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[G] GrandMaster SC2 Lecture: Aggressive Zerg Play

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 20:19:15
October 22 2011 16:50 GMT
#1
Lecture brought to you by UWaterloo CSL
TL Stream Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=286050

Hello everyone and thank you for checking out the University of Waterloo CSL Lecture Series. I was invited by the Waterloo CSL Coordinator, SCMonk (Steve Xian) to give a lecture / presentation on aggressive zerg play.
Here is the link to the lecture(Apologies for language, it is University students afterall):


Blind Cheese versus Aggressive Response
+ Show Spoiler +

While I'm known as a cheesy/aggressive player, it doesn't mean I just blindly open with an all-in build, attack-move my units, and cross my fingers. There's more to it than that, there are subtle bits of information I use to determine whether to attack or macro, and there's more finesse to the execution than just mashing 1 a-move. That's why I'd like to make a distinction between a Blind Cheese and an Aggressive Response.

Putting all your eggs in one basket: A Blind Cheese is a predetermined strategy or build that requires no scouting information to execute. It requires no in-depth strategical thinking and typically has zero economic follow-through.”
Putting some of your eggs in one basket but leaving a few behind to make drones: An Aggressive Response is a decision to commit to a large-scale attack after holding off pressure or as a result of scouting information. Example: A player opens 2rax pressure, I scout it and I go for a ling/bane 1 base attack (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=273534)

Here is a ZvP game casted by BudhaZerg where I show that, despite being insanely aggressive/all-in early on, there's always a way to macro-up behind it (Assuming your aggressive response was correct and you do some damage):

You might ask...Why is Zerg a good race to be aggressive with?

1) Current Metagame
+ Show Spoiler +
Since zerg is known primarily as a macro race, people are cutting more and more corners to ensure strong early game economy. You see more and more players opening forge fast expand, 1gate expand, 1racks expand, hatch first, etc. Even a lot of the units that players use to pressure zerg early on will overextend themselves with slow units like marines, banelings, and zealots – since zerg units are pretty fast, you can take the advantage by counter attacking.


2) Reactive Race / Fast Tech Switches
+ Show Spoiler +
Zerg requires the production of one building to tech switch. While obviously you don't want to spend all your resources producing one of every building, you can still tech switch very quickly if your opponent “hard counters” you. Example: You open speedlings, he goes hellions, you build a warren and go for roaches.


3) Scouting information
+ Show Spoiler +
You need scouting information anyway, so why not be aggressive and do some damage while acquiring the information you need? Macro players will sacrifice overlords, speedlings, upgrade overlord speed, etc. These are all investments that take out of your abilities to be aggressive, so instead I recommend little timing pushes that will give you two types of information: Direct information and Indirect information
Direct Scouting Information: Tells you exactly what your opponent is doing. Things like how many bases your opponent has, what tech structures he's building, and his unit choice are direct scouting information. Example: In ZvZ you scout he's on one base while you took a fast natural. Also, he only has 1 gas. There is enough direct scouting info to determine he's going to all-in you.
Indirect Scouting Information: Gives you bits and pieces of information that lets me make educated guesses on what your opponent is going to do. Using ZvZ to illustrate this concept, imagine two scenarios. In scenario “A”, you open with my mass-ling style ZvZ (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274426) and you notice your opponent is using spinecrawlers and minimal amounts of zerglings/banelings to defend. Since he's playing so defensive, you can infer that he's probably not looking to counterattack you. In scenario “B”, your opponent is building ONLY lings and banelings (or lings and roaches) to defend your attacks. Alarm bells should go off in your head, and you should be aware that he has the capability to counterattack/all-in you soon.


4) The Element of Surprise
+ Show Spoiler +
There's the obvious element of surprise in that your opponent isn't prepared for your attack and dies, but even if they're able to hold your attack they'll be thrown off their game. TheLittleOne says that he performs best in frantic situations where both sides don't really know whats going on. Emotions and momentum play such an important role in SC2 and by throwing your opponent off, he may be unsure of what to do next while you have all the scenarios planned out.


5) Macroing Behind Your Attacks
+ Show Spoiler +
By attacking, you have complete map control. If they're pressured on the back foot, they're going to be scared to move out and expand when they usually would or scared to move out and attack you. This gives you time to drone up and take additional based back at home. Example Video (Apologies: The audio is off-sync) (http://www.youtube.com/user/budhazerg#p/u/4/H3YxQ1VIJxY )


Example Aggressive Build Orders

ZvT Tang's Three Barrel Bust
+ Show Spoiler +
A build designed to add structure and constant aggression to your play:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=280526


