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Bonkarooni
United States383 Posts
On October 25 2011 07:31 CP` wrote: Have you even tried looking at sc2ranks. You can clearly see he was GM season 2. Yeah, the season he paid people to play on his account. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On October 24 2011 22:01 TangSC wrote: I disagree actually, I've had so many games where I've done an attack and expanded behind it. It's standard for other races and equally viable for zerg. Watch Dong Rae Gu against ThorZain or DRG against Strelok: Watch how early his attacks come, yet how many drones he's able to make and the timing of his 3rd base. Well yeh, but if the opposing player defends withut taking damage (having early bunker or 2 - thats onyl very little indirect damage), and makes a good counter attack your in a lot of trouble if you droned. LIke watch MVP vs DRG (a gsl game a month back), drg actually did a lot of dmg as MVP bunker was to late, but he could not defend the counter marine/tank attack. MVP geenralyl though will make these kind of timings that not a lot of terran players will, and it just punishes the droning zerg. So against most terran players, sure you can do these allinish attacks, but your still weak if A) The terran defend efficiently, B) has a build where he can counter you - like no eraly 3rd command center or mech play, and C) Attacks you while your droning. Most of the time as zerg you cant spot whether the terran is doing something greedy, like double expanding of reactored hellions, or going for 4 hellions, into marine/tank push on 2 bases without any oddson barracks ( like mvp does). Hence you simply cant react efficiently, and this is why its allinish. However just because its allinish doesn't mean its a bad build. Its sure good to vary op your play with these kind of attacks once a while, and it isn't veyr often you wil have a build order loss with a roache response attack vs reactor hellion, but once in a while you will, and long-term its definitely better to have a solid strategy that doesn't rely on opponents not doing a certain build, but rely on pure mechanics. | ||
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CP`
Canada38 Posts
On October 26 2011 01:41 Bonkarooni wrote: Yeah, the season he paid people to play on his account. Would love to see some proof. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
So would I. I'm going to start live streaming my games with commentary this season so this type of accusation will be proven false. | ||
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Bonkarooni
United States383 Posts
On October 26 2011 02:59 TangSC wrote: So would I. I'm going to start live streaming my games with commentary this season so this type of accusation will be proven false. When you get into GM again, possibly. Sitting at 1450 masters at NA....yeah, I believe your cheese gets you to about that level | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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laLAlA[uC]
Canada963 Posts
On October 26 2011 03:29 Bonkarooni wrote: When you get into GM again, possibly. Sitting at 1450 masters at NA....yeah, I believe your cheese gets you to about that level I don't understand where you get off making these sort of blatant accusations without any proof. | ||
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Duprix
Netherlands17 Posts
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Wartortle
Australia504 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On October 26 2011 03:34 TangSC wrote: 1450? I think I was at about 1600 with bonus pool on Tang. And yes, I will take GM this season. Easiest way is to post every game in a rep pack of your climb to GM, and then keeping it for a week or so. People can compare hotkeys, apm, and tactics and see the other play--- I mean, compare to make sure it's you. | ||
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Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
On October 24 2011 12:26 phiinix wrote: Don't forget his try hard funny warnings. You would think that considering how much time you put into your guide you would have the decency to remove the clip that drops the N-word. Maybe you're not aware of it, but the N word is still quite offense (not to be so technical but -er is much much worse than -a) and made me cringe. Regardless of the depth of the word, it's pretty unprofessional to have any blatantly clear curse word thrown in EIGHT seconds into the video. - -" Touching on noxn's jab at your content, I have yet to see any real depth into your posts. They consist to me of first and foremost shameless plugging, useless spoilers, and a bunch of build orders, without any real explanation. It seems to me like