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On October 23 2011 09:06 Mehukannu wrote:
Only thing I wonder about the shredder is how much supply it takes. If it is just 2 supply you could find yourself cutting your army size a lot in bigger maps. Not sure how I feel about it if it were just 1 supply either, The thing might not even kill anything, which would mean you invested on something that would do pretty much same as couple of PF does already and you can repair them, which doesn't stop them from firing.
I think the biggest obstacle to getting them would be the build time, with a small concern for how much damage they do. If I have to make 6 of them to make it a big deal for Protoss to move across their space, then making 6 of them shouldn't completely throw a wrench in my army creation. Even if they cost a lot of supply, at the very least they'd be useful early/mid game to discourage sneaky flanks.
As for the warhound, I don't think they'll find their way too much into TvP. However, if tanks turn out to do too much damage to the battle hellion with their splash to the point where we can't use as many, I guess the army composition would shift to more warhounds. Hopefully, though, tanks will be preferred against both stalkers and colossi while battle hellions deal with chargelots. Ghosts will obviously be needed for HTs, and viking + mech for stargate.
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On October 23 2011 01:33 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:21 GinDo wrote:
As much as I want to rejoice I feel Terran has to many options now. The race just seems far too crowded. Hopefully it won't be. I'm sure they will be adjusting bio to be less powerful.
Are you kidding me?
1. Blizzard has already stated the Toss Deathball is strong enough and that they didn't want to add in units that would increase it's strength.
From that statement, what makes you think Terran bio is so strong? Keep in mind this is coming from the developers of the game.
2. The only thing that gives Terran a chance to win in the T v Z matchup is their bio. You nerf that and say goodbye to T v Z.
I highly doubt we will see a nerf to Terran bio now. IMO, the way things look on paper... it seems to look as if Zerg is going to be OP, especially in the late game... It's already hard enough for Terran to play zerg in the late game, let alone also having to deal with all the zerg new units. I don't want to speculate, but thats just how it seems to me. Zerg pretty much has 2 siege units now, and 3 units that have the ability to swarm your army... infestor, broodlord and the dark swarm unit or whatever its called. I can see many Terrans doing more all-inish timings attacks on zerg now... because who in the world wants to deal with that imba crap?!?!?!
In regards to the shredder, I feel this is something Terran really needed in the T v Z matchup to actually give Terran a chance to get an expansion up! How often have you seen in Pro T v Z matches where Terran struggles soooo much to get an expansion because his units are spread sooo thin accross the map! I welcome the shredder.... However, I'm not sure if it will get much use in T v P, remember...protoss has shields that regenerate. The only thing we'll see different in the T v P MU, is mech "could" now be viable.
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I think the biggest impact to the late game TvP from HoTS will be the fact that protoss can now make ghosts.... Now if you make ghosts, they can just do the same and then you have to deal with feedback + emp + snipe + blink stalkers + immortals.....
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It's obvious that a lot of things will change before HotS is released. I think tempest + colossus would straight up be overpowered if TvP stays on MMMVG. I think the change to the helion is a step in the right direction if mech wants to become viable, and in turn that could make the matchup better.
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I'm wondering just how viable pure factory is in hots. You have the new transforming hellion, old siege tank, new warhound that beats mech and is Anti-air, then you have the new shredder (best T change imo). Will it really become like BW tvp? I think Blizzard is really pushing it in the good old SC1 direction now in tvp.
1. Marauders will be gone (I'm pretty sure of this. Correct me if I'm wrong)
2. Warhound supposedly beats mech really well, so it fills in for the marauder?
3. Shredder will act as a reusable spider mine. Is it burrowed or is it out in the open? If it's the former great, if the latter it could still be workable
4. Battle hellions I guess. I personally think marines would be a better mineral sink in this case.
The thing that hurts the most is the decision to make thor a one-on-the-field-only hero unit.
...
really?
A HERO UNIT ASLDKFJASLKDFJASLDKFJASDKLFJ
THIS IS NOT WAR3 OR OTHER RTS GAMES WITH BIG FLASHY SPECIAL UNITS THAT COME OUT AND DOMINATE. THIS IS SC. YOU GET A GOOD UNIT COMP AND MICRO AND MAKE GREAT GAMES.
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sorry about that
So, I can't wait for mech terran in HotS. I like tanks much more as a core unit than marines. Yes, they make for drawn out games, but positioning tanks is so much more interesting than stimming and stutter stepping things to death.
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On October 23 2011 17:21 CatNzHat wrote:
I think the biggest impact to the late game TvP from HoTS will be the fact that protoss can now make ghosts.... Now if you make ghosts, they can just do the same and then you have to deal with feedback + emp + snipe + blink stalkers + immortals.....
