EPTA range nerf for MM (but IMO give them +2 range in bunkers so expos can be defended vs early pressure) as well as a marauder health nerf coupled with a supply buff to Tanks (2 instead of 3) and some sort of changed/new unit that can support tanks better would make PvT better IMO.
[D] Terran, TvP and game-design - Page 7
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
A range nerf for MM (but IMO give them +2 range in bunkers so expos can be defended vs early pressure) as well as a marauder health nerf coupled with a supply buff to Tanks (2 instead of 3) and some sort of changed/new unit that can support tanks better would make PvT better IMO. | ||
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razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
On October 01 2011 22:23 Connor987 wrote: if you honestly think terran is underpowered in any way against protoss, you are seriously mistaken. 7 terran 1 protoss (i think) in code S shows this noone was talking about anything being underpowered ffs | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 01 2011 22:12 Badfatpanda wrote: Wait so you play a game with 3 races and don't want each race to have more than 1 viable option per matchup? And then you complain about a strat that is used by very few people? I love it when Z goes infestor ling, or July style something other than ling bling because it adds variety into my play sessions which is a good thing. Your argument is similar to complaining about getting AA if a Toss goes void ray....wtf. You adapt to fit your opponent's strategy every game, it's part of SC2... no, I do like it when races have different options in each Match-Up. I just don't like it, if one race can choose any composition while the other race has to wait for that choice and then choose it's countercomposition. Also I wouldn't say I complain about Mech in TvZ... If Terran doesn't want to have a chance against an opponent who finds out what you're doing, it's their choice to lose... But I don't like how this forces zerg to play non-standard compositions. There is a huge difference between playing Mech vs Zerg and zerg being able to choose infestor/ling or offensive muta/ling/bling (july style) or even roach/ling/bling instead of defensive muta/ling/bling. Marine/Tank/Medivac deals with all of those compositions. You might want to add more tanks, earlier ghosts, some marauders, but basically you can still play M/M/T. Comparing this to AntiAir vs Protoss is just silly. You can still go for the same composition you wanted before, but you will have to add some antiair first. (it's not like vs Mech, when you're banelings suddenly become useless - and I'm not talking about clumping all your Thors and being the first to experience what happens if you blow up 100supply of banelings on 60supply of Thors, after not pushing the strongest macro zerg in the world for something like 16mins... numbers might be wrong, but I guess you know what I mean) And to add to this, I would like to hear your opinion on PvT compositions... Gateway into Colossus into Templar/Archon (or the other way round)... I really don't see a lot of variety that Protoss can go for against Terran either. Yeah you can choose between colossi and templar, or die to marines, but that's basically it. (no matter if you go double upgrades, charge, blink, dt's, void rays etc... first. If you want a macro game as protoss vs Terran you have to go gateway into splash) | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
Do i have to push with my forces? Do i have to camp now and take another base? Do i have to push is natural or his 3rd? If you fail 1 (or max 2) times you are dead, there is no comeback. Ive got mixed success with this, your ground army can be invincible at a point, but the carriers are good againts mech, they are a very viable units (not againts MMM) againts mech. But if you do it properly it can be very strong, and if you can transition from bio style (for pressuring, and make the toss believe that it will be standard bio play) in the early game to mech, without scouted (or perfectly scouted) it can be very strong. But obviously Koreans know best, when it comes to working. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 01 2011 22:00 Pulimuli wrote: TvP was such an amazing MU in BW, i hate it in sc2 because most people go Bio and it is SO boring to watch marine+marauder+medivac+ghost every single time. Because in every other unit comp, it's a free win for the Protoss? Do you even try them out in the unit tester? Any sky terran build is auto lose against mass blink stalker + few HTs for feedback. Marine/tank? Proven fail in most tournaments. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
