3gate pressure? I think it should work in theory but I'm unsure.
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i would assume as long as you got the probe you'd be all good
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On December 26 2011 20:07 DarkLegend wrote:
i would assume as long as you got the probe you'd be all good
Yeah, but will the second stalker still be there in time?
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On December 26 2011 20:13 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 20:07 DarkLegend wrote:
i would assume as long as you got the probe you'd be all good Yeah, but will the second stalker still be there in time?
not sure. i'd be happy to go through some dry runs with you. not sure when i'll be on today. about to pass out, wake up in a few hours, spend the afternoon wit gf then hop on for some games! shoot me a pm if you'd like to play some on na or eu.
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Great guide but I have a question. How do you deal with 3 stalker rush into 4 gate? I'm only plat but one of my friends has a tendency to do that every game we play.
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On December 26 2011 21:19 iREight wrote:
Great guide but I have a question. How do you deal with 3 stalker rush into 4 gate? I'm only plat but one of my friends has a tendency to do that every game we play.
you're saying he's pushing up the ramp with the 3 stalkers as soon as he gets them? post a replay here and we'll take a look
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On December 26 2011 21:19 iREight wrote:
Great guide but I have a question. How do you deal with 3 stalker rush into 4 gate? I'm only plat but one of my friends has a tendency to do that every game we play.
Snipe the probe then retreat up your ramp.
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Nice post, a game where the opponent plays standard, any style but 4 gate, would be appreciated!
Not necessary for smart people since the transition out of this is surely very normal and natural but I would really appreciate it because my timing is often off with blink (+obs) builds
btw. I just saw a vileYong replay, he opens the same, 21 gas, cb 2nd stalker etc. but he gets 2nd and 3rd gate before twilight
what i thought was interesting was that vileyong actually cancelled his sentry when he realized there was no attack incoming, and then immediately got the twilight council at 29 food with his 2nd and 3rd gate about 50% done.
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On December 27 2011 11:19 7mk wrote:
Nice post, a game where the opponent plays standard, any style but 4 gate, would be appreciated!
Not necessary for smart people since the transition out of this is surely very normal and natural but I would really appreciate it because my timing is often off with blink (+obs) builds
btw. I just saw a vileYong replay, he opens the same, 21 gas, cb 2nd stalker etc. but he gets 2nd and 3rd gate before twilight
what i thought was interesting was that vileyong actually cancelled his sentry when he realized there was no attack incoming, and then immediately got the twilight council at 29 food with his 2nd and 3rd gate about 50% done.
i'd be very careful with that! unless you can really get a full scout, having that 1 sentry out is pretty key if they're doing a weird delayed 4 gate. it sounds weird, but i've lost to it from being greedy after getting complacent after nothing came at the usual timing. there probably isn't much different between getting the council 1st and the gateways 1st; it doesn't really make yong safe in that game as the sentry is what is keeping you alive from the delayed 4gate not gates 2 and 3.
Your blink will be a bit slower with gates first obviously, but a fast blink is really only necessary if you're doing a blink rush or if they're doing a blink rush since getting caught moving across the map vs blink with no blink is insta gg. so that version will just move out a bit later.
i like nani's since you can get a lot of free units since fast blink has kind of been phased out since the nerf, and the 1 sentry + however many you need will keep you safe from everything but WP or phoenix. i recommend scouting for the wp around when your blink is done off of 1 gate twilight as that's generally when the wp would come, perhaps a bit sooner depending on their build.
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On December 25 2011 14:06 Alejandrisha wrote:
Going to put together a speed colo drop out of 15 nexus guide momentarily. Hold tight!
omg can you please devote a good chunk of that guide on how to micro the prism/colossi >_> i'm so bad at it
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This seems like a solid build to me and I think it would certainly stop most standard 4Gates on these maps. However, I think that if your opponent puts a chrono onto the first Stalker (something that I'll do occasionally, depending on what I scout) instead of all of them on WG, their Stalker and Zealot should be at your ramp before your second Stalker is out. Obviously you still have a high ground advantage but it does force a micro battle and can get pretty ugly. If you could test that out I'd be interested in knowing the results!
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How is this new or anything? 3 stalker rush, or defensive 3 gate or getting 2 stalkers and sentry. There is already so many variations of builds that can defend 4 gate with ramp every time. I don't understand why would you post new build unless it's better than older ones.
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Nice guide, but a decent scout and a zealot stalker poke will prove a 4 gate and a few sentries during a 3 gate robo basically own a 4 gate to hell and back.
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On December 27 2011 16:23 Dariusz wrote:
How is this new or anything? 3 stalker rush, or defensive 3 gate or getting 2 stalkers and sentry. There is already so many variations of builds that can defend 4 gate with ramp every time. I don't understand why would you post new build unless it's better than older ones.
sorry if i've offended you. some people like having more options.
i personally don't like 3 stalker rushing to stop 4 gate as you have to cut probes and most of the time i don't want to have such a 2nd quick gate before teching, as it's quite an investment at 18-20 food or whenever one chooses to get it. if you can't understand why i choose to post this build then you obviously don't have any of these problems and you can just ignore it or choose not use it. i, personally, don't understand why you'd take the 30 seconds out of your life to call me out for contributing. maybe you can explain that one.
if you can't understand the advantage this build gives you in terms of having the thinnest possible defense, then i guess it isn't for you and you can keep wasting gas on extraneous sentries.
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On December 27 2011 16:18 gdalam wrote:
This seems like a solid build to me and I think it would certainly stop most standard 4Gates on these maps. However, I think that if your opponent puts a chrono onto the first Stalker (something that I'll do occasionally, depending on what I scout) instead of all of them on WG, their Stalker and Zealot should be at your ramp before your second Stalker is out. Obviously you still have a high ground advantage but it does force a micro battle and can get pretty ugly. If you could test that out I'd be interested in knowing the results!
on what map would their 1st chrono boosted stalker and zealot get to my ramp with probe/zealot before my 2nd stalker is out?? replay?
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On December 26 2011 04:10 -orb- wrote:
Nice, this is slightly different from the way I defend, but I like it a lot with the early zealot, except for the key fact that you could be in some trouble if your 2nd gas gets stolen. I guess you could just 4gate yourself, but if your opponent defends they're in great shape. That's why I usually go 2nd gas first instead of getting the zealot, but of course getting the zealot has its advantages.
I think that if you get gas stolen and they take double gas themselves you can do a 1 gate expansion safely. Just let the zealot kill the assimilator, use your stalker to chase out the probe or kill it and then expand. Use all chrono on warpgate tech and warpgates and the nexus should finish around the same time. Nexus costs around 300 mins considering it counts as a pylon too, they've spent 150 mins more on assimilators, i think you can hold it as long as you can scout they didn't fake a 1 gas 4 gate (not mining from second gas).
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EPT
