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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
On November 29 2011 07:15 babo213 wrote: 8 months ago didn't fungal make them stay still for 8 seconds still? 8 months ago the maps didn't favor macro games at all. 8 months ago every zvz was a roach/ling allin. | ||
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Poopfeast
160 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
On December 05 2011 06:26 Unfeared wrote: Kinda stupid how valuable posters get insta upvotes for their guides and when an unknown poster posts a guide, everyone's sceptic about it. How do you think they got the blue background, exactly? Its not like its their birthright lol.. They earned it by posting things that are correct  | ||
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Poopfeast
160 Posts
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elliminist
Japan121 Posts
On December 05 2011 07:18 Unfeared wrote: So? Facts don't change meaning when they come out of someone else's mouth. Why are you trying to bring down another thread into disrepute? Blue posters are an indicator of quality of advice. Would you rather get your lessons from a professor or a drunk down the road who doesn't even own a suit? Even if they both are supposedly 'good' the professor naturally has a minimum standard which they can provide. As for the actual style - this guide is slightly outdated in that it doesn't acknowledge the baneling transition to deal with a hydra tech reaction to mutalisks. A lot of pros have dabbled with it because of the synergy in tech it has from the ling/baneling phase of the build. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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freewareplayer
Germany403 Posts
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On December 05 2011 07:50 Erasme wrote: I'm getting a lot of 'retard' and 'noob'. Even when we both go muta. If your biggest metagame concern is BM then I think you've got it pretty good. Anyway, I'm still a big fan of the infestor transition, but some maps definitely seem to favor going baneling instead and massing mutas. | ||
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Poopfeast
160 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 06 2011 00:59 Unfeared wrote: No? Why are you using a professor or a drunk as a comparisson? My guide covers all of what's posted in blade's guide + more. But like I said, people accept it immediately because of his status. He should've used the search function before creating a slight variant of a guide. Your guide is 1 base mutalisk lol, My build is 2 base mutalisk. You also even state in your guide that its risky to do it more then once in a tournament where as if you wanted this is not meant to be a surprise tactic or a one time use. Rofl just saying your guide covers all what mine posted (which it doesn't). Both our builds are completely different and I have no idea how you can say what you said saying I shouldn't have wrote one because you wrote a 1 base muta build which imo is bad -_-. For anyone curious http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227368 that is his guide which he doesn't even expand until 34 which is completely different then my muta build lol, this whole guide you wrote is way different then mine and every other zerg who goes muta now of days. Should probably read my guide before saying its exactly like yours but with less content. | ||
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Poopfeast
160 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On November 06 2011 09:38 blade55555 wrote: To be honest I don't really know what else to put there. in muta vs muta I just continue making muta and expanding so I can have the superior muta flock. Transitioning can be hard because you are giving up your investment into muta's which if you make even just 8 muta thats 800 gas wasted. So I feel if you go muta, and he goes muta you have to continue as tech changing just gives up map control and lets him take more bases then you. since you will have overmins corrupters are a good way to take over the air control, that they are slower is really unimportant, since the opponent doesn't know where they are. And one corrupter is worth 2 mutas ~ in the air fight. (of course you can't get a giant corrupter ball but adding them in for corruption and tanking is better then muta only) I don't go muta in generall though prefering mass hydras. So i am not to experienced in adding corrupters in a muta vs muta fight. Generally against mass muta i go for a nydus and hydra queen baneling for a timing attack, they will see the nydus but its really hard to stop it from going up somewhere near them, depends how open the map is though. Or just to get another expansion up really far away from your bases (if they are scouting really well for the nydus). The banes are 3 per group to get rid giant baneling balls attacking, since small baneling groups aren't a danger for the hydras. Queen throw down tons of tumors so you have the movement bonus. Basetrade won't work if your drones can be with your army asap, especially since spores are the strongest anti air unit ingame. Well on small maps you don't even need the nydus creep spread is enough hehe. Small amount of mutas just plays in my hands, as every 200 energy queen can save a 2 supply unit up to 4 times. That being said, it seems i am one of few people spreading creep in zvz, just because omg your opponent gets an advantage on creep, while many forget that only you get the vision for your tumors. And then there are also the overlords that can spread creep and retreat. Anyway mutas are a nice way to apply pressure until infestors and hydras are out, so there is enough time to get ahead in bases and then transition. Also since it forces hydras, banelings are actually a nice follow up (Baneling mines are so awesome