That being said, it does frustrate me how boring TvP in SC2 is compared to TvP in BW(heck i rolled terran big part due to TvP in BW). I'm guessing Blizzard wanted to please BW tosses who were tired of getting slaughtered by tanks, so they gave all their units abilities to counter tanks and a design(warpin) which kind of makes tanks strong point, the position, diminished. I feel the issue isn't really that there's so little micro in TvP, it's rather that in a macro game, the only really viable unit combo is MMM+V+G. Sure you *can* go another combo, but for the most part it's either gimmicky(as in hope the opponent doesn't know how to react) or just simply handicapping yourself. Also I feel in general that toss has aoe availeble to them way to late, compared to how strong the rine can be. | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
As PredY said, TvP doesnt feel like a terran matchup at all and its quite depressing when TvZ and TvT are so much fun. TvP makes you NOT want to play terran, where in BW it actually made me switch to terran because the matchup was so epic | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On October 02 2011 01:10 Pulimuli wrote: I really wish blizz would make some changes to TvP, either by patching WoL or adding/modifying units in HotS. As PredY said, TvP doesnt feel like a terran matchup at all and its quite depressing when TvZ and TvT are so much fun. TvP makes you NOT want to play terran, where in BW it actually made me switch to terran because the matchup was so epic Its not so much that Mech is bad. Its that in a 200 vs 200 scenario the Protoss army decimates Mech. Not only does it beat it in fire power, but in mobility, and reinforcement. I played a game where Toss went Blink Collosi and would pick off an expansion in like 2 seconds and then be right at my push with PF and Turrets. Not to mention that Hellion harass is good, but not always viable once Protoss puts a few cannons and walls off. Not to mention that the WG mechanic makes harass with hellions very weak in that he can instantly warp in 6 stalkers anywhere he needs them. Maybe if Tanks were 2 food and do extra dmg to the single unit that they target(like in campaign) would make it more viable. But as of now a 200 Protoss army is the ultimate army in power mobility and reinforcement. Thats why mech isn't viable. | ||
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Granter
Sweden64 Posts
Havent played against many protoss that does this in a long time. If you see templars it's just because they want to get archons wich is totaly fail. They need to remake the protoss units i think to make them more than attack move units wich is basicly what protoss ball is. zealots, ato attack unit, archon auto attack unit list goes on. Only unit that truely req's some micro is stalker and templar, now compare this to something like zerg and terran. as zerg you have to be really fast with all your units to time attack and with terran a high amount of controll is required on all, thor being one of the few units that doesnt req you to do anything more than attack move it. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
Yea, you can't mass tanks in TvP. You can have 1 or 2 in the very back with a thor here and there though to supplement your bio force. The game design of terran vs protoss was that bio would be the 'standard' to whatever other units you through in the mix. It really seems like your complaining that you can't use Tanks vs protoss because they got nerfed in beta. Did you play beta? Fucking tanks were ridiculous. The only reason Koreans are going Marauder/Viking/Ghost is because it rapes Protoss. There are other styles, buy why use them when you have an 'I WIN' button. The fact that you actually complained about Colosus and HT in the same post makes me ignore the fact your text is all blue. Terran can counter Colosus and HT better than any other race (i know ht dont get used in in pvp, but other than that its harder for protoss to counter colosus than it is for terran, and is harder for zerg to counter colosus/ht then terran). Terran is the Anti-Protoss race. The fact you complain about it when there are huge amount of strats that abuse game mechanics vs protoss is laughable. The only reason people aren't use more tanks, or doing sky terran (which does work) is because they know they can win easier with reactored vikings and bio play. