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On October 31 2011 22:32 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 22:12 Hider wrote:On October 30 2011 06:28 TangSC wrote:On October 29 2011 11:19 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
These guides are so blatantly dishonest. You're not a master of aggressive play; as someone who has an aggressive playstyle myself, aggressive play involves scouting weaknesses and capitalizing them through attack rather than trying to macro; these are things like constantly checking if the enemy is vulnerable to a counter attack and consistently scouting them to see if they're cutting any corners.
What you're advocating is blind cheese, such as your ling/bling allin vs a 2raxing Terran. You have no strategic or mechanical skill, you simply do allin builds that players haven't seen before or see very rarely, which works great on ladder, especially because players so often cut corners.
You're not doing any high-level play, or even playing Zerg "aggressively". Playing Zerg aggressively is abusing the speed of your units to punish mistakes; you're just doing blatant allin build orders that are easily countered. For instance, you do things like ling bling or roach ling allin players based on what you think they might be doing, whereas if they were to be playing safe or doing something else you would automatically lose.
You're trash, and whether you're grandmaster or not, it means absolutely nothing. You're conning others and writing useless guides (in fact, I believe one of your first "guides" was the usual life coaching positive mindset bullshit).
Anybody reading this guide shouldn't listen to a word of it, except to memorize build orders if you feel like executing an allin and not trying to actually improve your fundamental play. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion of my play style, but in actuality I very, very rarely blind all-in, in fact about 90% of my builds will have a switch point where I switch from attacking units back to drones with some sort of economic follow through and I can show so many of my games where I do damage and macro behind it and end up winning, against top master and grand master players. So unless you , you can't just say I'm advocating "blind cheese." Most of my mid-game pushes require 2-3 fully saturated bases so this is my actual "goal" with any early aggressive: to give me a chance to win the game early OR to be at an advantage when I reach the 2-3base timing attack. I like to think of playing zerg like playin poker: there is no "correct" style. There are successful aggressive players and successful tight players. The advantages of being aggressive are that you pick up a lot of small pots (early game wins) but also, when you pick up a solid hand (macro up) you still know how to play it well. And when you play very aggressive, you'll frequently find yourself in tough, unorthodox situations - which is where experience and game sense come in. And those are the situations I love in SC2 - when neither side really knows what the "correct" response and split-second decision making determines the victor! The difference between poker and sc2 is that you dont have to play a game of probabilities and high risks. You can actually choose between the poker "style" where you often will flip coins on all-ins, or the solid style where you win on better mechanics. I like to avoid risks, and not win because i get a lucky "river" card or whatever. But every man to his own. Just because you play macro doesn't mean you aren't taking risks. In fact, I feel most comfortable when I'm playing my hyper aggressive style I feel like it's when I'm droning that I'm taking the risk. There's so many ways of approaching that game that you're right, it really "to each their own" but I would disagree when you say playing aggressive is risky or lucky.
True, there is a difference between being a greedy macro player and a solid macro player. A solid macro player understands how to play safe, and how to drone correctly. This requires a lot of practice however, and its probably easier (in the short/medium term) to just be the agressive player and not have to learn to play safe. However long term ish, this style wont work, as the solid macro player has learned how to defeat every single one of your allins. However obivously playing perfect solid macro game is difficult as hard and most people aren't near that skill cap yet.
But believe me, every time you skip drones to get an attacking force, your taking risks in a similar way as the guy who overdrones.
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I personally think that it is a nice write up Tang.
Most of the people in here talking shit are the ones that lose to it and get mad, I am assuming.
I don't give a shit if someone wrote up an entire article on how to cheese (which many people have). It's still a way to play the game, and a win is a win.
Deal with it fags.
User was warned for this post
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On November 02 2011 03:39 EmerTehFreek wrote:
I personally think that it is a nice write up Tang.
Most of the people in here talking shit are the ones that lose to it and get mad, I am assuming.
I don't give a shit if someone wrote up an entire article on how to cheese (which many people have). It's still a way to play the game, and a win is a win.
Deal with it fags.
User was warned for this post
Ummm...you're missing the point. No one would care if he wrote "Tangs guide to Cheese". People are mad cause hes pretending its not cheese, and well thought out/flexible build orders. He's doing THIS so he can find students to "coach" (Con) out of money
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No need for anyone to get mad at him for teaching people how to cheese. The world needs preschool teachers too folks. BUT big boys plAY with big boyS and cheesers either look extremely dumb or very lucky vs actual skilled players so if thats the kinda rise they are searching for, let them give themselves little rises with a 10min win :D
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On November 02 2011 03:12 Legion710 wrote:
We're shit talking about Tang because he's a complete douche bag. He is the most BM player I have ever met on bnet (and I'm far from the only one saying this as you can see in this thread), and I think it's absolutely ridiculous that he puts up this smart nice guy facade when he's actually a premiere ass hole.
He also DOES all in every single game. Especially baneling busts. It's kind of a joke.
