EPTYou can find the replay packs on his stream thread.
I stole the build from there, and this is a great writeup.
Thanks Alejandrisha!
[G] PvZ HerOic FFE - Page 2
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AsherSC
United States30 Posts
You can find the replay packs on his stream thread. I stole the build from there, and this is a great writeup. Thanks Alejandrisha! | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Also, this is probably obvious to everyone, but you can also go colossus if they're not going muta. You sort of made it seem like the opening transitions better into immortal/HT, but colossus works fine too. Great guide tho. Thanks for posting. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
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MagickMan
Australia498 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On November 22 2011 16:07 MagickMan wrote: Do you guys ffe every map?!?!? Yep. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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WrathOfAiur
Germany243 Posts
On November 22 2011 14:25 SaroVati wrote: I'd recommend taking your 3rd as soon as your pressure begins to hit, and drop down 4 additional gateways. this sounds extremely risky if he has early roaches and just rallies them over. I wouldn't recommend that.adding 2 more gates and adding stalkers like the op suggests is a lot safer. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
I have to say man, you were ahead of your time quite a bit - I remember when you were doing 15nex/FFE when everyone and their mother used 3 gate sentry expo lol. Very nice guide, though I almost never use DTs any more...they seem to put me behind every single time I do "not" get a free-win. And while free-wins are awsome, that's not exactly what I'm aiming for in a stable playstyle... | ||
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Xenorawks
158 Posts
In some games if I notice a quick third/scouted that there is no all-in, I'll get the Stalker instead of Sentry to chase/kill any overlord that tries to scout my base faster. It's good if you manage to don't use the cybercore as part of the wall too. Mainly because zerg will know something is up if the core is being chronoboosted more than a few times. It's quite important to attempt to chase away any lings sitting outside your base with the zealot if you are going to be chronoboosting the +1 on the forge. Another thing is if the situation allows you to delay/cut down on sentries, you can save up for a stargate and show it to an Overlord if you see any coming to scout, you can choose not to build anything from the stargate or just cancel it once the overlord is dead. This will give the zerg more things to think about, spores, extra queens, moving his overlords, maybe a faster lair etc. Some disagree with me that by showing the stargate you somehow "force" the zerg to get detection(spores or faster lair for Overseer) but I rather have my zealot attack be slightly more effective compared to relying on DTs making it in their base without them having detection. The warpprism should be warping in zealots together with DTs to take out spores in the main if necessary anyway. | ||
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Xenorawks
158 Posts
On November 22 2011 14:47 Necrophantasia wrote: Im only at the platinum level, so you may not encounter this as a response to an free at your level, but how do you defend a hydra with range upgrade all in with this? You list roach/muta/ling/bling but no hydra Your zealots will do nothing. Your stalkers won't do much and your sentries won't save you on meta/taldarim/xnc. Going to check your replays and the vods once I get home to see if this is a way that I can play given my piss poor apm. To put it this way, by doing this build you basically almost always force the zerg to go roaches(he most probably already have the roach warren down to prevent any 7/8 gate all-ins anyway). For him to go hydras it would not only take time, but it is also scoutable with your obs. If you know it's coming, just throw down a robo bay for colossi instead of going down the DT path. This is the easiest way to deal with mass hydra all-in. On the other hand, I prefer to go blink stalker DT vs Hydras. Why? If he were to do any Hydra all-in right after your 4 gate push, it would be mad of him because there simply is no creep in the first place(if he is active in spreading/short rush distance, of course you must clear it before it reaches your base), meaning there is no retreat for his hydras. Blink stalkers don't do bad vs hydras off-creep as long as they don't get to get too close, this can be easily done by using sentries. Besides that, DTs do extremely well against hydras because they have crappy HP and they can't kite backwards. How many Overseers will a zerg normally bring if you never showed your DTs before? Usually you will only see one. So just warp in DTs, blink and snipe that overseer, chop down those slow hydras all the way back to their base. By the time he morphs in another overseer his army would be half gone. Don't forget zerg would want every gas possible dumped into his hydra army, not overseer if he's doing an all-in. That is why you rarely see hydra all-ins, it's gas intensive, and pretty damn weak unless he manages to get creep into your base. Just don't let a nydus pop out and you are fine. As far as I know, I've never seen someone going hydra all-in after I 4gate rush them after FFE. It's suicide. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