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On October 02 2011 02:24 ohampatu wrote: I dont understand alot of what your complaining about. Yea, you can't mass tanks in TvP. You can have 1 or 2 in the very back with a thor here and there though to supplement your bio force. The game design of terran vs protoss was that bio would be the 'standard' to whatever other units you through in the mix. It really seems like your complaining that you can't use Tanks vs protoss because they got nerfed in beta. Did you play beta? Fucking tanks were ridiculous. The only reason Koreans are going Marauder/Viking/Ghost is because it rapes Protoss. There are other styles, buy why use them when you have an 'I WIN' button. The fact that you actually complained about Colosus and HT in the same post makes me ignore the fact your text is all blue. Terran can counter Colosus and HT better than any other race (i know ht dont get used in in pvp, but other than that its harder for protoss to counter colosus than it is for terran, and is harder for zerg to counter colosus/ht then terran). Terran is the Anti-Protoss race. The fact you complain about it when there are huge amount of strats that abuse game mechanics vs protoss is laughable. The only reason people aren't use more tanks, or doing sky terran (which does work) is because they know they can win easier with reactored vikings and bio play. So your argument is that we shouldn't complain because we have an EZ button? The real reason why we don;t mech is because its crap against Toss. Yeah Marauders are good. But what if thats the reason we don't want to make them, because its to easy? And If you have kept up with everything you would know that people like MVP, Jinro, and other Terrans have tried Mech, but realized its impossible against equal Protosses. I don't know why so many people are being such idiots about the subject. What were trying to do is promote a better game. How are we going to do that? By having our voices heard. If not Bliz won't do !@#$. If you want to lose to marauders and a lucky stim/doom drop for the rest of your life thats your problem. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Also, I feel like Sky Terran vs. protoss is underplayed, get some ghosts in there to nullify high templar. But yeah, I don't like playing against terran using marine/marauders, I'd much rather fight a terran going mech, and not because I think it's easier, but because I think it's more interesting and requires more thought and decision making. | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
A few months ago I remember watching a TvP GSTL match between some Terran whose name I forgot vs MC, who did a really awesome mech tank ghost push. He became exposed on his flanks and went from being massively ahead to losing due to how exposed his tank line was due to a lack of buffer units and something like spidermines protecting his flank. I really hope spider mines come back in HoTs or something similar to it so that we don't have to play bio almost all of the time. Protoss also needs some changes so that carriers are actually viable in 1v1 to spice up TvP more. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On October 02 2011 02:49 GinDo wrote: So your argument is that we shouldn't complain because we have an EZ button? The real reason why we don;t mech is because its crap against Toss. Yeah Marauders are good. But what if thats the reason we don't want to make them, because its to easy? And If you have kept up with everything you would know that people like MVP, Jinro, and other Terrans have tried Mech, but realized its impossible against equal Protosses. I don't know why so many people are being such idiots about the subject. What were trying to do is promote a better game. How are we going to do that? By having our voices heard. If not Bliz won't do !@#$. If you want to lose to marauders and a lucky stim/doom drop for the rest of your life thats your problem. No, the problem is that the game isn't how you want it to be, so more pointless threads get made that aren't relevant to the strategy forum in all. Just because theirs a big 'D' for discussion, doesn't mean its not a balance/racial whine that should be taken to the balance forum. At no part is strategy being talked about. My argument is you are seriously complaining about shit that is stupid. You made a complaint about Colosus. Terran have the easiest Anti-Colosus tools in the game. You dont care that zerg has an infinetly harder time countering it. You dont care that the only counter for protoss is to match the opponent Colosus count. So yes. I will call you out when you complain about a unit that you can counter effectively very easy. If your trying to argue that you want more ways to counter colosus. Tough luck, none of us other races have multiple options to counter certain t3 units. Lets take a look at another thing you complained about. HT. Its not used in PvP because of the shield mechanic so we'll ignore that. Terran can counter HT more effectively than Zerg can. Not only can they counter it more effectively they have a unit that is solely built on countering it. Again. You bring up mech. All i see is you whining that you can't go strictly mech. Who Cares? If you can't, so what? If blizzard doesn't want full mech to be a standard vs protoss, then it wont be. Now we come back to you not talking about strategy at all. I