I'm pretty sure you've already out bm-ed him with this post
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On November 02 2011 04:03 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 03:39 EmerTehFreek wrote:
I personally think that it is a nice write up Tang.
Most of the people in here talking shit are the ones that lose to it and get mad, I am assuming.
I don't give a shit if someone wrote up an entire article on how to cheese (which many people have). It's still a way to play the game, and a win is a win.
Deal with it fags.
User was warned for this post Ummm...you're missing the point. No one would care if he wrote "Tangs guide to Cheese". People are mad cause hes pretending its not cheese, and well thought out/flexible build orders. He's doing THIS so he can find students to "coach" (Con) out of money
There is no way you can reasonably claim he is swindling money out of some poor victims. If people sign up for a lesson from Tang, then they're signing up for a lesson on how to play Tang-style zerg. Same deal if you sign up for a lesson with Idra, you'd expect a lesson on how to play Idra-style zerg.
From what I gather in this thread, you're at least twice as obnoxious as I've ever seen Tang be.
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On November 02 2011 04:18 Eloquious wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:03 Bonkarooni wrote:On November 02 2011 03:39 EmerTehFreek wrote:
I personally think that it is a nice write up Tang.
Most of the people in here talking shit are the ones that lose to it and get mad, I am assuming.
I don't give a shit if someone wrote up an entire article on how to cheese (which many people have). It's still a way to play the game, and a win is a win.
Deal with it fags.
User was warned for this post Ummm...you're missing the point. No one would care if he wrote "Tangs guide to Cheese". People are mad cause hes pretending its not cheese, and well thought out/flexible build orders. He's doing THIS so he can find students to "coach" (Con) out of money There is no way you can reasonably claim he is swindling money out of some poor victims. If people sign up for a lesson from Tang, then they're signing up for a lesson on how to play Tang-style zerg. Same deal if you sign up for a lesson with Idra, you'd expect a lesson on how to play Idra-style zerg. From what I gather in this thread, you're at least twice as obnoxious as I've ever seen Tang be.
no, they're signing up for lessons from a "Grandmaster" zerg when in fact Tang has a sketchy past and has not shown grandmaster understanding of the game, much less play.
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My ZvP is horrible and maybe at diamond level this will work so I can atleast obtain 40%+ win ratio.
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Fantastic videos, definitely a play style i'd like to work with
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Don't worry guys, i have a nice counter lecture in the works to this guide: building 3 bunkers. It'll be a lecture running approximately 5 minutes in length.
All-ins are fine on ladder for getting "ladder points," not for actually improving at the game though. So i'd assume this guide is on just getting some ladder points, with essentially the same end purpose of a guide "to 6 pooling." With roach all-ins, baneling allins, you'll every now and then beat someone way better than yourself, but you're sorta gimping your own learning curve in the process to get an imaginary 10 points on ladder that boosts your ego.
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On November 02 2011 04:30 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:18 Eloquious wrote:On November 02 2011 04:03 Bonkarooni wrote:On November 02 2011 03:39 EmerTehFreek wrote:
I personally think that it is a nice write up Tang.
Most of the people in here talking shit are the ones that lose to it and get mad, I am assuming.
I don't give a shit if someone wrote up an entire article on how to cheese (which many people have). It's still a way to play the game, and a win is a win.
Deal with it fags.
User was warned for this post Ummm...you're missing the point. No one would care if he wrote "Tangs guide to Cheese". People are mad cause hes pretending its not cheese, and well thought out/flexible build orders. He's doing THIS so he can find students to "coach" (Con) out of money There is no way you can reasonably claim he is swindling money out of some poor victims. If people sign up for a lesson from Tang, then they're signing up for a lesson on how to play Tang-style zerg. Same deal if you sign up for a lesson with Idra, you'd expect a lesson on how to play Idra-style zerg. From what I gather in this thread, you're at least twice as obnoxious as I've ever seen Tang be. no, they're signing up for lessons from a "Grandmaster" zerg when in fact Tang has a sketchy past and has not shown grandmaster understanding of the game, much less play.
I have yet to see him in GM I dont know why he posts that in every article topic. The amount of threads are a little obnoxious, interesting write-ups, but they all seem the same. I think he is getting a lot of negative attention because this is the same thing we saw with CombatEX back in broodwar, it may come across as a guide for lowbies but it looks like a thread to just boast and brag (or like stated above find 'students'). Regardless they are interesting to read, I just wish he would combine them all into one thread instead of making a dozen of them ~.~
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On November 02 2011 04:18 Eloquious wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:03 Bonkarooni wrote:On November 02 2011 03:39 EmerTehFreek wrote:
I personally think that it is a nice write up Tang.
Most of the people in here talking shit are the ones that lose to it and get mad, I am assuming.
I don't give a shit if someone wrote up an entire article on how to cheese (which many people have). It's still a way to play the game, and a win is a win.
Deal with it fags.