in zvz !). So thanks for the guide, but maybe research on adding corrupters vs mutas if you find someone on ladder going mutas against you. Adds more effort to your army control for you, but imo its a nice thing to keep the air control. (and if you go broodlords anyway hehe.) | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 07 2011 21:32 Unfeared wrote: Or read my posts, the metagame of ZvZ 8 months ago was different and it wasn't safe to FE like you did. Other than that, I explain the exact same things as you do. The only difference is the FE timing. Um no they are not the same. And again its still way different. Not posting a zvz muta guide because you posted a 1 base muta guide is stupid. Its like maybe I should never have written a zerg vs terran guide because someone else focused on roach/ling/baneling but I do muta/ling/baneling but wait they mentioned muta/ling/baneling a little bit. Sorry thats just stupid to say I shouldn't have wrote this guide because you wrote a 1 base guide that is "the same" when its actually very different lol... You don't even explain the same things I do at all have you read my guide? I don't think so. I explain Muta vs Muta, some transitions you can do and to hold a possible all in. Just can't fathom how you can type that seriously and think it makes you are right. On December 08 2011 00:11 FeyFey wrote: since you will have overmins corrupters are a good way to take over the air control, that they are slower is really unimportant, since the opponent doesn't know where they are. And one corrupter is worth 2 mutas ~ in the air fight. (of course you can't get a giant corrupter ball but adding them in for corruption and tanking is better then muta only) I don't go muta in generall though prefering mass hydras. So i am not to experienced in adding corrupters in a muta vs muta fight. Generally against mass muta i go for a nydus and hydra queen baneling for a timing attack, they will see the nydus but its really hard to stop it from going up somewhere near them, depends how open the map is though. Or just to get another expansion up really far away from your bases (if they are scouting really well for the nydus). The banes are 3 per group to get rid giant baneling balls attacking, since small baneling groups aren't a danger for the hydras. Queen throw down tons of tumors so you have the movement bonus. Basetrade won't work if your drones can be with your army asap, especially since spores are the strongest anti air unit ingame. Well on small maps you don't even need the nydus creep spread is enough hehe. Small amount of mutas just plays in my hands, as every 200 energy queen can save a 2 supply unit up to 4 times. That being said, it seems i am one of few people spreading creep in zvz, just because omg your opponent gets an advantage on creep, while many forget that only you get the vision for your tumors. And then there are also the overlords that can spread creep and retreat. Anyway mutas are a nice way to apply pressure until infestors and hydras are out, so there is enough time to get ahead in bases and then transition. Also since it forces hydras, banelings are actually a nice follow up (Baneling mines are so awesome in zvz !). So thanks for the guide, but maybe research on adding corrupters vs mutas if you find someone on ladder going mutas against you. Adds more effort to your army control for you, but imo its a nice thing to keep the air control. (and if you go broodlords anyway hehe.) Yeah I plan on experimenting with that in a few weeks and will post the results here but it'll be a little while | ||
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Gtoad
United States90 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:41 Gtoad wrote: sPsblade huh.....im jelly you teamates WITH THE MOTHAFUCKIN DEBO! (: I'm actually not on sPs, haven't been with them since February (I am 99.9% sure the team died)  . I have also never talked to debo either. | ||
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DuncanIdaho
United States465 Posts
Personally, I still feel mutas are a tad gimicky, due to their inability to do too much to a large number of roaches, and every muta is 4 more roaches he could have to wreck your base in a counter. Personally, I go speedling into roach into roach burrow-move with +2/+2, and maybe hydras for support and olord speed (to make a quick creep highway to get there faster), with infestors, and in most cases, I win a base race while taking a third and sporeing it up, making use of olord creep pee to build spores simultaneously during the attack which can become a base race. Also, having a decent number of infestors escort my roaches seems to be strong, still in the current state of the meta game, to pick off mutas such that they pose little threat to my incoming tanky army of roaches that just don't die fast enough for a typical muta-ing player's tastes, and of course, if I can, I just walk past the spines at the front to engage gas miners/spire/roach warren/workers/queens/hatches, generally in that order of importance, and I try to snipe the lair if I can, such that I negate the ability to make future overseers, allowing me to burrow in your base. Idk, interesting, but I still think it has flaws, yet indeed, this can allow for a decent amount of safe expanding, for a short while at least. Most importantly, expanding and spines ready for absorbing a counter should be top of the priority list upon moving out with mutas... Good luck, not my style, at least not just yet, but it would be nice to see the meta game shift from a roach centric universe... ~DuncanIdaho | ||
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EPT
Nice guide. When I wrote this guide 8 months ago, everyone said it wasn't viable at all even though I beat top players with it. No balanced patches to anti-air/mutas were made since, except for the insignificant(vs light muta) fungal nerf. 