ZvT Roach Timing Attack (Not viable vs 2rax)
+ Show Spoiler +
9Overlord
15Hatch
15Pool
18Gas
17Overlord
17 Double Queen / 4xZergling
23-28 Drones
28 Roach Warren
27 Drone
28 2x Overlords
28-42 Roaches
42+ MACRO! Drones, Overlords
52 Start 3rd hatch
Goals: Do damage, secure mapcontrol, and throw your terran opponent off his game while taking a 3rd and macroing.
Here is a replay of DongRaeGu executing this build vs ThorZain:

ZvT Tang's Roach/Ling Timing Attack
+ Show Spoiler +
16Hatch
16Gas
16Pool
18Overlord
Double Queen / 4xLings
Drones to 28
28 Roach Warren (Replace the drone to 28)
28 Zergling Speed
28 2x Overlords
28 Roaches all the way to 44/44
44 2x Overlords
44+ Speedlings (Rallied onto the roaches)
Lead with the roaches to get up into the terran main, if he has a bunker try to surround it before he can repair. Continue reinforcing with lings if you think you can win outright. If not, drone behind your attack and do what damage you can.
Here is an example game using this style as an All-In (Again, the audio is out of sync - Sorry!)


Here is another example of the roach/ling attack off of a gas/pool opening:


ZvZ 2Hatch 2Queen Mass Zergling Style:
+ Show Spoiler +
The build and analysis can be found at:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274426
An example of aggressive ZvZ casted by Katide:


ZvP Roach/Ling Timing Attack
+ Show Spoiler +
Losira popularized this style of play and it is incredibly powerful against 1gate or 3gate expansions because you either win the game outright, deny his expansion, or at the very least kill valuable sentries and probes while securing map control and taking the economic advantage. For build orders, check out Losira games or visit several of the TL threads on this subject:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252865#1
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=217720

Replays

Hyper-Aggressive ZvT : Tang Games
+ Show Spoiler +
Here is an example against xSixPainuser:
http://drop.sc/50243 / http://www.justin.tv/ignproleague/b/298791823 (Game begins 30minutes in)
Here is an example against VTAvilo:
http://drop.sc/51934
Here is an example against GoSuPokebuni:
http://drop.sc/50244
Here is an example against NoxMistakes:
http://drop.sc/50264
Here is an example against Cyrain:
http://drop.sc/51064
Here is an example against KyrO:
http://drop.sc/51070
Here is an example against Sterling:
http://drop.sc/51935

Hyper-Aggressive ZvZ : Tang Games
+ Show Spoiler +
http://drop.sc/54740 (FruitDealer)
http://drop.sc/54765 (ZelNiq)
http://drop.sc/54751 (PPGbubbles)
http://drop.sc/54753 (REQShuffle)
http://drop.sc/55503 (Computer)
http://drop.sc/55496 (YanagiNagi)
http://drop.sc/55485 (Goswer)
http://drop.sc/55482 (sKsDhalism)
http://drop.sc/54766 (ZeroSkill)
http://drop.sc/54760 (Unyb)
http://drop.sc/54759 (TylerDurden)
http://drop.sc/54757 (Sushi)
http://drop.sc/54755 (Secretasnman)
http://drop.sc/54743 (Inflowlooky)
http://drop.sc/54738 (FitzyHere)
http://drop.sc/54737 (FitzyHere2)
http://drop.sc/54732 (Element)
http://drop.sc/54730 (DarkChigo)
http://drop.sc/54727 (clSBellini)
http://drop.sc/54724 (BuBuKitty)
http://drop.sc/54723 (bnYdice)
http://drop.sc/54722 (bnYdice2)
http://drop.sc/54721 (BlackMamba)

Closing Thoughts
+ Show Spoiler +
Please try to keep the replies to this thread as constructive and positive as possible, even if you disagree with the concepts presented. It's much more helpful to provide constructive feedback than it is to be disrespectful of others' ideas. Our goal is to improve and help each other out, not start flame wars. If there is a situation you'd like to be more aggressive in, please reply to this post with your thoughts and problems. I will produce additional aggressive zerg guides and answer as many questions as time allows.

-Tang
Courtesy of www.TangStarcraft.com
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
xdividebyzerox
Profile Joined August 2011
34 Posts
October 22 2011 16:55 GMT
#2
is destinys ling infestor timing attack appropriate to mention?
Vogin
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Czech Republic926 Posts
October 22 2011 16:57 GMT
#3
Finally someone trying to popularize actually playing the game instead of the boring macro wars.
http://scvrush.com - Your Starcraft Home
Pylons
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada54 Posts
October 22 2011 17:07 GMT
#4
On October 23 2011 01:57 Vogin wrote:
Finally someone trying to popularize actually playing the game instead of the boring macro wars.