Keep in mind you will be paying 200/200 to replicate that ghost, not exactly cost effecient. As a terran, I don't mind it tbh. What are you going to emp in my bio ball? My emp would've gone off before you would have replicated it, so your not really going to drain my ghosts energy. I wonder what the range on the replicator is, surely you would be able to micro ghosts away from it.
The only thing I can see worth replicating is siege tanks and ravens. But how many ppl used tanks and ravens against toss?
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 09:06 Mehukannu wrote:
Only thing I wonder about the shredder is how much supply it takes. If it is just 2 supply you could find yourself cutting your army size a lot in bigger maps. Not sure how I feel about it if it were just 1 supply either, The thing might not even kill anything, which would mean you invested on something that would do pretty much same as couple of PF does already and you can repair them, which doesn't stop them from firing.
i haven't seen its cost but they are gonna be usefull especially early on when you can't afford expensive static defence so they will do just fine
+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 17:45 Kid-Fox wrote:
I'm wondering just how viable pure factory is in hots. You have the new transforming hellion, old siege tank, new warhound that beats mech and is Anti-air, then you have the new shredder (best T change imo). Will it really become like BW tvp? I think Blizzard is really pushing it in the good old SC1 direction now in tvp.
1. Marauders will be gone (I'm pretty sure of this. Correct me if I'm wrong)
2. Warhound supposedly beats mech really well, so it fills in for the marauder?
3. Shredder will act as a reusable spider mine. Is it burrowed or is it out in the open? If it's the former great, if the latter it could still be workable
4. Battle hellions I guess. I personally think marines would be a better mineral sink in this case.
The thing that hurts the most is the decision to make thor a one-on-the-field-only hero unit.
...
really?
A HERO UNIT ASLDKFJASLKDFJASLDKFJASDKLFJ
THIS IS NOT WAR3 OR OTHER RTS GAMES WITH BIG FLASHY SPECIAL UNITS THAT COME OUT AND DOMINATE. THIS IS SC. YOU GET A GOOD UNIT COMP AND MICRO AND MAKE GREAT GAMES.
...
sorry about that
So, I can't wait for mech terran in HotS. I like tanks much more as a core unit than marines. Yes, they make for drawn out games, but positioning tanks is so much more interesting than stimming and stutter stepping things to death.
marauders ares till in the game
i agree about the thor and even though it would be useful it midlate game i hope they remove it completely
+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:33 Numy wrote:On October 23 2011 01:21 GinDo wrote:
As much as I want to rejoice I feel Terran has to many options now. The race just seems far too crowded. Hopefully it won't be. I'm sure they will be adjusting bio to be less powerful. Are you kidding me? 1. Blizzard has already stated the Toss Deathball is strong enough and that they didn't want to add in units that would increase it's strength. From that statement, what makes you think Terran bio is so strong? Keep in mind this is coming from the developers of the game. 2. The only thing that gives Terran a chance to win in the T v Z matchup is their bio. You nerf that and say goodbye to T v Z. I highly doubt we will see a nerf to Terran bio now. IMO, the way things look on paper... it seems to look as if Zerg is going to be OP, especially in the late game... It's already hard enough for Terran to play zerg in the late game, let alone also having to deal with all the zerg new units. I don't want to speculate, but thats just how it seems to me. Zerg pretty much has 2 siege units now, and 3 units that have the ability to swarm your army... infestor, broodlord and the dark swarm unit or whatever its called. I can see many Terrans doing more all-inish timings attacks on zerg now... because who in the world wants to deal with that imba crap?!?!?! In regards to the shredder, I feel this is something Terran really needed in the T v Z matchup to actually give Terran a chance to get an expansion up! How often have you seen in Pro T v Z matches where Terran struggles soooo much to get an expansion because his units are spread sooo thin accross the map! I welcome the shredder.... However, I'm not sure if it will get much use in T v P, remember...protoss has shields that regenerate. The only thing we'll see different in the T v P MU, is mech "could" now be viable.
i'm pretty sure zerg are gonna do really well vs terran after the release, since their new units are gonna change the matchup so match, terran will need some time to figure it out. i'm still hoping they are gonna buff HSM or give the raven irradiate spell 
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I think Seeker missile is actually very good after the last patch.. at least in a mech comp vs zerg, especially since a lot of zerg seem to go mass roach vs mech for some weird reason. 2-3 seeker missiles while the zerg is engaging your thors simply wipes out the zerg army. Ravens still get feedbacked to shit against toss though.