User was warned for this post Ummm...you're missing the point. No one would care if he wrote "Tangs guide to Cheese". People are mad cause hes pretending its not cheese, and well thought out/flexible build orders. He's doing THIS so he can find students to "coach" (Con) out of money There is no way you can reasonably claim he is swindling money out of some poor victims. If people sign up for a lesson from Tang, then they're signing up for a lesson on how to play Tang-style zerg. Same deal if you sign up for a lesson with Idra, you'd expect a lesson on how to play Idra-style zerg. From what I gather in this thread, you're at least twice as obnoxious as I've ever seen Tang be.
He didn't write Tang's guide to Tang style play. He wrote Tang's guide to aggressive zerg play, and is using these topics to promote his coaching while putting up the facade that he is actually skilled at this game.
Him being bad mannered, the rumors about him being laddered up by pros, etc...they mean absolutely nothing in this argument. What does matter is that he's trying to profit off of the ignorance of others, and abusing the term "aggressive zerg play" because people think it's some sort of unique and innovative idea. His play would more properly be called "blindly aggressive zerg play", "senselessly aggressive zerg play", or even "low level zerg play".
Following his guides will only make you a strategically worse player. He has nothing of value to add to knowledge of the game or the community as a whole.
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On November 02 2011 03:12 Legion710 wrote:
We're shit talking about Tang because he's a complete douche bag. He is the most BM player I have ever met on bnet (and I'm far from the only one saying this as you can see in this thread), and I think it's absolutely ridiculous that he puts up this smart nice guy facade when he's actually a premiere ass hole.
He also DOES all in every single game. Especially baneling busts. It's kind of a joke.
And I'm sure that before he starts getting rude with you guys, you're all rainbows and buttercups.
My intuition tells me that a guy who loves all-in early aggression doesn't earn a whole lot of "gg"s.
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I played with Tang in 2v2, and he was super all-in that game too, but we did beat a good team.
Winning is winning.
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This is not cheese for team games standards 
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I was saying, for 2v2 even he was all-in. :p
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On November 02 2011 06:58 avilo wrote:
Don't worry guys, i have a nice counter lecture in the works to this guide: building 3 bunkers. It'll be a lecture running approximately 5 minutes in length.
All-ins are fine on ladder for getting "ladder points," not for actually improving at the game though. So i'd assume this guide is on just getting some ladder points, with essentially the same end purpose of a guide "to 6 pooling." With roach all-ins, baneling allins, you'll every now and then beat someone way better than yourself, but you're sorta gimping your own learning curve in the process to get an imaginary 10 points on ladder that boosts your ego.
Pretty much this. But I think its good for every player to know how to all in every once in a while.
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On November 02 2011 03:39 EmerTehFreek wrote:
I personally think that it is a nice write up Tang.
Most of the people in here talking shit are the ones that lose to it and get mad, I am assuming.
I don't give a shit if someone wrote up an entire article on how to cheese (which many people have). It's still a way to play the game, and a win is a win.
Deal with it fags.
User was warned for this post
This was a perfectly fine post and opinion until the last line, lol.
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On November 02 2011 08:32 xlava wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 06:58 avilo wrote:
Don't worry guys, i have a nice counter lecture in the works to this guide: building 3 bunkers. It'll be a lecture running approximately 5 minutes in length.
All-ins are fine on ladder for getting "ladder points," not for actually improving at the game though. So i'd assume this guide is on just getting some ladder points, with essentially the same end purpose of a guide "to 6 pooling." With roach all-ins, baneling allins, you'll every now and then beat someone way better than yourself, but you're sorta gimping your own learning curve in the process to get an imaginary 10 points on ladder that boosts your ego.
Pretty much this. But I think its good for every player to know how to all in every once in a while.
yeah, that's true. It is really nice to know some all-ins for a bo3/bo5 series or something. But doing them every game...huge crutch imo.
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On November 02 2011 09:59 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 08:32 xlava wrote:On November 02 2011 06:58 avilo wrote:
Don't worry guys, i have a nice counter lecture in the works to this guide: building 3 bunkers. It'll be a lecture running approximately 5 minutes in length.
All-ins are fine on ladder for getting "ladder points," not for actually improving at the game though. So i'd assume this guide is on just getting some ladder points, with essentially the same end purpose of a guide "to 6 pooling." With roach all-ins, baneling allins, you'll every now and then beat someone way better than yourself, but you're sorta gimping your own learning curve in the process to get an imaginary 10 points on ladder that boosts your ego.
Pretty much this. But I think its good for every player to know how to all in every once in a while. yeah, that's true. It is really nice to know some all-ins for a bo3/bo5 series or something. But doing them every game...huge crutch imo.
Why? If you are a good enough player, you can defend it and take ladder points.
If you can't defend it, then you can learn how to look out for it, and how to defend it, then play him again and collect ladder points.
People spamming the same all-in builds are great for your ladder sessions.
I love it when zerg roach/lings me @ 7:00, free ladder points, barring horrendous miss-controls.
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EPT
