[G] GrandMaster SC2 Lecture: Aggressive Zerg Play - Page 7

On October 28 2011 02:12 vahgar.r24 wrote:
ur bo is not clear on when to get speed. can u post reps of each one pls next to vid

On October 29 2011 06:14 Big J wrote:
Hey, as a Macro (mid-high Master) Zerg, I chose to play a little more aggressive in my ZvTs and ZvZs lately (I'm pretty comfortable playing hardcore macro vs Protoss )
But to be honest, I can't take a lot of information of this thread. All the examples are openings (which I mostly know how to perform) and apart from that there is not a lot of concrete stuff (things like: "if you see your X opponent doing/having ~this when you have ~this, a Y switch/aggression can catch him offguard). So I wanted to ask if you have any midgame information about how to get aggressive outside of standard gameplay like mutaharass ZvT. (f.e. Roach/baneling midgame against terran, like stephano uses against a spread out macroterran, or roach/hydra play in ZvZ to hit a player that is teching)

On October 28 2011 14:57 sSoda wrote:


Tang and VPTang were not gm last season

On October 29 2011 10:29 Terranist wrote:


not only that, it is misleading to call this a grandmaster lecture when he's not even GM and there are several people in this thread that claim he paid real pros to play his account in order to push his coaching website.

On October 29 2011 10:02 TangSC wrote:


I'm working on a ZvT thread on aggressive transitions.

On October 29 2011 10:43 Nemireck wrote:


People claim a lot of things. Without any proof, all it amounts to is white noise.

Besides, you're only in bronze, you've never even made it into silver league, and you paid real pros to get you into a higher a league, but they screwed you over and took your money instead. Now prove I'm wrong, or keep quiet you hypocrite.

See how easy this is? Provide proof that he's lying and/or paid pros to get him into GM, or attack the ideas in his threads. This ad-hominem bullshit has to stop.

On October 29 2011 22:33 solidbebe wrote:


You think people from the community just randomly pick someone and go say he let pros ladder on his account? The fact that people are saying it alone already means that SOMETHING has happened. There wouldn't be any rumors about it if there was no reason to think it was true.

On October 29 2011 22:45 TangSC wrote:


That's the most flawed logic I've ever heard, I've been accused of getting arrested in a McDonalds parking lot for smoking pot too - so even though that never happened, according to your logic since someone accused me, it MUST be true.
I'll state it again, no one has ever played on my accounts and the accusations are 100% fabricated.

On October 29 2011 10:29 Terranist wrote:


not only that, it is misleading to call this a grandmaster lecture when he's not even GM and there are several people in this thread that claim he paid real pros to play his account in order to push his coaching website.

On October 29 2011 22:52 solidbebe wrote:


There is a difference between real life and the SC2 community, in real life people get accused of random stuff all the time so they can get sued for money or whatever. In the sc2 community however if alot of people are saying that for instance someone let pro players ladder on his account, then it is actually very likely that there is a hint of truth in there. All I'm saying.

On October 29 2011 22:33 solidbebe wrote:


You think people from the community just randomly pick someone and go say he let pros ladder on his account? The fact that people are saying it alone already means that SOMETHING has happened. There wouldn't be any rumors about it if there was no reason to think it was true.

On October 29 2011 11:19 sanddbox_sc2 wrote:
These guides are so blatantly dishonest. You're not a master of aggressive play; as someone who has an aggressive playstyle myself, aggressive play involves scouting weaknesses and capitalizing them through attack rather than trying to macro; these are things like constantly checking if the enemy is vulnerable to a counter attack and consistently scouting them to see if they're cutting any corners.

What you're advocating is blind cheese, such as your ling/bling allin vs a 2raxing Terran. You have no strategic or mechanical skill, you simply do allin builds that players haven't seen before or see very rarely, which works great on ladder, especially because players so often cut corners.

You're not doing any high-level play, or even playing Zerg "aggressively". Playing Zerg aggressively is abusing the speed of your units to punish mistakes; you're just doing blatant allin build orders that are easily countered. For instance, you do things like ling bling or roach ling allin players based on what you think they might be doing, whereas if they were to be playing safe or doing something else you would automatically lose.

You're trash, and whether you're grandmaster or not, it means absolutely nothing. You're conning others and writing useless guides (in fact, I believe one of your first "guides" was the usual life coaching positive mindset bullshit).

Anybody reading this guide shouldn't listen to a word of it, except to memorize build orders if you feel like executing an allin and not trying to actually improve your fundamental play.

On October 30 2011 06:28 TangSC wrote:


You're certainly entitled to your own opinion of my play style, but in actuality I very, very rarely blind all-in, in fact about 90% of my builds will have a switch point where I switch from attacking units back to drones with some sort of economic follow through and I can show so many of my games where I do damage and macro behind it and end up winning, against top master and grand master players. So unless you , you can't just say I'm advocating "blind cheese." Most of my mid-game pushes require 2-3 fully saturated bases so this is my actual "goal" with any early aggressive: to give me a chance to win the game early OR to be at an advantage when I reach the 2-3base timing attack.

I like to think of playing zerg like playin poker: there is no "correct" style. There are successful aggressive players and successful tight players. The advantages of being aggressive are that you pick up a lot of small pots (early game wins) but also, when you pick up a solid hand (macro up) you still know how to play it well. And when you play very aggressive, you'll frequently find yourself in tough, unorthodox situations - which is where experience and game sense come in. And those are the situations I love in SC2 - when neither side really knows what the "correct" response and split-second decision making determines the victor!

On October 29 2011 22:33 solidbebe wrote:


You think people from the community just randomly pick someone and go say he let pros ladder on his account? The fact that people are saying it alone already means that SOMETHING has happened. There wouldn't be any rumors about it if there was no reason to think it was true.