see games all the time where terran is doing more than just 'bio'. Just because you cant spam tanks, doesn't mean 1 tank defensively, or some air play here and their, isn't viable. It is. You aren't the best player in the world. You can outplay your opponent with BO's that aren't just bio. And i disagree with you. When a Korean is fighting for the GSL Championship, he is going to do the easiest possible thing to beat his opponenet.. So even if he could outplay his opponent with some air play he wont do it because its dangerous and if countered could mean a loss. Flue flame drops are still very much effective. Tank contains into 3 base bio/ghost play is viable as well. There are many vialbe strat's that use BIO + other units. Again, they use the current metagame because they know that TvP is 64 percent terran favored. I dont care what you say these people do. All of these people aren't in this forum. This is a strategy forum, a Discussion about 'wahh wahh i can't go strictly mech' is pointless. I see so many Terrans complaining that its a 'coinflip'. Its not a 'coinflip'. If you choose to do a 2 base ghost/bio timing and i countered it with Colosus. You just got a BO loss. If i was going for charge play, i would have the BO loss. As much as you hate it, this game has BO losses, especially early game Some things will work at certain times, and some things wont. Its just like the warp gate complaints sprinkled here and there. Well, us 'protoss' like the warp gate mechanic. Late game its not near as easy as all you make it out to be. And its arguably more devastating for a protoss to miss a warp gate cycle then it is for terran/zerg to miss a unit cycle. But thats a different discussion i dont want to have with a terran who complains about colosus and ht. Like its easy for use to use those 2 units and beat you in a late game scenario. Talk strategy or take whining to balance discussion. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
On October 02 2011 03:18 ohampatu wrote: No, the problem is that the game isn't how you want it to be, so more pointless threads get made that aren't relevant to the strategy forum in all. Just because theirs a big 'D' for discussion, doesn't mean its not a balance/racial whine that should be taken to the balance forum. At no part is strategy being talked about. My argument is you are seriously complaining about shit that is stupid. You made a complaint about Colosus. Terran have the easiest Anti-Colosus tools in the game. You dont care that zerg has an infinetly harder time countering it. You dont care that the only counter for protoss is to match the opponent Colosus count. So yes. I will call you out when you complain about a unit that you can counter effectively very easy. If your trying to argue that you want more ways to counter colosus. Tough luck, none of us other races have multiple options to counter certain t3 units. Lets take a look at another thing you complained about. HT. Its not used in PvP because of the shield mechanic so we'll ignore that. Terran can counter HT more effectively than Zerg can. Not only can they counter it more effectively they have a unit that is solely built on countering it. Again. You bring up mech. All i see is you whining that you can't go strictly mech. Who Cares? If you can't, so what? If blizzard doesn't want full mech to be a standard vs protoss, then it wont be. Now we come back to you not talking about strategy at all. I see games all the time where terran is doing more than just 'bio'. Just because you cant spam tanks, doesn't mean 1 tank defensively, or some air play here and their, isn't viable. It is. You aren't the best player in the world. You can outplay your opponent with BO's that aren't just bio. And i disagree with you. When a Korean is fighting for the GSL Championship, he is going to do the easiest possible thing to beat his opponenet.. So even if he could outplay his opponent with some air play he wont do it because its dangerous and if countered could mean a loss. Flue flame drops are still very much effective. Tank contains into 3 base bio/ghost play is viable as well. There are many vialbe strat's that use BIO + other units. Again, they use the current metagame because they know that TvP is 64 percent terran favored. I dont care what you say these people do. All of these people aren't in this forum. This is a strategy forum, a Discussion about 'wahh wahh i can't go strictly mech' is pointless. I see so many Terrans complaining that its a 'coinflip'. Its not a 'coinflip'. If you choose to do a 2 base ghost/bio timing and i countered it with Colosus. You just got a BO loss. If i was going for charge play, i would have the BO loss. As much as you hate it, this game has BO losses, especially early game Some things will work at certain times, and some things wont. Its just like the