Only a lowly diamond player but it took soooo much effort to win and he neglected drops badly.

I won eventually with bane/ling/infestor, taking bases where I could... took forever to kill him when I'd "won" though; I was amazed at how many marines you can make

Pokebunny

United States10654 Posts

September 23 2011 14:13 GMT

#42

It's a fun style, but you are definitely overestimating it. A good zerg w/ turtle infestor play (or, honestly, mutas work too to stop drops...) will rarely lose to this. It really doesn't work well unless you can get an advantage with a timing push before he gets any mutas or infestors/bane speed finished. You can tell me it does all you want, but the fact is that you are wrong if you are playing someone good. I used to use this style allllll the time.

Making marauders makes it a bit more durable vs Infestor play though. Your claim that Infestor play loses straight up to drops is simply untrue - it does not take many infestors to turtle, he will only have problems if he tries to move out too much.

Pogo0o

Poland14 Posts

September 23 2011 14:21 GMT

#43

I have a pretty nice solution to ur build - roaches

Zarahtra

Iceland4053 Posts

September 23 2011 15:37 GMT

#44

On September 23 2011 23:21 Pogo0o wrote:
I have a pretty nice solution to ur build - roaches

Roaches are kind of in the same boat as blings(up until infestor support anyway), they don't really do *that* well against rines, they slow the zerg's tech down and aren't mobile until speed is done. I normally transition into tanks mind(using heavy rine aggression to slow the zerg down and get fast upgrades/medivacs), but if I see roaches, I just relax a bit, play greedier(as in faster inbase 3rd) and drop/wait for medivacs and/or tanks and then just start again. Roaches far from counter heavy rine, if anything I welcome the zerg wasting gas on them.

Dremic

66 Posts

September 23 2011 15:45 GMT

#45

On September 23 2011 12:30 vVvPastry wrote:

Show nested quote +

If you see the replays the zerg throws away all his banelings on my marines and I have a whole new batch of marines by then. So yes micro as best as you can but you can you will be trading cost effectively

im at work and cant watch the replay. does he have baneling speed and burrow? really speed and burrow for banelings will burn this build to the ground imo

LionsFist

Australia164 Posts

September 23 2011 17:52 GMT

#46

Basically, as Pokebunny said, you need to do damage with timing pushes. The challenge obviously arises whether you can delay their tech enough with making them waste gas (and minerals to an extent) on defence before their core infestors/mutas are up. If you can delay their tech to infestors to before the 1/1/CS/Stim push, then you are almost guaranteed to do a significant amount of damage to help delay them further.

vVvPastry

United States244 Posts

September 23 2011 19:00 GMT

#47

On September 23 2011 23:21 Pogo0o wrote:
I have a pretty nice solution to ur build - roaches

Roaches are not cost effective at all vs 3-3 marines

Antisocialmunky

United States5912 Posts

September 24 2011 13:42 GMT

#48

On September 23 2011 23:13 Pokebunny wrote:
It's a fun style, but you are definitely overestimating it. A good zerg w/ turtle infestor play (or, honestly, mutas work too to stop drops...) will rarely lose to this. It really doesn't work well unless you can get an advantage with a timing push before he gets any mutas or infestors/bane speed finished. You can tell me it does all you want, but the fact is that you are wrong if you are playing someone good. I used to use this style allllll the time.

Making marauders makes it a bit more durable vs Infestor play though. Your claim that Infestor play loses straight up to drops is simply untrue - it does not take many infestors to turtle, he will only have problems if he tries to move out too much.

One thing I've never quite figured out is what map type the all marines all the time style favor. Obviously maps with short rush distance an expo patterns that are kinda strung out. But I've never found a map that highly discourages it much, especially with dropping so I was wondering if anyone had any insights on it.

Also, why aren't you blue yet?

elemental523

United States51 Posts

September 24 2011 14:27 GMT

#49

It's stupid how terran wins with three units. Good thing GOOD zerg players can just get queens and early upgraded ling/bling to counter this entire build. Burrow and hooks will also destroy you. Then they can tech to mutas or festors. Festors you can go Destiny style hit squad drops and and maybe a fungal here and there and marines will just turn to goo.

the p00n

Netherlands615 Posts

September 24 2011 14:32 GMT

#50

I've been playing around with this build quite a lot, and would like to know how you counter an eco baneling bust? Right now I scout with a hidden scv around 6.30 - 6.45 to check saturation on natural and what units pop out of the cocoons and then scan the main --> usually I mass bunkers behind my rax which works in holding it off, but from there on it is quite hard to properly transition.