you've just taken a vod of an aggressive zerg game, copied the build order, and popped it into your thread. Why do they work? When would a bad time to execute the build? You claim But you don't explain how in your "guide" you're blindly making units at food counts anyway, where's the "response" element in that? I sort of have to agree here with this guy's response. If you want to know the difference between 'blind cheese' and 'aggressive responses', aggressive responses are just reactional like for instance if you see a protoss player try to cut a corner and off of a 1 gate expand, take their nexus slightly earlier than normal, you can make a round of zerglings (like 16 lings) and by the time speed finishes, punish him for trying to cut that corner. A blind cheese is just a build that has been practiced to 'blindly counter' another build, usually being the standard build. HOpefully the other player plays a normal macro game, and you blindly make units and pretty much hope that you do enough damage to get ahead such as a roach/ling attack with like idk 22ish drones. Start ling speed, roach warren when ling speed is like 1/3 done and roach warren will be done when ling speed is done and you should have around 7 roaches followed up by rounds of speedlings until you do enough damage to start droning up again. Thats blind because you don't know if its going to work or not. Actually that roach/ling was a bad example because you can certainly choose to do it as soon as you see a reaper expand or hellion expand. It's not something that is pre-determined before the game. Something like a 14/14 speedling "fake expo", keep drones on gas and get a fast lair and basically nydus worm full of speedlings into the protoss base. Its becoming more popular in the gsl and the most common follow up is hydralisks off of 2 bases. I believe this one zerg in wcg prelims does it, i forget his name but i think he does it a couple times with pretty good success. | ||
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laLAlA[uC]
Canada963 Posts
On October 26 2011 08:51 iAmJeffReY wrote: Easiest way is to post every game in a rep pack of your climb to GM, and then keeping it for a week or so. People can compare hotkeys, apm, and tactics and see the other play--- I mean, compare to make sure it's you. So you're demanding proof to disprove an accusation that you have no proof of? | ||
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CP`
Canada38 Posts
On October 26 2011 03:29 Bonkarooni wrote: When you get into GM again, possibly. Sitting at 1450 masters at NA....yeah, I believe your cheese gets you to about that level Its a good thing you're not dodging the question of showing proof much like how you called Tang out for not answering why he isn't in GM...... | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On October 23 2011 06:41 HelloSon wrote: I'm pretty sure TangSC is the only guy on my blocked list. He's such a spammer. Same. He isnt a GM, so why is this a GM lecture? | ||
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WilliamDecker
Canada43 Posts
Watched the videos and enjoyed the play. I wanted to get some build practice in so I decided to build them using http://www.starcrafttools.net. Here are the YABOT builds codes that you can put into YABOT using the YABOT Build Editor. ZvT Roach/Ling Timing Attack + Show Spoiler + 100 [i] ZvT Roach/Ling Timing Attack | 8 | VPTang | Roach Ling Timing Attack in ZvT [/i] [s] 9 100 0 46 1 1 31 0 | 15 300 0 129 1 0 36 0 | 15 25 0 137 1 0 35 0 | 15 200 0 162 1 0 41 0 | 18 100 0 211 1 1 31 0 | 20 150 0 236 1 1 32 0 | 22 150 0 236 1 1 32 0 | 27 150 0 263 1 0 40 0 | 28 100 100 275 1 3 42 0 | 28 100 0 282 1 1 31 0 | 28 100 0 290 1 1 31 0 | 30 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 32 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 34 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 36 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 38 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 40 75 25 326 1 1 33 0 | 42 75 25 326 1 1 33 0 | 44 75 25 330 1 1 33 0 | 44 100 0 337 1 1 31 0 | 44 100 0 344 1 1 31 0 | 45 50 0 -1 1 1 35 0 [/s] ZvT Roach Timing Attack + Show Spoiler + 100 [i] ZvT Roach Timing Attack | 8 | VPTang | Roach Timing Attack [/i] [s] 9 100 0 46 1 1 31 0 | 14 300 0 124 1 0 36 0 | 14 200 0 132 1 0 41 0 | 17 25 0 181 1 0 35 0 | 7 100 0 1 1 1 31 0 | 8 150 0 16 1 1 32 0 | 9 150 0 27 1 1 32 0 | 9 50 0 46 1 1 35 0 | 10 50 0 54 1 1 35 0 | 14 150 0 124 1 0 40 0 | 14 100 0 132 1 1 31 0 | 15 100 0 137 1 1 31 0 | 16 75 25 151 1 1 33 0 | 17 75 25 166 1 1 33 0 | 18 75 25 181 1 1 33 0 | 7 75 25 1 1 1 33 0 | 8 75 25 16 1 1 33 0 | 9 75 25 27 1 1 33 0 | 9 75 25 46 1 1 33 0 | 12 100 0 71 1 1 31 0 | 17 300 0 -1 1 0 36 0 [/s] ZvP 14/14Speedling 20Hatchery + Show Spoiler + 100 [i] ZvP 14/14Speedling 20Hatchery | 9 | VPTang | 14/14 Speedling Expand into Roach/Ling Push [/i] [s] 9 100 0 46 1 1 31 0 | 13 25 0 91 1 0 35 0 | 13 200 0 118 1 0 41 0 | 15 100 0 151 1 1 31 0 | 17 150 0 178 1 1 32 0 | 18 50 0 178 1 1 35 0 | 19 50 0 181 1 1 35 0 | 7 100 100 1 1 3 42 0 | 8 300 0 37 1 0 36 0 | 10 150 0 54 1 1 32 0 | 11 100 0 63 1 1 31 0 | 14 150 0 146 1 0 40 0 | 18 100 0 179 1 1 31 0 | 10 100 0 -1 1 1 31 0 [/s] ZvZ Speedling Expand into 2base Massling Code not working, will update later. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On October 26 2011 19:15 WilliamDecker wrote: Hi Tang, Watched the videos and enjoyed the play. I wanted to get some build practice in so I decided to build them using http://www.starcrafttools.net. Here are the YABOT builds codes that you can put into YABOT using the YABOT Build Editor. ZvT Roach/Ling Timing Attack + Show Spoiler + 100 [i] ZvT Roach/Ling Timing Attack | 8 | VPTang | Roach Ling Timing Attack in ZvT [/i] [s] 9 100 0 46 1 1 31 0 | 15 300 0 129 1 0 36 0 | 15 25 0 137 1 0 35 0 | 15 200 0 162 1 0 41 0 | 18 100 0 211 1 1 31 0 | 20 150 0 236 1 1 32 0 | 22 150 0 236 1 1 32 0 | 27 150 0 263 1 0 40 0 | 28 100 100 275 1 3 42 0 | 28 100 0 282 1 1 31 0 | 28 100 0 290 1 1 31 0 | 30 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 32 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 34 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 36 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 38 75 25 323 1 1 33 0 | 40 75 25 326 1 1 33 0 | 42 75 25 326 1 1 33 0 | 44 75 25 330 1 1 33 0 | 44 100 0 337 1 1 31 0 | 44 100 0 344 1 1 31 0 | 45 50 0 -1 1 1 35 0 [/s] ZvT Roach Timing Attack + Show Spoiler + 100 [i] ZvT Roach Timing Attack | 8 | VPTang | Roach Timing Attack [/i] [s] 9 100 0 46 1 1 31 0 | 14 300 0 124 1 0 36 0 | 14 200 0 132 1 0 41 0 | 17 25 0 181 1 0 35 0 | 7 100 0 1 1 1 31 0 | 8 150 0 16 1 1 32 0 | 9 150 0 27 1 1 32 0 | 9 50 0 46 1 1 35 0 | 10 50 0 54 1 1 35 0 | 14 150 0 124 1 0 40 0 | 14 100 0 132 1 1 31 0 | 15 100 0 137 1 1 31 0 | 16 75 25 151 1 1 33 0 | 17 75 25 166 1 1 33 0 | 18 75 25 181 1 1 33 0 | 7 75 25 1 1 1 33 0 | 8 75 25 16 1 1 33 0 | 9 75 25 27 1 1 33 0 | 9 75 25 46 1 1 33 0 | 12 100 0 71 1 1 31 0 | 17 300 0 -1 1 0 36 0 [/s] ZvP 14/14Speedling 20Hatchery + Show Spoiler + 100 [i] ZvP 14/14Speedling 20Hatchery | 9 | VPTang | 14/14 Speedling Expand into Roach/Ling Push [/i] [s] 9 100 0 46 1 1 31 0 | 13 25 0 91 1 0 35 0 | 13 200 0 118 1 0 41 0 | 15 100 0 151 1 1 31 0 | 17 150 0 178 1 1 32 0 | 18 50 0 178 1 1 35 0 | 19 50 0 181 1 1 35 0 | 7 100 100 1 1 3 42 0 | 8 300 0 37 1 0 36 0 | 10 150 0 54 1 1 32 0 | 11 100 0 63 1 1 31 0 | 14 150 0 146 1 0 40 0 | 18 100 0 179 1 1 31 0 | 10 100 0 -1 1 1 31 0 [/s] ZvZ Speedling Expand into 2base Massling Code not working, will update later. Thanks for taking the time to do this, William  . If your research finds anything interesting I haven't mentioned please let me know! | ||
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WilliamDecker
Canada43 Posts
Thanks for taking the time to do this, William . If your research finds anything interesting I haven't mentioned please let me know!Actually it did slightly. http://www.starcrafttools.net/viewer/index?buildId=d60afefdd8abc5b5700a2c7203aeda7744836733 Even after inputting the build you have for the "ZvT Tang's Roach/Ling Timing Attack" it lists that you should start your Hatch at 15, not 16. Try it out in YABOT and see what it feels like. I did the build and it felt fantastic. I was slightly off predicted times due to my drone gathering at the beginning being ~2 seconds slow because I can't select the hatch fast enough and get my guys on minerals, and I think it takes into account optimal build. It may be something to visit to see if it's infact the optimal build order for this type of build. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On October 27 2011 05:42 WilliamDecker wrote: Actually it did slightly. http://www.starcrafttools.net/viewer/index?buildId=d60afefdd8abc5b5700a2c7203aeda7744836733 Even after inputting the build you have for the "ZvT Tang's Roach/Ling Timing Attack" it lists that you should start your Hatch at 15, not 16. Try it out in YABOT and see what it feels like. I did the build and it felt fantastic. I was slightly off predicted times due to my drone gathering at the beginning being ~2 seconds slow because I can't select the hatch fast enough and get my guys on minerals, and I think it takes into account optimal build. It may be something to visit to see if it's infact the optimal build order for this type of build. I agree I've actually been doing 15 hatch, 16gas 15 pool 17 overlord after observing DRG games. | ||
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