 We have many protoss builds posted on TL but they are often not this solid. I have been working on hero's forge FE into fast DT strat myself as seen in the epic game between him and idra on metalopolis. This strategy however gets pressure on earlier, is safer to 2base all ins and gets tech just a little slower. Do you think hero techs DTs really fast when he thinks he can abuse something/wants to take a risk or did he just change his style to something more solid?Also I'm glad that this is an aggressive/harassive build which requires higher APM and good multitasking. Deathball vs deathball needs to die ^^ Edit: Ooh I now realize this is almost the exact same build naniwa was using in his PvZs at MLG Providence. He got some fast zealot warp ins using +1, transitioning into warp prisms and colossus on 2 bases. | ||
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Xenorawks
158 Posts
On November 22 2011 15:04 bankai wrote: Ok just finished reading and loving it. 2 questions: 1) "Grind out the above builds until you reach the point where you have warped in 8 zealots, a robotics and a twilight council until you are comfortable with this style." So do you always get 8 zealots blindly apart from 2-base roach? 2) Silly question actually - but when is the 'normal' zerg 3rd base taken (e.g. in 3-base roach builds) so I can distinguish if im facing 2-base play or not. 3) Would using a 2zealot scout instead of 2probes as u suggest put this build behind? Is it going to miss some sorta timing by putting the 2nd/3rd/4th GW a little later? Just feel that 2zealot scout is more reliable cos my probes mite die too quickly! 4) When facing 2-base roach or 3-base roach, how do u know when to take the third base? Thanks - very excited to try this out! 1. By attacking before/at 8 minutes, you don't really expect roaches yet. Only lings and maybe spines. So yes zealots only since they kill lings in 2 hits with +1 and just deals ridiculous amount of damage to spine/hatch. Stalkers are expensive and sentries needless to say, can't kill a hatch till the next MLG in 2012. 2. Generally, 5-5.30 minutes. Some zergs take before the 5th minute, some take later at the 6th. Depends on what they have in mind. 3. Reason why you will want to make sentries from your gateways is because they cost less minerals and help defend against sudden run-by or all-in. You can use your initial zealot to scout/clear watch tower though if you don't expect pressure, nothing wrong with that. I prefer to get sentry/stalker after my first zealot to prevent any scouting overlord. If I were to do the 2 zealot scout, I rather do the FFE into 2 gate zealot pressure, but not with this build. 4. Mass roach usually won't kill you if you have sentries and immortals/blink stalkers. It's very hard to break forcefields + cannons. By the way, if you have excess minerals but you don't know whether zerg has an army large enough to kill you, just expand. If he tries to attack your 3rd and you think you can't defend it, just cancel it. Taking an expo only brings low risk but has high reward, don't hesitate to throw down that nexus! | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On November 22 2011 14:33 MagickMan wrote: Do you ever stream Alej? I do! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160262#1 I don't stream a whole lot, though. I am trying to stream more, but with finals coming up, I'm not sure how much I will be able to. I haven't quite figured out a good schedule to play within but I plan on streaming na/eu ladder in the near future. It will usually be late night EST (12-4am or something like that). | ||
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Teodice
Sweden641 Posts
Again, many thanks! | ||
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StrinterN
Denmark531 Posts
On November 22 2011 13:29 AGIANTSMURF wrote: are you some sort of guide writing TL angel? I am starting to think he is! :D | ||
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Madbanana
Malaysia188 Posts
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iGX
Australia414 Posts
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Dhul
Finland52 Posts
On topic, great thread, I´ve been using a similar style for a few days and its going good, but maybe this is alot better | ||
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PaterPatriae
Germany428 Posts
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