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On October 23 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:33 Numy wrote:On October 23 2011 01:21 GinDo wrote:
As much as I want to rejoice I feel Terran has to many options now. The race just seems far too crowded. Hopefully it won't be. I'm sure they will be adjusting bio to be less powerful. Are you kidding me? 1. Blizzard has already stated the Toss Deathball is strong enough and that they didn't want to add in units that would increase it's strength. From that statement, what makes you think Terran bio is so strong? Keep in mind this is coming from the developers of the game. 2. The only thing that gives Terran a chance to win in the T v Z matchup is their bio. You nerf that and say goodbye to T v Z. I highly doubt we will see a nerf to Terran bio now. IMO, the way things look on paper... it seems to look as if Zerg is going to be OP, especially in the late game... It's already hard enough for Terran to play zerg in the late game, let alone also having to deal with all the zerg new units. I don't want to speculate, but thats just how it seems to me. Zerg pretty much has 2 siege units now, and 3 units that have the ability to swarm your army... infestor, broodlord and the dark swarm unit or whatever its called. I can see many Terrans doing more all-inish timings attacks on zerg now... because who in the world wants to deal with that imba crap?!?!?! In regards to the shredder, I feel this is something Terran really needed in the T v Z matchup to actually give Terran a chance to get an expansion up! How often have you seen in Pro T v Z matches where Terran struggles soooo much to get an expansion because his units are spread sooo thin accross the map! I welcome the shredder.... However, I'm not sure if it will get much use in T v P, remember...protoss has shields that regenerate. The only thing we'll see different in the T v P MU, is mech "could" now be viable.
Geezlike talk about overreaction. One of the reasons mech isn't really tried out is because bio is so good. Hence why I said maybe bio will be slightly adjusted to not just be far better than mech. Stop thinking about balance in a game noone has seen.
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Well, all we can do is to wait for beta to test stuff out.
But, right now I was thinking of containing your opponent with shredders and tanks. =P
Also at the viper, doesn't zerg already have stuff that can break through siege lines like broodlords and for some extent the infestors throwing infested terrans and doing fungal growths. =S
EDIT: Just remembered that ultras can break those siege lines too since it seems they have that burrow charge ability.
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On October 23 2011 19:55 Mehukannu wrote:
Well, all we can do is to wait for beta to test stuff out.
But, right now I was thinking of containing your opponent with shredders and tanks. =P
Also at the viper, doesn't zerg already have stuff that can break through siege lines like broodlords and for some extent the infestors throwing infested terrans and doing fungal growths. =S
EDIT: Just remembered that ultras can break those siege lines too since it seems they have that burrow charge ability.
Not only that, but burrowed banelings can move underground now. So now zerg has three options with the banelings unit;
1. General bane bust.
2. bane traps
3. Burrowed banes which can now pretty much just a move to your army.... this ability is going to take heaps of skill........
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On October 23 2011 20:51 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 19:55 Mehukannu wrote:
Well, all we can do is to wait for beta to test stuff out.
But, right now I was thinking of containing your opponent with shredders and tanks. =P
Also at the viper, doesn't zerg already have stuff that can break through siege lines like broodlords and for some extent the infestors throwing infested terrans and doing fungal growths. =S
EDIT: Just remembered that ultras can break those siege lines too since it seems they have that burrow charge ability. Not only that, but burrowed banelings can move underground now. So now zerg has three options with the banelings unit; 1. General bane bust. 2. bane traps 3. Burrowed banes which can now pretty much just a move to your army.... this ability is going to take heaps of skill........
I fear blizzard might be overlapping some unit roles for zerg units. =/
But still, I don't know how I feel about the baneling burrow movement ability, since they can get it at hive tech only, which by then you should have turrets and/or ravens for detection, and well you have scans too. Basically it could be totally useless ability to have against terran, but I guess it might be good against protoss, because viper can just give detection to some corruptors and snipe any observers and order his burrow moving banelings to go under the protoss army and explode. :S
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On October 23 2011 17:46 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 17:21 CatNzHat wrote:
I think the biggest impact to the late game TvP from HoTS will be the fact that protoss can now make ghosts.... Now if you make ghosts, they can just do the same and then you have to deal with feedback + emp + snipe + blink stalkers + immortals.....
Keep in mind you will be paying 200/200 to replicate that ghost, not exactly cost effecient. As a terran, I don't mind it tbh. What are you going to emp in my bio ball? My emp would've gone off before you would have replicated it, so your not really going to drain my ghosts energy. I wonder what the range on the replicator is, surely you would be able to micro ghosts away from it. The only thing I can see worth replicating is siege tanks and ravens. But how many ppl used tanks and ravens against toss?
