EPT[G] GrandMaster SC2 Lecture: Aggressive Zerg Play - Page 14
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Rhythm.102
United States56 Posts
| ||
|
Ralethon
United States141 Posts
On October 23 2011 07:14 solidbebe wrote: No offense to this guy, but I really get the idea you're putting out all these guides just for bragging, your previous guides were both about old builds that everyone knew already and that you decided would make a good excuse to make a thread, and this 'guide'. What does it say besides that zerg should be aggressive ( which has been a seconday style for a long time too, and on which alot of guides have been reading such as Axa's start the aggression guide ), that you're a grandmasters player and a few aggressive builds that are already pretty known and some of which are used by pro's ( like your roach ling attack vs terran, sen just did that a few times at blizzcon vs MVP and select, people could just load up some replays from sen and learn them themselves). I agree furthermore these are just ling all ins beating players who cut corners (like skipping banes.) | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:06 Ralethon wrote: I agree furthermore these are just ling all ins beating players who cut corners (like skipping banes.) Untrue, my builds perform well against defensive players as long as your execution is strong. Please review the replays and note the amount of times my opponents open defensive banelings/spine and still lose to constant ling aggression. | ||
|
DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:10 TangSC wrote: Untrue, my builds perform well against defensive players as long as your execution is strong. I agree with Ralethon and solidbebe on this one. If people want to watch standard aggression play they could just load up some replays from pro players and learn themselves. This thread could have been dead a couple weeks ago, all I am seeing now i you bumping it with posts bragging about yourself. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:15 DanceSC wrote: I agree with Ralethon and solidbebe on this one. If people want to watch standard aggression play they could just load up some replays from pro players and learn themselves. This thread could have been dead a couple weeks ago, all I am seeing now i you bumping it with posts bragging about yourself. I don't agree, watching pro games is not the best way to learn SC2 for lower level players. | ||
|
iLike413
Canada100 Posts
| ||
|
Rhythm.102
United States56 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:32 TangSC wrote: I don't agree, watching pro games is not the best way to learn SC2 for lower level players. Speak for yourself, I've learned more about zerg watching Nestea and Losira then I have reading about how to break bunkers with banelings, or mass zerglings. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
| ||
|
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:59 TangSC wrote: What I mean is I don't think it's ideal for players who can't macro 4-5 bases to have the mindset that they have to play a late-game zerg. It's better to work from the bottom up, 1base timings attacks, 2 base timing attacks, etc. If all they do is 1 base all ins, 2 base all ins they won't improve at all that way because if it fails they are guaranteed to lose... It is better in the long run for that lower level player to learn how to macro rather then do 1 base ling bane all in every game or 2 base make 3 drones and then all in. That will not help them at all except in the micro portion of the early game. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:55 blade55555 wrote: If all they do is 1 base all ins, 2 base all ins they won't improve at all that way because if it fails they are guaranteed to lose... It is better in the long run for that lower level player to learn how to macro rather then do 1 base ling bane all in every game or 2 base make 3 drones and then all in. That will not help them at all except in the micro portion of the early game. I understand that point of view, but I disagree. I think timing attacks with X units with Y upgrades at Z time in the game is the way to improve timings, multitasking, micro, and macro. It's not that every game has to be an all-in, in fact I almost always encourage 2-3 separate well-planned timing attacks to add structure to your play. | ||
|
Sterling
United States182 Posts
all ins are bad | ||
|
Aletheia27
United States267 Posts
I know we've had our disagreements before, and I think it is somewhat shameless how much you promote yourself, but I think you should have some defense against everyone's imo unwarrented criticism of your contributions, which show a very different side of zerg play. In another light, tang is the anti-idra. Or the style Idra used to play which revolved purely on macro. But even then, people complained that Idra's style was bad in the sense that it shouldn't work if the opponent scouts well and all-ins him...or that he was open to just die to blind all-ins. Similarly, Tang's style will lose to someone who perfectly scouts him and he'll lose to people who blind counter whatever style he's going for. But, that isn't to say the way he's approaching the game is without merit. It's a style just like macro. It requires scouting, reacting, good mechanics, and proper decision making- which includes calculated risks. (just like anytime zerg makes drones over units) So yeah, I use his style, but I think everyone is just reacting more to the somewhat shameless self promotion. However, I don't think that should detract from the content of the post. Or rather blind people to the content. | ||
|
sSoda
United States95 Posts
