He's exceptional for the sole reason that he has devoted massive amounts of time to something that doesn't really make him a good player.
Are you serious? You're throwing out the "good player" moniker for someone that plays this game and wins frequently enough to be in the top 0.01% of North America in this game? What do you define a "good player" as, if not as someone who wins games frequently and consistently?
By your definition as I understand it, my silver-league friend who never does timing pushes and sits in his base macroing up to 200/200 before moving out is "really" the best player in the world.
There's a real difference between someone that sits on his ass to macro a ton and someone that has a reaction based on the opponent's strategy and changes his gameplan and timings accordingly.
I don't see anything wrong in it. Sure it won't help you improve, but I'll let you in on a secret. Everyone in mid to high diamond is trying to get into masters. To put it bluntly, in the last few games I have faced the following strategies: - 6 pool drone all in - 13/13 baneling all in - 2 fact mass hellion run by - Cannon rush - 1/1/1 expand - 3 gate voidray - Cannon rush - Destiny ZvZ All in - Mediocre midgame tank push
Litterally EVERYONE is cheesing. You will face maybe 30% of the players who are actively trying to get better in their mechanics. There is so much shitty play that you have to get through before you finally get to face good players where the game gets exciting and fun before you get to masters, you might aswell cheese your way through it and get it over with.
White ra is to much personality to get effected, and such a warm hart even gratulating the guy haha.
So that makes it wrong to cheese White ra, it's like hitting a puppy thing you just don't do man
OT;
It's kind of amazing it all seems simple but the control you need and bit of luck aswell makes this not possible for all, but thanks for the guide, i do enjoy throwing a cheese in there from time to time.
He's exceptional for the sole reason that he has devoted massive amounts of time to something that doesn't really make him a good player.
Are you serious? You're throwing out the "good player" moniker for someone that plays this game and wins frequently enough to be in the top 0.01% of North America in this game? What do you define a "good player" as, if not as someone who wins games frequently and consistently?
By your definition as I understand it, my silver-league friend who never does timing pushes and sits in his base macroing up to 200/200 before moving out is "really" the best player in the world.
The definition I was using is the one most people use: Good = Skilled. Good ≠ Winning Games. If winning games meant you were good then hackers would be good. You're confusing causation with correlation. Although being good means you usually do well on the ladder, this is not neccessarily the case.
Lots of things make someone a good player. Macro, micro, theory, timings, gamesense etc etc etc I'm sure your silver league friend still has to work on all those things.
Winning does not make you "good". Your silver league friend isn't bad or good because he's in Silver League, just like this guy isn't bad or good because he's in Grandmaster. A few examples: Boxer wasn't good because he won OSLs. Gretzky wasn't good because he was in the NHL. They were good because they were skilled. They could perform well consistenty against opponents who were good as well.
The 6-Pool is the equivalent of the Wrong Ball Trick Play. It might be very effective against an unsuspecting opponent, but only once. Any scrub can do it and beat people better than them, but beating them doesn't make them good. This build just takes advantage of the way the ladder works (BO1).
as both a zerg and a protoss player I admit any kind of early zerg rush , but mainly the 7pool econ build is too strong vs protoss. fun easy win as zerg, a pain in the ass as toss ^^
On November 15 2011 19:36 Sina92 wrote: as both a zerg and a protoss player I admit any kind of early zerg rush , but mainly the 7pool econ build is too strong vs protoss. fun easy win as zerg, a pain in the ass as toss ^^
I still don't see why any good player would lose to early pools.. maybe on Taldarim, but that is the only map you can lose to it and on this map Zerg will have to send 2 Drone scouts, so he either kills you with 6-8 Lings or it almost doesn't matter how much eco you lose due to the rush.
What I mean is, if you want to be safe, just build the forge at the top of your ramp and wall off if you see an early pool. No risk, more fun. I don't understand why Terran would lose to it, given they can repair buildings and one marine is enough to stop the rush completely.
ZvZ is more trickey, still you should have about 25% win rate in higher masters..