warp gate complaints sprinkled here and there. Well, us 'protoss' like the warp gate mechanic. Late game its not near as easy as all you make it out to be. And its arguably more devastating for a protoss to miss a warp gate cycle then it is for terran/zerg to miss a unit cycle. But thats a different discussion i dont want to have with a terran who complains about colosus and ht. Like its easy for use to use those 2 units and beat you in a late game scenario. Talk strategy or take whining to balance discussion. you sir completely missed what i was talking about. you're right there's no strategy, maybe because it was moved to strategy forum from sc2 general forum where i originaly made the thread. also, i think you need to upgrade your reading skills because i don't talk about balance at all. EDIT: i dont care about winrate numbers. i dont care about balance. i talk about bio being the only option in the long run against protoss. it's the current state of the game. and no i dont want to outplay lesser opponents with strats i cant use vs pros | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
I can't go pure Robotics in any match-up. Immortals should be able to shoot air, to make Robotics play viable. Because I should be able to use only 1/3rd of my tech options and win. | ||
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dragonsuper
Liechtenstein222 Posts
On October 01 2011 05:49 PredY wrote: Hey, in this thread i'd like to share my views on the terran matchups, especially Terran vs Protoss. Everything i will be talking about is just my oppinion and i'm open to discussion. (Excuse me if the english is not perfect) 1 Introduction, StarCraft 2 philosophy? First off, i'd like to mention that i'm not gonna talk about balance. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the state of Terran, especially TvP matchup game-design and gameplay wise. I believe blizzards intended to make sc2 a fast paced game, which means they wanted to make low tier units useful, Marine+Marauder being the prime example of that. It means that there's rarely a passage in the game where nothing is happening (on the pro level). But does this hurt the game? Are low tier units too strong? Also it seems blizzard wants to make as many units viable as possible in all matchups so they can have variety in the gameplay. In BW, that was not the case, as marines were almost useless in both TvT and TvP besides couple timing attacks (f.e. Deep6). I believe sc2 TvP has the similar issue, but i'll get to that later. 2 Terran in SC2 This thread is a result of my frustration with TvP. I used to play BroodWar where Terran was often the one who would defend and expand with a lot of harassment (TvP, TvT), or would go for timing attacks to gain the upper hand (TvZ). Terran was strong in both midgame and lategame thanks to wide range of units. I believe the same cannot be said about terran in SC2. In my oppinion, terran in sc2 is the strongest in early and midgame due to strong low tier units (marines+marauders) and also thanks to MULEs, which allow you to run low on SCVs and focus on making more units. In result, terran allins are very powerful. 3 Terran matchups and variety 3.1 TvT and TvZ Current TvT and TvZ looks good to me. In both matchups there's a wide range of strategies that are viable. Bio+mech and Pure mech being the most popular. Both macro games and 2base timing attacks can be seen. In TvT there's a lot of tank positioning, controling ground and eventually switching to powerful air units (+ nukes). In TvZ, using marines early on to pressure zerg, then switching to either mech or marine tank compositions, with ghosts (and quite possibly ravens) as the ultimate tech vs T3 zerg units. Again, a lot of tanks positioning go gain ground and using the map to your advantage as much as possible. TvZ is also very micro intensive, as not paying an attention for a second can cause all your marines to blow up to couple of banelings. From spectator point of view, both TvT and TvZ are quite exciting i think, especially TvZ, because TvT can be a bit dull sometimes (mech vs mech). I'd consider TvZ the closest to BW TvZ as it's very micro intensive, requires a lot of multitasking and there are strong timing attacks and precise scouting is required. Good control (micro marines and target firing with tanks) can win you games which is for me one of the most important factors in the game. TvT, especially mech vs mech is very close to BW TvT as well. PS. i make these comparisons because i used to play BW for years and because it was such a great game and i knew i can always improve my timing, my transitioning and my control (micro) it drove me on to practice more and more. 3.2 TvP Now to the main issue i have with terran in SC2. If we consider korean pros (GSL), unless going for 1-1-1, we see MMM viking ghost for 95% games (a very nice exception being Byun vs OZ from Code A, VOD is free and can be found here). Even then though, it's only a 2base timing attack and cannot be considered as standart TvP build. I talked about TvZ and TvT. Do you know what those matchups have in common? Tanks. Tanks made BW so awesome. Tanks make TvZ and TvT in SC2 very fun to play/watch. You can control ground, abuse the terrain, siege. They take a lot of skill to play with but the reward is high, but not in TvP. It's quite sad but almost every protoss unit counters them. Do you remember when tanks did 60 damage? Good times. They were actually quite useful back then. Right now, i wanna cry every time i have 20 of them slaughtered in 10 seconds. I must admit, on some maps, tanks are quite viable. For example, on Shakuras, it's possible to play marine tank with support (ghost/banshee) - an example is a game from Shoutcraft 3 DDE vs Socke (VOD). Unfortunately, on most maps it's suicidide to go anything but bio (f.e. Taldarim). It works well on Shakuras because there's not much room to blink harass and 3base is quite safe, then split map situation favors terran. So what is the reason TvP is all bio? Marauders and warpgates. It's unfortunate that TvP got screwed because tanks were "too strong" in TvZ and were nerfed. Marauders are much more cost effective vs protoss. Hell i hate them, marauders. Such a boring unit. Even more than collosus. You make marine marauder then switch to marine marauder and in late game transition into marine marauder, errrr wait a minute...there's just no option like in other matchups.Warpgates is in my oppinion the worst game mechanic they could put into the game, but that has been discussed to death. I really DO HOPE they will change it in HoTS, but i don't expect so. Another issue i have with TvP is there's minimum micro in fights, all you do is make concave before the fight them stim and run in. Cast some emps. Then you watch if you have enough or not. Theres no micro against banelings or infestors like in TvZ. Micro will never save your ass like in TvZ. Good position will never save your ass like in TvT, because you have no tanks, and warpgates are pretty good eh! Nothings angers me more than cutting off protoss expo from his main army and have 20 zealots warped in to my back, same with drops. How about you having wrong unit composition? He has collosus and you have no vikings? You lose. He has storms and you have no EMPs? You lose. Remember when in BW you had no tanks but you could still kill lurkers with godly micro? Or when you have too many vultures against a lot of dragoons but not enough tanks, you would go in and surround with mines and then 10 goons turned to blue goo? I want THAT! 4 Conclusion Solution? I don't thing there's any at the moment. Wait for HoTS for a new unit that will complement tanks just like vultures with mines? I don't hold my hopes high. Besides map specific strategies i don't see any solution at the moment, unless some things are adjusted (tanks, warpgate mechanic). Or just korean terrans don't feel like developing any biomech/mech strategies that wouldn't be timing pushes? Btw, i'm aware of people like Goody playing mech in TvP, and i don't know his winrate not any other terran's. But unless we see a terran winnig GSL/MLG/DH with mech in TvP i'd like to focus on koreans as they are clearly the top players currently. The thing with TvP is that it doesn't feel terran-ish at all, if i wanted to make a lot of T1 units i'd play zerg! I really hate getting slaughtered by high tech protoss lategame army with HTs and Collosus, while i battle them with "awesome" marauders. As i said, TvP is really frustrating for me, making me not wanting to play the game at all, therefore there might be some over-the-top comparisons, hope you understand what i meant and give some feedback. Thanks for reading! | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
The reason you didn't get banned instead of somebody else, is because your writing skills are better than most. A mod would have banned me if i wrote what you did in any less grammitcally correct way. Because you have blue posts and are 'respected' or whatever means your whining is valid? But i'll skip over your post being a 'hidden' whine about the protoss race or game design. Lets look at this thread as a whole. If your posts dont follow under that catgory, half the posts after do. I'll break it down a bit more for you. 1. I have a 200/200 army. Im fighting a terran. That army is going to consist of prolly 4ish colosus with 3ish+ templar. The rest of my army is Gateway Units. Technically Templar is gateway anyway. So To be honest, apart from the 25+ supply of Colosus I have, im using only gateway units. By your argument that is wrong, because if i wanted i should be able to do something besides mass gateway units right? 