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On October 13 2011 02:22 crocodile wrote:First of all, stim is 100/100.
My mistake, I clicked on the wrong window when I was copying down the figures. I'll edit it in a moment.
Second of all, late game terran is still favored because of ghosts and the strength of vikings against colossi.
I quite agree, however I wasn't stating my opinion; I was attempting to summarise overall the general arguments of the two sides that I've seen looking through this thread (i.e. Protoss saying that the likes of 1/1/1 are incredibly strong against early protoss whilst Terrans are citing the power of the Colossus and HT storms in late-game compositions).
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Both sides dislike the current state of affairs, but I don't think anyone who understands the game believes it is imbalanced per se, since both sides are more or less equal in probability to win. The problem is that some terrans want to play long games, and some protosses want to play it fast. Both sides also want more than one strictly dominant strategy to choose from.
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On October 15 2011 05:12 ledarsi wrote:
Both sides dislike the current state of affairs, but I don't think anyone who understands the game believes it is imbalanced per se, since both sides are more or less equal in probability to win. The problem is that some terrans want to play long games, and some protosses want to play it fast. Both sides also want more than one strictly dominant strategy to choose from.
I think plenty of people who understand the game think there is a problem. And all of the statistics point to it as well. Edit:typo
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Too long to read every post so sorry if I repeat..
For me its an issue that mech counters bio (read zerg) and bio counters, well, toss (at least early-mid). Limits Ts options in either matchup. I think the two most interesting matchups currently are ZvP (lots of early builds available to both players) and TvT (T has very interesting units, just hard to balance in all matchups).
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So does anybody ever go back to day9 daily # 130 every now and then to see what it's like for Protoss to actually somewhat fear Mech.
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Man...
Watching MLG and or any high level SC2 Makes this thread stand out so much
Watching ZvP and TvZ was 10x as entertaining as any TvP. TvP is just so dry its unbelievable you could even tell in the casters, theres literally nothing to cast. Until one big engagement. Theres so many all ins that end the game so fast as well.
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TvP definitely needs looking into with the mass amounts of base races and allins happening in the matchup and the sheer fact that it's all bio all the time every time UNLESS it's some sort of thor or 1/1/1 allin. Even if it's not pure mech that comes out, Just something that isn't massed marauder with EMP and viking support all the time.
Like Thorzains Thor strategy was cool and whatever MMA was going for against Killer in Code A awhile back before team league march was pretty awesome as well although it failed.
I just want to watch something that is "TERRAN" not "marauders".
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I must have odd taste, but personally I've always loved TvP. It's definitely the most changed match up comparing from BW days going from a very defensive game on terrans part to more of a slugfest. While I do miss tanks being part of the equation in TvP, I'm not sure if I necessarily miss the old style.
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On October 17 2011 14:22 Raiznhell wrote:
TvP definitely needs looking into with the mass amounts of base races and allins happening in the matchup and the sheer fact that it's all bio all the time every time UNLESS it's some sort of thor or 1/1/1 allin. Even if it's not pure mech that comes out, Just something that isn't massed marauder with EMP and viking support all the time.
Like Thorzains Thor strategy was cool and whatever MMA was going for against Killer in Code A awhile back before team league march was pretty awesome as well although it failed.
I just want to watch something that is "TERRAN" not "marauders".
Maybe if the thor and BC nerfs to make them have energy were removed... I still cant believe they nerfed that, they didn't even give it a chance to deveolp...
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On October 17 2011 14:47 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 14:22 Raiznhell wrote:
TvP definitely needs looking into with the mass amounts of base races and allins happening in the matchup and the sheer fact that it's all bio all the time every time UNLESS it's some sort of thor or 1/1/1 allin. Even if it's not pure mech that comes out, Just something that isn't massed marauder with EMP and viking support all the time.
Like Thorzains Thor strategy was cool and whatever MMA was going for against Killer in Code A awhile back before team league march was pretty awesome as well although it failed.
I just want to watch something that is "TERRAN" not "marauders". Maybe if the thor and BC nerfs to make them have energy were removed... I still cant believe they nerfed that, they didn't even give it a chance to deveolp...
Yeah the Thor nerf practically immediately after the strategy got popular at all was definitely a piss off for sure.
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Main issue with Thors is lack of range vs Colossi (7 vs 9 and Thors have an attack delay so they cant stutter step like Colossi) and that Void Rays (double bonus damage) and Chargelots tear them to pieces.