Just wanted to say that I don't understand this at all......
did u read the mainpost in the first place? if he paces the forge on top of the ramp he will NEVER be able to take an expand and its a bo loss to everyone playing standart. i really dont see the point in what ur writing but i really want to : (
After long read of this topic I still can't believe majority of people support the op. First of all I never heard of wc3 pro player Habit, and I knew a lot of players. Secondly I can't imagine any positive thing about wasting so much time on this stupid strategy (yes it's stupid). Many players 4 gated to GM but there was like few patches which prevented that. Also 3 rax isn't very strong as it was before few barrack and depot requirement nerfs.So if in next patch spawning pool reqires 10 more seconds to build will be that road to bronze op? I'm just curious. This is nothing but a surprise factor. If 6 pool/7 pool is that viable how come you never won any onlne or offline tournament? Also your manners and offensive GG's toward progamers is showing that you are overconfident without a single reason. I guess few of them would rather slap you instead of trying to counter. You are really rude and that's never good thing. Also you are posting QQ's of 2 players who are miles ahead of you in every aspect of this game. Instead of envying them you are making fun of them like you are the better player. I'm not going into the stupidity of this strategy because as high master player i'm not competent enough to claim that I would hold this off from 1st try (I assume I wouldnt) but I'm just telling you that you should expect flaming because you are doing things that are ruining beauty of this game. When are you already cheesing you should ignore chat and try to be educational as much as this can be (if can be). Wish you all the best.
On November 16 2011 00:29 Nawe wrote: After long read of this topic I still can't believe majority of people support the op. First of all I never heard of wc3 pro player Habit, and I knew a lot of players. Secondly I can't imagine any positive thing about wasting so much time on this stupid strategy (yes it's stupid). Many players 4 gated to GM but there was like few patches which prevented that. Also 3 rax isn't very strong as it was before few barrack and depot requirement nerfs.So if in next patch spawning pool reqires 10 more seconds to build will be that road to bronze op? I'm just curious. This is nothing but a surprise factor. If 6 pool/7 pool is that viable how come you never won any onlne or offline tournament? Also your manners and offensive GG's toward progamers is showing that you are overconfident without a single reason. I guess few of them would rather slap you instead of trying to counter. You are really rude and that's never good thing. Also you are posting QQ's of 2 players who are miles ahead of you in every aspect of this game. Instead of envying them you are making fun of them like you are the better player. I'm not going into the stupidity of this strategy because as high master player i'm not competent enough to claim that I would hold this off from 1st try (I assume I wouldnt) but I'm just telling you that you should expect flaming because you are doing things that are ruining beauty of this game. When are you already cheesing you should ignore chat and try to be educational as much as this can be (if can be). Wish you all the best.
How can a Strat be stupid when its sucessfull? If it will be nerfed hes goona play a other strat but still then he ownes with this! And he was not THAT good in WC3 so you dont have to know him
Like 4gate is stupid and sucessful, like mass hellions is stupid and sucessful and so on. When this game is finally cleaned off cheese and when the skill is only what it matters then threads like this will not exist. Since this is supposed to be multitasking rewarding game, not microing 12 drones to highest league.
Real players want to be promoted into leagues over-time, so that when they are in that league, they can handle the skill level of that league at the same time, thus continuing to improve their mechanics, gameplay etc. These "get to GM as fast as possible" strategies doesn't make anybody better at the game and the amount of really skilled players in Starcraft 2 continues to be something like 2-3%, therefore killing the game.
what i hate, you call someone QQ and start the flamewar with 00:17 [All] FameToFlame: werent u that stupid kid i raped with toss? ... doesnt seem HE starts the flame
also vs beasty ... sorry to tell you but YOU are the way worse flamer every time i see falmewars go on... started by you often and also react childish ... and you really not understand the reactions ?
On November 16 2011 02:16 Nawe wrote: Like 4gate is stupid and sucessful, like mass hellions is stupid and sucessful and so on. When this game is finally cleaned off cheese and when the skill is only what it matters then threads like this will not exist. Since this is supposed to be multitasking rewarding game, not microing 12 drones to highest league.
Who says it's supposed to be what you think it is supposed to be?
Is BW free of cheese? What makes you think SC2 ever will be?
On November 16 2011 02:16 Nawe wrote: Like 4gate is stupid and sucessful, like mass hellions is stupid and sucessful and so on. When this game is finally cleaned off cheese and when the skill is only what it matters then threads like this will not exist. Since this is supposed to be multitasking rewarding game, not microing 12 drones to highest league.
Who says it's supposed to be what you think it is supposed to be?
Is BW free of cheese? What makes you think SC2 ever will be?
Does it make the game unstable, most likely. Cheese is valid from a design standpoint, since it keeps the game interesting and exciting during entire game. But there is a fine line between "good" and "too effective". I am not sure if 6 pool in the second group, but is damn effective for little effort someone needs to put in to get good at it.
Now, the question if Bad_Habit is equal in skill to the other players in GM? The answer is that he is not. Because if you took away this one abusive build, he would not be able compete with them.
EPT
