EPT[G] TvZ Only marines - Page 5
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
| ||
|
padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 08 2011 09:27 ODKStevez wrote: I usually rage so much at this build when I play against it. So fustrating if the terran player is decent at micro. Especially if they use their brains and scan out the creep tumors. But its definitely not the same rage as against toss right? Everyone hates toss + Show Spoiler + lol kidding | ||
|
CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
You used to see 4rax stim combat pressure into medivacs quite often in TvZ, it was one of those go-to pressure builds to close the game out if you thought you got an advantage early game with a 2 rax for example. | ||
|
Carrera26
United States29 Posts
Start at 1:20 http://www.twitch.tv/spanishiwa/b/295794688 | ||
|
DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
I'm thinking about this, and it seems to me some sort of roach baneling army could beat this. Have you played that? I see the power of this build in the early game, where marines are very strong. But once your opponent DOES finally manage to get his Eco up, he can contain you with good ovy spread, a little ling hit squad for killing drops, and mutas. The reason you must be winning is simply because you are playing against people who cannot pull mutaling or infestors off as good as you can control marines. | ||
|
Carrera26
United States29 Posts
If Zerg saves up and tries to counter attack in force, Terran can instantly jump into a base-race situation which will pretty much always work out in Terrans favor. That army was the only thing saving your tech and production from being cut off, and even if the Terran main gets sacked your killing a no-longer-mining base with some of the production and likely idle upgrade structures that have already done their job. I can still pump out tons of marines from the other bases and simply rally them right into your bases. (All from watching a Masters do it over and over and over to other Masters and doing it myself since Bronze) Roach + Baneling = far less gas for Infestors, which is the most effective defense against this play. I celebrate whenever I see Roaches, as that means my medivac cloud is much safer and whenever I want, I can pick up my boys and leave. And this build gives you deep, deep walls of barracks with bunkers thrown in. Roaches simply aren't very good against walls + bunkers and the same goes for Banelings. Also, it's not terribly hard to swap out for Marauders if you see a heavy Roach commitment. | ||
|
htcp
United States54 Posts
Just my thoughts (mid masters 1000 points with 200 bonus pool avaliable). I will be trying this again, however, I'm not sure how my results will turn out. EDIT: I also remember that a zerg with good creep spread is also going to shut this down well. Also any quick ultras are good against this style. I know this can defenitely work for most people in bronze-diamond level skill but it becomes a lot trickier higher up. This is very strong for low level play because of how easy it is to macro this kind of build and it really teaches a player how to use marines and how to stay on equal or more bases as a zerg. | ||
|
crocodile
United States615 Posts
On October 11 2011 00:28 DarkCore wrote: :O this is funny. Another thread on how OP marines are :D I'm thinking about this, and it seems to me some sort of roach baneling army could beat this. Have you played that? I see the power of this build in the early game, where marines are very strong. But once your opponent DOES finally manage to get his Eco up, he can contain you with good ovy spread, a little ling hit squad for killing drops, and mutas. The reason you must be winning is simply because you are playing against people who cannot pull mutaling or infestors off as good as you can control marines. Watch the replays and don't QQ about balance. He's playing in high master league. These are the kinds of posts that should get you banned. I've been using this build in mid-master league for a while now, and I'm finding that you can lose to any standard Zerg composition if played correctly, but I still win 80% of my TvZ this way. Muta/Ling/Bling If the Zerg stays committing to Mutas, keeps up in upgrades, and denies your bases. If the Zerg doesn't let you get a third, or consistently kills your reactors and SCVs with Mutas, you can't build any momentum, you can't take map control, and you can't drop, so he can just build a huge econ and overrun you. Basically, the Zerg needs to deflect your attacks and hurt your economy or production AS WELL otherwise he can't win. This is how I lose most often, but most Zergs who go Muta/Ling forget to upgrade their lings so 3-3 god mode marines get ridiculous. Infestor/Ling The second way, which isn't as good, is to go Infestor-Ling with quick double upgrades, which only works because Marines are not as insanely good against Zerglings on even upgrades. The Zerg has to play very conservatively: Survive with lings at first, then get Infestors out and take a third, while massing static defense at each base and not forgetting upgrades. With a transition to Hive Tech, the Zerg can get Infestor/Broodlord or Ling/Infestor/Ultra out and overrun you. The weakness here is that no reasonable amount of static defense can stop two Medivacs full of Marines. At a certain point the Zerg CANNOT defend all his bases and still have a solid enough army to overrun your bases when you're producing ~15-20 marines and 2-4 Medivacs at a time, especially if you're playing this style with lots of orbitals and a low SCV count. Roach/Baneling This seems like it should roflstomp mass marine, but the key weakness of this style is that it's not only time consuming and larva intensive to get your army (lings first, then morph to banelings, and producing just the right amount of roaches), but it's hilariously weak to drop play. With no AA besides queens and spores, stopping drops from landing in your base whenever you move out is next to impossible, so the only truly effective way to win with this strategy is a big Roach/Baneling bust in the early midgame. Roaches are durable enough and Banelings plentiful enough that you can kill a Terran if you can stop his initial drop and attack before his marine production is too terrifying, but the timing is very slim and I've only lost to it like once. | ||
|
CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On October 11 2011 00:28 DarkCore wrote: :O this is funny. Another thread on how OP marines are :D I'm thinking about this, and it seems to me some sort of roach baneling army could beat this. Have you played that? I see the power of this build in the early game, where marines are very strong. But once your opponent DOES finally manage to get his Eco up, he can contain you with good ovy spread, a little ling hit squad for killing drops, and mutas. The reason you must be winning is simply because you are playing against people who cannot pull mutaling or infestors off as good as you can control marines. Yea, any decent zerg player can just turtle and then squash you with pretty much any unit comp, you rely on them sucking to win, not very solid way to play. | ||
|
crocodile
United States615 Posts
On October 23 2011 07:59 CatNzHat wrote: Yea, any decent zerg player can just turtle and then squash you with pretty much any unit comp, you rely on them sucking to win, not very solid way to play. By your logic, Spanishiwa is terrible, right? (hint: wrong) http://www.twitch.tv/spanishiwa/b/295794688 1 hour 20 minutes in. If you play Z, I'll GLADLY play you with this style on any map you want, and if you lose you can still argue that you suck if you want. Crocodile.703 | ||
|
Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
build order is 12 rax fast command centre and drop 2 refineries right after u take the nat and get yourself up to 6 rax, the first two rax you have get tech labs immediately, first one to finish research stim and the other one research combat shields. when you put down the star port get an eng bay and start 1/0 | ||
|
Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
On October 23 2011 09:11 crocodile wrote: By your logic, Spanishiwa is terrible, right? (hint: wrong) http://www.twitch.tv/spanishiwa/b/295794688 1 hour 20 minutes in. If you play Z, I'll GLADLY play you with this style on any map you want, and if you lose you can still argue that you suck if you want. Crocodile.703 That was a pretty good game. Spanishiwa is really good, I normally don't watch zerg streams. I like how the stream chat exploded with "terran op!!!" right away  edit: he also said, while watching the replay, that he was ahead in econ when he definitely wasn't. Then he fell pretty far behind in income and never caught up. The terran did a great job of keeping the him pinned though, and upgrades, good use of mass marines. I've been doing this reactor hellion expand opening into 1 or 2 banshee harrass. Then I get a really early third while delaying zerg's third and containing. It flows well into mass marine and medivacs if you get the add-on swap timings down, which I'm still working on. With the econ lead you can really leverage non-stop marine pressure to bully the zerg down, and keep expanding. | ||
|
Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
I agree that tanks are stupid in the matchup. They suck against everything but roaches, and unless your micro is perfect, they rarely even hit the banelings a-moved into your army (while you're freaking out trying to spread marines, macro, focus tanks, and survive the engagement) I've been going thors instead of tanks just to absorb damage. In plat/diamond, it seems to work decently, as even if he clicks banes on marines, the thors sheer size just makes them derp out... And thors sitting ducks that become useless to mutas while my marines micro around | ||
|
Fairchild
133 Posts
Now I know that your all thinking about infestors and fungal growth. But the thing is when zergs go fast infestors, drops only do that much more damage. He will be forced to go muta or die because you have so many marines and medivacs coming out that infestors aren't mobile enough to cover all his bases eventually starving him out because he will have to stay 2 base most of the game when you are comfortably expanding. What if Zerg is playing mass upgraded sling/infestor? I've played mass marine using this stratagy and I've found so long as I spread my OL and watch my mini-map I can intercept all drops with my spread out slings and still focus on the infestor with no deviation into mutalisks. At that point it's mass 1/1 2/2 slings/infestor vs mass 1/1 marine/medivac. I can see how this is perfectly viable vs mass slings, but I think you're not giving Zerg enough credit to nullify drops without mutas. edit: Also, mass sling ZvT offers lots of money for excessive spines w/o setting the Zerg back much in case Terran wants to incorporate a LOT of drop play. | ||
|
Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
| ||
|
crocodile
United States615 Posts
On October 24 2011 01:14 Fairchild wrote: What if Zerg is playing mass upgraded sling/infestor? I've played mass marine using this stratagy and I've found so long as I spread my OL and watch my mini-map I can intercept all drops with my spread out slings and still focus on the infestor with no deviation into mutalisks. At that point it's mass 1/1 2/2 slings/infestor vs mass 1/1 marine/medivac. I can see how this is perfectly viable vs mass slings, but I think you're not giving Zerg enough credit to nullify drops without mutas. edit: Also, mass sling ZvT offers lots of money for excessive spines w/o setting the Zerg back much in case Terran wants to incorporate a LOT of drop play. Watch the replays... he plays against Zergs who go mass ling-infestor. If you prefer, I can send you some of my own replays vs ling-infestor, because that build is AWFUL vs mass marine. | ||
|
NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
| ||
|
E-Coffee
Canada519 Posts
On October 24 2011 09:09 NoisyNinja wrote: How do you spend your gas after you are at 3/3 and on 3-4 base? I find it impossible to spend, do you tech to some gas heavy unit? Or do you stop mining gas all together? You could add ravens Detect banelings mines, pdd and seeker missile are great vs mutas, turrets can create quick walls or harass mineral lines, etc | ||
|
FenderStrat
Australia4 Posts
I was having massive troubles with zergs and how to stop their massive macro so I tried out this build and I'm having alot more success than what I was having before. At the double drop at 10-12 mins i try get another drop out while the first is going at another location to further pressure. It seems to be working very well as most zergs dont have much of an army at this point and find it very difficult to clean up 1 yet alone 2 drops in different locations. Thankyou! EDIT: Also been experimenting getting 1 early viking to clear out overlords in certain spawn positions. If they don't know it's coming the zergs are in big trouble normally | ||
|
fezvez
France3021 Posts
| ||
| ||