Immortals could be dealt with by Marines (Thors cost too much gas to get EMP) but mass Chargelot would do so much damage to a Thor build since the Thors cant kite the Chargelots.
Maybe if the Strike Cannon range was increased to 9 so that Thors could engage Colossi equally at range, it would make Marines with large amounts of BFHs a viable option with the Thors.
Currently I think the Colossi would just vaporize the Marines and Hellions with ease, leaving the Chargelots to mop up the Thors.
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On October 17 2011 20:45 Raiznhell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 14:47 kofman wrote:On October 17 2011 14:22 Raiznhell wrote:
TvP definitely needs looking into with the mass amounts of base races and allins happening in the matchup and the sheer fact that it's all bio all the time every time UNLESS it's some sort of thor or 1/1/1 allin. Even if it's not pure mech that comes out, Just something that isn't massed marauder with EMP and viking support all the time.
Like Thorzains Thor strategy was cool and whatever MMA was going for against Killer in Code A awhile back before team league march was pretty awesome as well although it failed.
I just want to watch something that is "TERRAN" not "marauders". Maybe if the thor and BC nerfs to make them have energy were removed... I still cant believe they nerfed that, they didn't even give it a chance to deveolp... Yeah the Thor nerf practically immediately after the strategy got popular at all was definitely a piss off for sure.
Indeed.
What pissed me off most about that change was the reason blizzard gave:
First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible.
I mean - wtf?
This is basically saying, 'we don't want anything but MM to be the core of terran army in TvP'.
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On October 18 2011 01:19 Xayoz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:45 Raiznhell wrote:On October 17 2011 14:47 kofman wrote:On October 17 2011 14:22 Raiznhell wrote:
TvP definitely needs looking into with the mass amounts of base races and allins happening in the matchup and the sheer fact that it's all bio all the time every time UNLESS it's some sort of thor or 1/1/1 allin. Even if it's not pure mech that comes out, Just something that isn't massed marauder with EMP and viking support all the time.
Like Thorzains Thor strategy was cool and whatever MMA was going for against Killer in Code A awhile back before team league march was pretty awesome as well although it failed.
I just want to watch something that is "TERRAN" not "marauders". Maybe if the thor and BC nerfs to make them have energy were removed... I still cant believe they nerfed that, they didn't even give it a chance to deveolp... Yeah the Thor nerf practically immediately after the strategy got popular at all was definitely a piss off for sure. Indeed. What pissed me off most about that change was the reason blizzard gave: Show nested quote +First, we definitely don’t like seeing Thors en masse. Due to the visual size of the unit, as well as a small pathing radius, Thors can obscure the other units in your army too easily. This can be problematic because it's important to know roughly how many units an opponent has when scouting. We want the Thor to be the type of unit that you add to your main army, and we definitely don’t want them to be the core of your army to the point where you strive to build as many as possible. I mean - wtf? This is basically saying, 'we don't want anything but MM to be the core of terran army in TvP'.
That really was a trash reason, as if looking at colossus vs vikings is visually appealing...
I can't remember which episode of SoTG it was, but Incontrol described the marauder perfectly when he talked about these guys in power suits taking out these lumbering beasts dozens of feet tall going "phew, that was close guys!"
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Bringing this thread back with the leaked HoTs units...
Looks like alot of us here are finally getting what we want.
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yeah first thoughts are the mech is getting to be buffed
still gotta wait for the actual prezentation for changes to current unit and spells etc, but im excited. since carriers will be gone, only voidrays will actually be a worry for the terran and that shouldn't be THAT big of a deal. can't wait
hope changes to marauder/collosus will be made!
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So glad we're getting more mech based units, its like christmas!
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Yeah, Mech got extremely buffed. They even have a spider mine that doesn't kill your own units.
The carrier did get replaced with what seems to a SUPER VOIDRAY so we'll have to see.
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On October 01 2011 06:16 Thorzain wrote:
I feel that TvP IS really micro intensive. EMP everything, move your units out of storms, focus fire individual colossi with vikings and kite zealots if he's zealot heavy. And while you're kiting zealots you have to move back your ghosts so that they dont all get killed in the blink of an eye. All these things at the same time. It's freaking hard if you ask me!
You two aren't really playing the same game even if what's on the screen looks very similar ;-)
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thing is warhound apparently has small range (cant kill collo) and poor AA attack (cant kill voidrays) so it may not be that big of a buff  still gotta get vikings etc. hopefully shredder will be good!
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EPT