2. Zerg has a 200/200 army. They are fighting a protoss. That army is going to consist of mostly lings, or roaches. They will add in a few casters (infestors) and try and make it to brood lords. By your argument, zerg should be able to do something other than just mass roach and/or ling right? 3. Terran has a 200/200 army. They are fighting protoss. That army is is going to consist of mostly marines/marauders. They will add in a few casters (sometimes early for a timing push, most defintely by late game to neutralize my casters) and vikings. Can you physically tell me what the problem is? I can. The problem is you want to make only mech, and thats not how the game is balanced. This isn't Broodwar TvP. If you want Broodwar TvP go play Broodwar. In Starcraft 2, all of the races have the same canundrum. We all have to have mostly 't1ish' units. Why would terran be allowed to have multiple completely different tech paths available that work in all situations, and the other races not? I dont see protoss complaining that zealots/stalkers are the majority of their army. I dont see zergs complaing that lings and/or roaches are the majority of their army. You want to know what i do see? I see terrans complaining that marines/marauders are the majority of their army. Its RIDICULOUS. If you want i can copy/paste what you say specifically: "The thing with TvP is that it doesn't feel terran-ish at all, if i wanted to make a lot of T1 units i'd play zerg! I really hate getting slaughtered by high tech protoss lategame army with HTs and Collosus, while i battle them with "awesome" marauders. As i said, TvP is really frustrating for me, making me not wanting to play the game at all, therefore there might be some over-the-top comparisons, hope you understand what i meant and give some feedback." So. Umm. Read what i posted above. We all have to make mostly T1 units. So maybe you should go back to Broodwar or something. The fact that you even state 'zerg is fine with making only t1 untis' and assume that should be correct, and then go on to assume that you shouldn't have to do that is fucking stupid dude. We all have to do that. You are too caught up in your good old broodwar days. That you fail to see your complaining about something that is the STAPLE for all units. I'll go on re-iterate the first post after yours: n0ise What do you mean, T1 units vs "hightech bio ball" The same mineral resources you invest in marine marauder he invests in zealot/stalker, the gas you invest in ghosts he invests in templars, the gas you invest in starport units he invests in collossi. This "omg mass t1 vs my t3" is something coined by laddertosses who cheese 9/10 games and start panicking once the game goes past 12 minutes. It's not actually true - there's clear parallels between the tech/gas investment between the races at all stages in the game. I honestly would take this TvP bio playstyle anyday over making tanks in TvZ and TvT - but I suppose that's personal pref. - you coming from a BW background, as you say, probably like the positional aspect of it more. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 02 2011 04:34 Alzadar wrote: I don't see how this is so different from in BW where mech is the only option in TvP (unless you are Boxer). Not every strategy has to be viable; in fact the game would be stupid if that were the case. I can't go pure Robotics in any match-up. Immortals should be able to shoot air, to make Robotics play viable. Because I should be able to use only 1/3rd of my tech options and win. exactly my thoughts! (and a post of mine) people always tend to think that strategy X has to be viable because it was viable in Broodwar, or because it is viable in another MU... Guess what, Blizzard tries to make Bio and Biomech and Mech useable, but at some point they have to consider that terran is one race, and that buffing mech will buff biomech as well, which means that if biomech now is balanced, it might become too strong, thus resulting in nerfing bio to nerf biomech... which will ultimatly make bio less playable and terran early game worse, which will just change the entire balancing... Guess what happens if zerglings and zealots counter marines? Bye bye any pressure Terran can go for early. Hello 16hatch/18hatch/20hatch/22hatch.../100pool!  I guess there might be options to change things in ways, so that more compositions will be viable in each MU, and some of those options, might even not rely on coinflips... But without completly redesigning parts of the game, this will stay an utopia. | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
But your making me mad with your broodwar comparisons. Those are the worst people in the world If you can honestly reply to my post with something thats not bashing me. Feel free to | ||
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