AND that ghost replica is gonna cost them 4 supply 
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This is why I all-in Protoss every game. MMM Viking Ghost herp derp got boring the 90,000th time, takes too much micro compared to Protoss (who just has to A-move), and is extremely unforgiving.
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On October 23 2011 23:55 Diabolegal wrote:
This is why I all-in Protoss every game. MMM Viking Ghost herp derp got boring the 90,000th time, takes too much micro compared to Protoss (who just has to A-move), and is extremely unforgiving.
Your sig says it all, no reason to actually respond further.
I think the new changes in HOTS are clearly gearing up to make mech viable again, which is great. Can't wait to see some good tank play.
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On October 23 2011 19:17 PredY wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 09:06 Mehukannu wrote:
Only thing I wonder about the shredder is how much supply it takes. If it is just 2 supply you could find yourself cutting your army size a lot in bigger maps. Not sure how I feel about it if it were just 1 supply either, The thing might not even kill anything, which would mean you invested on something that would do pretty much same as couple of PF does already and you can repair them, which doesn't stop them from firing. i haven't seen its cost but they are gonna be usefull especially early on when you can't afford expensive static defence so they will do just fine + Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 17:45 Kid-Fox wrote:
I'm wondering just how viable pure factory is in hots. You have the new transforming hellion, old siege tank, new warhound that beats mech and is Anti-air, then you have the new shredder (best T change imo). Will it really become like BW tvp? I think Blizzard is really pushing it in the good old SC1 direction now in tvp.
1. Marauders will be gone (I'm pretty sure of this. Correct me if I'm wrong)
2. Warhound supposedly beats mech really well, so it fills in for the marauder?
3. Shredder will act as a reusable spider mine. Is it burrowed or is it out in the open? If it's the former great, if the latter it could still be workable
4. Battle hellions I guess. I personally think marines would be a better mineral sink in this case.
The thing that hurts the most is the decision to make thor a one-on-the-field-only hero unit.
...
really?
A HERO UNIT ASLDKFJASLKDFJASLDKFJASDKLFJ
THIS IS NOT WAR3 OR OTHER RTS GAMES WITH BIG FLASHY SPECIAL UNITS THAT COME OUT AND DOMINATE. THIS IS SC. YOU GET A GOOD UNIT COMP AND MICRO AND MAKE GREAT GAMES.
...
sorry about that
So, I can't wait for mech terran in HotS. I like tanks much more as a core unit than marines. Yes, they make for drawn out games, but positioning tanks is so much more interesting than stimming and stutter stepping things to death. marauders ares till in the game i agree about the thor and even though it would be useful it midlate game i hope they remove it completely + Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 16:55 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 01:33 Numy wrote:On October 23 2011 01:21 GinDo wrote:
As much as I want to rejoice I feel Terran has to many options now. The race just seems far too crowded. Hopefully it won't be. I'm sure they will be adjusting bio to be less powerful. Are you kidding me? 1. Blizzard has already stated the Toss Deathball is strong enough and that they didn't want to add in units that would increase it's strength. From that statement, what makes you think Terran bio is so strong? Keep in mind this is coming from the developers of the game. 2. The only thing that gives Terran a chance to win in the T v Z matchup is their bio. You nerf that and say goodbye to T v Z. I highly doubt we will see a nerf to Terran bio now. IMO, the way things look on paper... it seems to look as if Zerg is going to be OP, especially in the late game... It's already hard enough for Terran to play zerg in the late game, let alone also having to deal with all the zerg new units. I don't want to speculate, but thats just how it seems to me. Zerg pretty much has 2 siege units now, and 3 units that have the ability to swarm your army... infestor, broodlord and the dark swarm unit or whatever its called. I can see many Terrans doing more all-inish timings attacks on zerg now... because who in the world wants to deal with that imba crap?!?!?! In regards to the shredder, I feel this is something Terran really needed in the T v Z matchup to actually give Terran a chance to get an expansion up! How often have you seen in Pro T v Z matches where Terran struggles soooo much to get an expansion because his units are spread sooo thin accross the map! I welcome the shredder.... However, I'm not sure if it will get much use in T v P, remember...protoss has shields that regenerate. The only thing we'll see different in the T v P MU, is mech "could" now be viable. i'm pretty sure zerg are gonna do really well vs terran after the release, since their new units are gonna change the matchup so match, terran will need some time to figure it out. i'm still hoping they are gonna buff HSM or give the raven irradiate spell
If you can't go mass Thor/Hellion, massed tank with 1/2 sieged and 1/2 unsieged is quite good and has similar ground DPS with splash. Battle hellions would then be quite the clunky space blocker. The only question is if the Warhound is useful GtA.
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EPT
