[G] PvZ HerOic FFE - Page 10

On February 02 2012 05:25 Sated wrote:

Depends what they managed to fend off your Zealots with and whether or not they took a third. I'm going to assume that they got a fast third based on what you said.

1) If they used Roaches to deflect the Zealot timing then you're probably need to turtle for a bit and get out either Colossi or Immortals to defend against incoming Roach spam. Immortals are probably more effective since you can get them out faster. Once you've got enough units, push out and take your third base before teching towards High Templar. Sentry/Stalker/Immortal is a pretty good composition against Roaches until you can take your third, just don't forget to get Blink!

2) If they defend using only Zerglings then they're probably going for Mutalisks. If you can use an Observer or Hallucination to confirm it then you should, but if not then you should probably do the 7gate all-in anyway. Zerg can't hope to defend it if they are trying to take a fast third and teching towards Mutalisks. I don't think Infestors would do great against a 7gate either, because they wouldn't have had enough time to get the energy required for chain fungals if your timing is crisp.

EDIT:

Quick question - on a map like Shattered Temple, how on earth are you supposed to scout to see if Zerg has a third or is trying to take one? Is it better to forget about the +1 Zealot pressure and simply move straight into Blink Stalker/Immortal to try and defend against both Roaches and 2base Mutalisk?

On February 27 2012 08:29 Jerubaal wrote:
Great build Alej. :D

Could someone clarify what to do if the zerg stays on 2 bases? I'm guessing that you shouldn't try the zealot pressure in that case. I've been playing against people that go ling/baneling/infestor with in base hatches and fairly late 3rds and I'm not sure this build can put pressure on at any point. Should I just be comfortable with my macro situation and get a fairly quick 3rd?

On March 01 2012 15:52 bankai wrote:
Has anyone been finding that the zealot pressure at 8:30ish is feeling less and less effective?? It seems zergs are much more prepared now that they build just enough roaches/spines to counter this, then they drone like crazy on 3-base and deny my thrid with lots of roaches

Any ideas on some different ways to pressure with this opener?

On March 02 2012 04:31 Salv wrote:


Would also like an answer to this.

On March 01 2012 15:52 bankai wrote:
Has anyone been finding that the zealot pressure at 8:30ish is feeling less and less effective?? It seems zergs are much more prepared now that they build just enough roaches/spines to counter this, then they drone like crazy on 3-base and deny my thrid with lots of roaches

Any ideas on some different ways to pressure with this opener?

On March 02 2012 04:31 Salv wrote:


Would also like an answer to this.

On March 02 2012 08:32 Foks wrote:


Itll never be perfect pressure, but it transitions really well into responsive play, and at the least it forces zerg to stop droning for the time u hit and often disorients them to a certain degree. Or if u feel he has alot , and dont want to pressure based on the read, just threaten with first 2 zealots by securing towers, checking for 3rd, then taking a 3rd at about 9 30-10min off about 2-3 warp in cycles of sentry>zealot>stalker>3rd imo and use your next 4 buildings to wall your 3rd.

On March 05 2012 15:01 bankai wrote:


Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Can I clarify what do you mean by "2-3 warp in cycles of sentry>zealot>stalker>3rd imo"? Do you mean produce a mix of zealot/stalker/sentry/immortal off 4 gateways for 3 warp-in cycles, then instead of placing the 5th/6th Gateway you put down a Nexus at about 9:30mins?

Is it safe to expand that early against a 3-base zerg? If they go mass roach and attack, what is the typical timing that normally hits?

On March 05 2012 15:01 bankai wrote:


Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Can I clarify what do you mean by "2-3 warp in cycles of sentry>zealot>stalker>3rd imo"? Do you mean produce a mix of zealot/stalker/sentry/immortal off 4 gateways for 3 warp-in cycles, then instead of placing the 5th/6th Gateway you put down a Nexus at about 9:30mins?

Is it safe to expand that early against a 3-base zerg? If they go mass roach and attack, what is the typical timing that normally hits?

On March 07 2012 02:15 Alejandrisha wrote:
need to get that 8:30 down to 8:10 or sooner. lately i have not been doing this as much. i will keep 2 probes on each geyser but if my probe is detected, i will put 3 on each per usual and go into SG play. this opener still has its place, but zergs are adapting with an early safe roach warren for 3-4 roaches which shuts this down almost blindly. it can still work but is definitely no longer a staple in my artillery. stay tuned for my next guide (soonish) on the ffe sg-> 2/1 3 base 3 colo push.

On March 07 2012 02:34 Foks wrote:


What I mean is that your first round of warp ins should be sentries if pressure doesnt seem like it will work for whatever reason, bring u to about 6 sentries which is enough w/o yet knowing if hes going muta or roach. Then you can warp in a around of zealots because your gas needs to recooperate. Then a round of stalkers. All this off 4 gates. Then after that u can try to grab a 3rd and use 2-4 gates + cannons to wall it, but usually i play safe and add my robo+twilight, 2 gates in main, and either a dt shrine or another robo moving into a 3rd. Going for the early third is of course risky, and is susceptible to roach spam, but if he went mutas its better u went for the early 3rd. Its a bit of a dice roll unless u get an obs or some kind of scout in there and see whats up early, which is why like an 11 min 3rd is prob the best blind-option. There is no impervious strategy vs zerg mid game because they can do either 2 strategies (mass roach or muta) that will fu ck you up if u dont prepare well for both if not scouted.

I still think this overall strat is viable even w/o the 4 gate pressure. Just the feign of pressure is usually enough to get a desired effect (which is effectively what a 1 stargate play is : ie soft/feigned pressure). There is no PvZ midgame strat that a zerg can't counter very very hard (whether 4g/1 stargate, 2 stargate, 4gate/blink, 4g/robo, etc), so u kind of have to get comfortable with the uncomfortableness of it all .

On March 07 2012 02:50 kcdc wrote:


I agree that the surprise factor of 6 zealots hitting the third at 8:10 is pretty much gone in the current metagame. It can still work if you do it sneaky fast and hit at 7:40, but the timing is a bit of a gamble since you can't guarantee a good trade and you can't retreat.

I really prefer cutting out the 4th gate and throwing in a void ray. This slows the timing down slightly--the fastest you can hit is about 8:00 instead of 7:40, but adding in the void allows you to harass even when roaches are out in time, and it ensures that your zealots will be able to retreat since +1 zealots rock lings and the void will kill any chasing roaches.

Cloud Kingdom is one map where I prefer the 4 gate pressure to the 3 gate+SG pressure. Something about the layout of the map makes it hard to get anything done with the void ray.