EPTOn November 24 2011 13:50 Alejandrisha wrote:
i'll have a friend of mine 6pool me and i'll upload it in the near future
i'll have a friend of mine 6pool me and i'll upload it in the near future
thanks!
[G] PvZ HerOic FFE - Page 5
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Turo
Canada333 Posts
thanks! | ||
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Leafs
Canada41 Posts
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StarGalaxy
Germany744 Posts
Feel free to improve the builds. The chrono timings might be slightly off. Builds are without army units. FFE http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCafaafaoEaaaaoAoDoGoCaafaoBoBoFfaaccfaafaaaaoCaafafaoCaaafafaaaaaaaffaa 1 Gate FE http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCafaaaoDfaaoBacfaoCoFaaoBacaafaoCafaoCafaaoAfaaaaafaafa The result at 7 min for FFE compared to 1 gate FE is: +60 mins -320 gas +7 probs +1 forge +1 canon So seems definitly worth it to FEE. But i personally don't like to do it on maps with open natural. I think even with 2 canons its hard to defend all ins, like we saw in the MLG finals... | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
On November 24 2011 23:36 OrbitalPlane wrote: You always hear that FFE is way more economical than 1 gate FE. I tested it with a build order planer: Feel free to improve the builds. The chrono timings might be slightly off. Builds are without army units. FFE http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCafaafaoEaaaaoAoDoGoCaafaoBoBoFfaaccfaafaaaaoCaafafaoCaaafafaaaaaaaffaa 1 Gate FE http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCafaaaoDfaaoBacfaoCoFaaoBacaafaoCafaoCafaaoAfaaaaafaafa The result at 7 min for FFE compared to 1 gate FE is: +60 mins -320 gas +7 probs +1 forge +1 canon So seems definitly worth it to FEE. But i personally don't like to do it on maps with open natural. I think even with 2 canons its hard to defend all ins, like we saw in the MLG finals... That completely ignores the fact that with 1g FE Z has to be afraid of pressure the first 8 minutes compared to the FFE. Has to be afraid of nexus cancels etc. etc. (not saying which is better, just saying your statistics aren't the end discussion). | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
Do you just warp in 4z and walk them over to your opponents third? | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On November 27 2011 05:35 Arisen wrote: I highly recommend people try HerO's PvZ style out, and this is a really nice intro guide into his style. I think a great game for people trying to learn HerO's style is his series vs Sheth in the dreamhack winter 2011 ro16(or 8?). HerO's a genius with this harass; he reminds me a bit of Jaedong, he just demands control of the game with his awesome micro and speed and when he can dictate that control, he just looks unstoppable PvZ. Really? Hero reminds you of Jeadong? He reminds me more of Bisu. This style is awesome, but requires some serious practice. My win rate vs Z has plummeted since adopting this style, but I know it's just a matter of time before I get the multitasking down. But i have the same question as CrazyF1r3f0x. What do you do if you probes are discovered. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On November 27 2011 04:56 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: So what if you don't get any of the hidden pylons down? Do you just warp in 4z and walk them over to your opponents third? You can. You won't do anything vs 2/3 base roach in that case, but if he is only pure ling you can still do damage and force additional lings. If you can't get any pylons up you should, in desperation, try to establish a somewhat closer one with the zealot(s) you made from your GW | ||
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WrathOfAiur
Germany243 Posts
On November 27 2011 07:15 Alejandrisha wrote: You can. You won't do anything vs 2/3 base roach in that case, but if he is only pure ling you can still do damage and force additional lings. If you can't get any pylons up you should, in desperation, try to establish a somewhat closer one with the zealot(s) you made from your GW if it completely fails, I prefer warping in some sentries at my natural and gear up to take a third. | ||
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habermas
United Kingdom304 Posts
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Canopus
Canada27 Posts
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bankai
362 Posts
On November 28 2011 16:11 Canopus wrote: I'm a mid masters protoss and have been playing this build for about a week. I read your response to 3 base roach zerg and it sounds grimm. I'm noticing a competent zerg can prevent you from killing the 3rd (even with a very close pylon), and your listed response is warp prism harras with dts and zealots to try and snipe buildings. I don't like this response because if the zerg doesn't make mistakes your going to lose. Your basically hoping for the zerg to screw up. Have you found any other responses that work? I've won a few games by responding with a very fast 3rd, but I feel as though a strong player will kill you in that window. I am also having problems with 3 base roach. On maps like Meta where the third is close, the roaches can easily walk over and deny the zealot harass. DT has worked to some extent but sometimes they blindly drop spores and deny that too, Anyone know how to play against 3-base roach where the 3rd is early? Also, how do you know when its safe to take a third yourself against this? I have faced so many roach into muta transitions, its really hard to deal with. I want to go Colossus against Roach, but then Muta would be hard to stop. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On December 01 2011 08:27 bankai wrote: I am also having problems with 3 base roach. On maps like Meta where the third is close, the roaches can easily walk over and deny the zealot harass. DT has worked to some extent but sometimes they blindly drop spores and deny that too, Anyone know how to play against 3-base roach where the 3rd is early? Also, how do you know when its safe to take a third yourself against this? I have faced so many roach into muta transitions, its really hard to deal with. I want to go Colossus against Roach, but then Muta would be hard to stop. Some thoughts on this from an experienced player? Was thinking, does taking an early third ourselves work against 3-base roach (zerg taking an early third)? | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On December 02 2011 07:51 bankai wrote: Some thoughts on this from an experienced player? Was thinking, does taking an early third ourselves work against 3-base roach (zerg taking an early third)? I haven't really played much of the really early WP+DT stuff, but I often open similarly up until the robo+twilight+zealot harass. I think getting blink and collossi is a much easier way to play. You can easily take a 3rd against 3 base roach at around 13 minutes, with 2 collossi out. Dealing with the mutas that often follow the roach opening just requires a good sense of when mutas will come. Make 1-2 cannons and move blink stalkers into position at that time. Like canopus said, you can't kill their 3rd base even with a close pylon if they have roaches up in time. However, you can pull back your 7-8 zealots without losing many, and warp in 4 stalkers to force even more roaches+lings. Unless they make a lot of speedlings in addition to the roaches, you should get away without losing many units. Even if they have enough speedlings to catch your units, I think the harass is almost always worth it economically. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On December 02 2011 08:51 iSTime wrote: I haven't really played much of the really early WP+DT stuff, but I often open similarly up until the robo+twilight+zealot harass. I think getting blink and collossi is a much easier way to play. You can easily take a 3rd against 3 base roach at around 13 minutes, with 2 collossi out. Dealing with the mutas that often follow the roach opening just requires a good sense of when mutas will come. Make 1-2 cannons and move blink stalkers into position at that time. Like canopus said, you can't kill their 3rd base even with a close pylon if they have roaches up in time. However, you can pull back your 7-8 zealots without losing many, and warp in 4 stalkers to force even more roaches+lings. Unless they make a lot of speedlings in addition to the roaches, you should get away without losing many units. Even if they have enough speedlings to catch your units, I think the harass is almost always worth it economically. Thanks for your advice Time! So on your 2nd paragraph, are you saying against 3-base roach you should still go ahead with the 8zealot pressure, but just wait for the next 4 stalker warp-in...in other words, still focus on denying their 3rd, but do it with an additional 4 stalkers? Just trying to clear in my head the overall strategy against 3base roach - it sounds like the only way to play against this is to deny their third. If not, then we are way behind economically. And taking our own 3rd is not feasible cos they can roach spam shortly afterwards....is that correct? | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On December 02 2011 09:39 bankai wrote: Thanks for your advice Time! So on your 2nd paragraph, are you saying against 3-base roach you should still go ahead with the 8zealot pressure, but just wait for the next 4 stalker warp-in...in other words, still focus on denying their 3rd, but do it with an additional 4 stalkers? Just trying to clear in my head the overall strategy against 3base roach - it sounds like the only way to play against this is to deny their third. If not, then we are way behind economically. And taking our own 3rd is not feasible cos they can roach spam shortly afterwards....is that correct? My experience is that the bolded is not true. The stalkers aren't really there to deny the 3rd, they're mostly there to scare the zerg into overproducing units and maybe kill a roach or two. I don't think you should ever be able to kill the 3rd base against a player who makes roaches, the purpose is just to force non-drones. It is acceptable for your 3rd to be placed later than theirs as long as you are keeping up on workers and being cost-effective with harass. | ||
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ntvarify
United States331 Posts
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WolfBro
United States59 Posts
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bankai
362 Posts
On December 02 2011 14:39 iSTime wrote: My experience is that the bolded is not true. The stalkers aren't really there to deny the 3rd, they're mostly there to scare the zerg into overproducing units and maybe kill a roach or two. I don't think you should ever be able to kill the 3rd base against a player who makes roaches, the purpose is just to force non-drones. It is acceptable for your 3rd to be placed later than theirs as long as you are keeping up on workers and being cost-effective with harass. Great thanks again Time! Alej - any luck on that 2zealot scouting idea (page 3 of this thread)? Have been using this build a lot lately, and have to say it works wonders against the early third style but still having problems scouting 2-base play. From what i can see, they can do broadly one of three things: (a) Take a later (and safer) third with roaches or roach/hydra after getting saturation at their 2-bases (b) Mutas or ling/infestor (c) 7:30 roach/ling all-in Scouting the difference between (a) and (c) I find is hard, so always prepare for the 7:30min all-in with more sentries/cannons. If it doesnt come by 8mins, then I put down my robo/TC. But doing this means I wont get a WP or observer scout until 9:30min (?). Then I can either tech colossi (if roach/hydra) or blink/HT (if muta/infestor) but its this point I struggle to decide cos I dont have enough info from scouting yet. So want to know how do you effectively scout and respond to zerg 2-base play? | ||
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FilipSRB
Serbia63 Posts
On December 01 2011 08:27 bankai wrote: I am also having problems with 3 base roach. On maps like Meta where the third is close, the roaches can easily walk over and deny the zealot harass. DT has worked to some extent but sometimes they blindly drop spores and deny that too, Anyone know how to play against 3-base roach where the 3rd is early? Maybe something resembling Naniwa's build that Day9 explained in one of his dailies, with 2 chronoed immortals? | ||
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