On November 16 2011 18:48 Aletheia27 wrote: while my style is very different in the sense that I prefer a "silent pressure" macro oriented zerg, I think for everyone who is saying that you're just all-inning, that's somewhat true. It's all in, in the sense that if it fails, you lose. But in the sense that it is a "bad" move or a choice that will make you lose because people can hard counter it, they're missing the point. You're executing that all-in based on a read. Talk to anyone on slayers, their game revolves around timing attacks and all-ins. I know we've had our disagreements before, and I think it is somewhat shameless how much you promote yourself, but I think you should have some defense against everyone's imo unwarrented criticism of your contributions, which show a very different side of zerg play. In another light, tang is the anti-idra. Or the style Idra used to play which revolved purely on macro. But even then, people complained that Idra's style was bad in the sense that it shouldn't work if the opponent scouts well and all-ins him...or that he was open to just die to blind all-ins. Similarly, Tang's style will lose to someone who perfectly scouts him and he'll lose to people who blind counter whatever style he's going for. But, that isn't to say the way he's approaching the game is without merit. It's a style just like macro. It requires scouting, reacting, good mechanics, and proper decision making- which includes calculated risks. (just like anytime zerg makes drones over units) So yeah, I use his style, but I think everyone is just reacting more to the somewhat shameless self promotion. However, I don't think that should detract from the content of the post. Or rather blind people to the content. This post is completely wrong. All inning blindly and doing a timing attack based off scouting is two completely different things. Most of the people hating on Tang are doing so because he blind all ins more often than not. Not only that, but he spams chat channels and markets himself as a GM when he clearly isn't. Slayers players do builds to snipe their opponents in a tournament setting. They do them because they either know the other players weakness or its something they wouldn't expect. Tang all ins on ladder against random opponents, hence "coin flipping." Lastly, Tang is not the anit-idra. Idra doesn't coin flip. If you watch Idra's stream, he tries to play as safe as possible because he hates losing to cheese. The opposite to Tang would be someone who just blindly expands and drones all day without scouting. From what I've seen, Tang's builds only revolve around blind timings and getting lucky. | ||
|
ZiegFeld
351 Posts
Monk! It's Sieg. Respect! Damn it I knew I should've accepted that Laurier offer... | ||
|
JediGamer
United States656 Posts
Ironically he disses the other guy talking about being GM. He is NOT GRANDMASTER nor even close. There was also a rumor he paid someone to level his account, doesn't matter because he couldn't sustain it. Because he plays a limited style he really rips off terran and protoss players (I am a coach and have heard from new students who received Tangs coaching). All this "lecture" is -was you casting a replay where you ling/roach busted someone. You could just watch some DarkForce replays to see crisp timings or other aggressive zergs, but you chose to host your own. And no this is not a troll nor do I have particular beef with Tang, but part of me doesn't like to know a coach taking advantage of people is out there. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On November 16 2011 23:30 JediGamer wrote: Why is this thread still up? I just assumed it was closed. It is a blatant advertisement for his coaching and website, without paying teamliquid. Ironically he disses the other guy talking about being GM. He is NOT GRANDMASTER nor even close. There was also a rumor he paid someone to level his account, doesn't matter because he couldn't sustain it. Because he plays a limited style he really rips off terran and protoss players (I am a coach and have heard from new students who received Tangs coaching). All this "lecture" is -was you casting a replay where you ling/roach busted someone. You could just watch some DarkForce replays to see crisp timings or other aggressive zergs, but you chose to host your own. And no this is not a troll nor do I have particular beef with Tang, but part of me doesn't like to know a coach taking advantage of people is out there. I've made grandmaster twice and I'm confident in my skills as a player and as a coach. | ||
|
Bad_Habit
Germany243 Posts
| ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On November 17 2011 01:16 Bad_Habit wrote: ur not gm, just using it to advertise your crap, same as u spam every fucking public room in the battlenet. god im getting so angry on ppl like you. bregging with wrong information etc I don't spam, I contribute - if I'm posting something in a chat channel, I stand by it - I'm likely promoting a video or article that will benefit a lot of players who are looking to improve. | ||
|
JediGamer
United States656 Posts
How about a link to one of your zerg lessons. I'd really like to see what you actually do within a lesson, I hear you tell your students not to record so IMO it seems like your hiding something, whereas incontrol and destiny and desrow sometimes stream lessons, you avoid it. It is pretty tell-tale imo you are taking advantage of people. Does teamliquid realize within the first 5 seconds of that video some guys just says "nigger". Quote from video "you can be assured I'll be grandmaster season 4 even though i got dropped season 3". It is season 4, no GM. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
| ||
| ||