LionsFist

Australia164 Posts

September 24 2011 14:35 GMT

#51

Certain maps give you different strengths.

XNC for example, shorter push distance, a few smaller chokes to work with, relatively easy to take map control during a push. These all give you a stronger first hit. Late game, with the smaller map size and harassable cliff areas give the zerg a stronger chance at holding with muta based plays, and less chance with infestor based play.

Tal'darim though has a lot longer attack distance, including massive flankable areas in the middle if cross-positions. This makes your initial push have to either move out and risk flanking when un-upgraded, or waste a lot of your timing push moving across the map. Late game though, the wider distances and excess expansions allow the marine play to have multi-pronged effectiveness, and give muta responses a more defensive feel. Infestors play a bigger role though now because of the distance available to kite the army around.

In the end, there isn't directly a map type that is going to be terrible for this style, but you yourself have to work out what the advantages/disadvantages are of each before adapting your aggression levels to it.

EDIT: Ohh, and Pokebunny for blue!

Tuplex

80 Posts

September 24 2011 16:06 GMT

#52

I've played with a build like this in some custom games, and won quite a few of them. I'm high gold and I was beating plat and diamond players with this marine/expand style. I saw SlayerSDragon do it on his stream when he was laddering up on the EU server, he was just screwing around, but I thought, hey that looks like a fun way to practice macro off of multiple bases! At gold level, I have trouble keeping up with my macro once I get on more than 2-3 bases. So with this build I was just building CC's and barracks, most games I had ~15 barracks and was building supply depots like crazy. Lots of fun! Many players just get overwhelmed by this, due to the sheer numbers of marines, and the fact that it is rather unexpected.

Crowned

United States368 Posts

September 24 2011 22:46 GMT

#53

Will try this later.

xenoid

Canada41 Posts

September 24 2011 23:51 GMT

#54

using this as my go to as a i get to grips with playing a solid macro diamond TvZ game. i was favouring 2rax->5rax before but this feels more refined and has better upgrades with drop capability. <3 this very much!

Umpteen

United Kingdom1570 Posts

September 24 2011 23:58 GMT

#55

On September 23 2011 22:35 Evangelist wrote:
I've done this a few times are low level but I usually mix in a really small number of marauders (8:1 ratio or so) just for the slow combined with relentless attacking.

It's like playing a zerg. Very fun.

I can assure you it is nothing whatsoever like playing zerg.

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10364 Posts

September 25 2011 00:07 GMT

#56

Now can you explain what happens if he gets both infestors and mutas, or starts to sit 1 infestor at each of his bases like Leenock does?

On September 24 2011 23:27 elemental523 wrote:
It's stupid how terran wins with three units. Good thing GOOD zerg players can just get queens and early upgraded ling/bling to counter this entire build. Burrow and hooks will also destroy you. Then they can tech to mutas or festors. Festors you can go Destiny style hit squad drops and and maybe a fungal here and there and marines will just turn to goo.

It's stupid how people think that 3 unit compositions aren't diverse.

Let's see, it's stupid how zerg can just go muta ling bling. Hey that's 3 units right there. ???
Or according to what you said, zerg can mass 2 units (ling bling) and kill terran, who uses three units.

???

Not to mention that the races are different, so you can't compare them like that. Unlike Protoss, Terran's tech tree is designed to be more split up, so that you can (though not to as much extent as you could in BW) go pure bio, go pure mech, etc. Now with Protoss obviously you cannot go pure Robotics units or pure Stargate units, nor even mainly. But with Terran you can.

it's how the races are made, stop qq'ing

Even if you meant to type 2 units, since this guide is marine/medivac, it's still illogical.

Skiro

Netherlands87 Posts

September 25 2011 00:12 GMT

#57

How do you defend an all in when you go pure bio? I never manage to survive an all in when going mass rines, but that might just be me

Masq

Canada1792 Posts

September 25 2011 00:23 GMT

#58

I used to do this build a LOT, and still do it from time to time.

Good muta play will kill you more often than not.

Clairval

France37 Posts

September 25 2011 00:34 GMT

#59

@Skiro - On early game, proper scouting, 3 bunkers + SCVs to repair. On mid-game, the opponent shouldn't be in position to all-in you, but if so, add a line of tanking maraudeurs.

P.S. After some baneling craziness in late-game I saw two 3/3 marudeurs + two medivacs able to destroy a whole army of glings. Those are a great transition choice to mix in your marines, espacially if there are no mutas.

Xenocryst

United States521 Posts

September 25 2011 00:40 GMT

#60

seems like an interesting build