I CONCUR, BRILLIANT!
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
October 22 2011 17:15 GMT
#5
Thank you for providing a useful insight for the ability of the zerg race to be aggressive.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
October 22 2011 17:17 GMT
#6
Too many people stuck with the mindset that zerg has to br the turtley, reactive race. This guide is a great way to change up the playstyle a little. Cool stuff!
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Roynalf
Profile Joined August 2011
Finland886 Posts
October 22 2011 17:21 GMT
#7
Good guide, every zerg should learn to see opportunities to be aggressive, if you just know as passive macro games your opponents will gona use it against you and cut corners as much as he wants. Good player is the one with diffrent styles and you never know what he might do.
(V) (;,,;) (V) Woopwoopwoopwoop
GTLAllDayEveryDay
Profile Joined September 2011
39 Posts
October 22 2011 17:49 GMT
#8
You're not grandmaster, how is this a Grandmaster SC2 Lecture?
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
October 22 2011 17:50 GMT
#9
saying this for ages
Amaterasu1234
Profile Joined November 2010
United States317 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 17:57:33
October 22 2011 17:53 GMT
#10
Is Jecho's Roach/ling/bling bust guide appropriate to mention? I don't know if it still works or not... but I don't see why not...and it certainly fits the style of aggressive zerg.

------------

Edit: I noticed you only had the roach/ling push vs 1/3 gate expo in zvp. A lot of pro Z's, when they scout 1 gate FE, will mass ling for 1 minute @ 6 minutes then make a huge attack @ 7 minutes while droning behind it. If the toss doesn't have superb forcefields, lings can take out sentries, deny the expansion, but even win the game right there ((high unlikely). This ling attack only works vs 1 gate expo...3 gate has too many forcefields available, leaving a larger margin of error for the toss and his forcefields.
Micket
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2163 Posts
October 22 2011 18:08 GMT
#11
That first Protoss player on Taldarim was playing so weird lol. He must not be used to having to make sentries and having his zealot pressure do no damage.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
October 22 2011 18:12 GMT
#12
this style was really a hot topic when the game came out. Should you 'cheese' to win or should you 'macro' to win?

the cheese side of the argument is saying: i scouted X information and i think Y is an appropriate counter to it so i will use Y

the macro side will start arguing: but that is relying on your enemy to make a mistake but to improve your own skill

tbh, i think its each of his own. Clearly right now the 'macro heavy' zerg are doing much better of in major tournament (nestea idra losira) but it doesnt mean cheesy zerg are not winning (moon won EU tournament, July runner up, Cocoa consistent in Code S) and beside, there are people who use both style well such as DRG or sheth.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
October 22 2011 18:24 GMT
#13
On October 23 2011 02:53 Amaterasu1234 wrote:


Edit: I noticed you only had the roach/ling push vs 1/3 gate expo in zvp. A lot of pro Z's, when they scout 1 gate FE, will mass ling for 1 minute @ 6 minutes then make a huge attack @ 7 minutes while droning behind it. If the toss doesn't have superb forcefields, lings can take out sentries, deny the expansion, but even win the game right there ((high unlikely). This ling attack only works vs 1 gate expo...3 gate has too many forcefields available, leaving a larger margin of error for the toss and his forcefields.


Yeah I've seen Sheth do this quite a lot, it's very strong.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
CrY.
Profile Joined July 2010
Japan97 Posts
October 22 2011 20:24 GMT
#14
i dont know if i have ever seen tang play a game past 15 minutes xD to each his own i say!
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
October 22 2011 20:32 GMT
#15
On October 23 2011 05:24 CrY. wrote:
i dont know if i have ever seen tang play a game past 15 minutes xD to each his own i say!


If it makes it to 15 minutes, I'm usually taking my natural. JK lol
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
SaLaYa
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States363 Posts
October 22 2011 20:59 GMT
#16
This is great! Really enjoyed it.
Cornell 2014 // eYe_am_SaSsY
HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
October 22 2011 21:41 GMT
#17
I'm pretty sure TangSC is the only guy on my blocked list. He's such a spammer.
yo
ZaloMonkada
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States86 Posts
October 22 2011 22:07 GMT
#18
If you want to learn to be aggressive the right way, go watch some losira or july games lol
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
October 22 2011 22:14 GMT
#19
No offense to this guy, but I really get the idea you're putting out all these guides just for bragging, your previous guides were both about old builds that everyone knew already and that you decided would make a good excuse to make a thread, and this 'guide'. What does it say besides that zerg should be aggressive ( which has been a seconday style for a long time too, and on which alot of guides have been reading such as Axa's start the aggression guide ), that you're a grandmasters player and a few aggressive builds that are already pretty known and some of which are used by pro's ( like your roach ling attack vs terran, sen just did that a few times at blizzcon vs MVP and select, people could just load up some replays from sen and learn them themselves).
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 22:27:39
October 22 2011 22:24 GMT
#20
On October 23 2011 07:14 solidbebe wrote:
like your roach ling attack vs terran, sen just did that a few times at blizzcon vs MVP and select, people could just load up some replays from sen and learn them themselves).


Sen is awesome, everyone should watch sen/nestea/julyzerg/losira/DRG games if they want to play aggressive zerg.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
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