|
Now the biggy:
Infestor
Hard, hard nerf... I don't know about that. Unstimmed marines with shield and medivac support will survive 2 fungals now... Maybe something had to be done, but Infestors recently went from hardly playable to powerful/fast to powerful/slow and now?
infestors got their speed nerfed the same time they got their buff, we never had a powerful/fast infestor.
also, I'd like to see more of HT kinda of nerf on the infestor, this way zergs cant feel safe making 11 infestors at once, they have to do it slowly.
|
On August 26 2011 05:17 Theeakoz wrote:Show nested quote +Now the biggy:
Infestor
Hard, hard nerf... I don't know about that. Unstimmed marines with shield and medivac support will survive 2 fungals now... Maybe something had to be done, but Infestors recently went from hardly playable to powerful/fast to powerful/slow and now? infestors got their speed nerfed the same time they got their buff, we never had a powerful/fast infestor. also, I'd like to see more of HT kinda of nerf on the infestor, this way zergs cant feel safe making 11 infestors at once, they have to do it slowly.
nope, the speedchange came some weeks(?) later.
I think the buff was 1.3.3 (big patch) and the nerf 1.3.4 (small patch) or something like that.
|
With Barracks change i dont know how i am suposed to stop canon rush, 6 pool or proxy 2 gate? only way i can thing about is walling at bottom ramp, but it have other flaws ...... I just hope this 1 dont make it on live realm.
Other changes seems ok, but raven´s seeker missile suck and speed increase wont change it
|
On August 26 2011 00:23 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 20:32 Psychobabas wrote:
I've been posting this on every thread about the patch!!!!!
Blue flame hellions still 2 shot a zergling! Nothing has changed in the Hellion v Zergling!!
Do the math! :D I'm just gonna requote this because i think it's that important. Unupgraded Hellion damage (vs light) 14 (x3 : 42dmg kills drone, zergling) OLD BFHellion damage (vs light) 24 (x2 : 48dmg kills drone, zergling) NEW BFHellion damage (vs light) 19 (x2 : 38dmg kills zergling, NOT drone) Basic analysis: if you're going for worker kills, you need 3 hellions, regardless of upgrades if you want to kill zerglings, you either need 3 hellions or 2 blue flame hellions (same as before) I would hope blizzard doesn't keep the upgrade cost at 150/150... it's almost not worth it anymore, from a pure resources standpoint, and then when you factor in the time you have to commit a techlab on your factory, when you could have a reactor? Totally not worth it. I'd rather have double the the hellions.
We're probably going to see even SOONER Hellion harass; not having to wait for blueflame considering it's going to require the same amount as unupgraded, save 50/150, go with 3 hellions.
|
On August 26 2011 05:22 Fik-cz wrote:
With Barracks change i dont know how i am suposed to stop canon rush, 6 pool or proxy 2 gate? only way i can thing about is walling at bottom ramp, but it have other flaws ...... I just hope this 1 dont make it on live realm.
Other changes seems ok, but raven´s seeker missile suck and speed increase wont change it
The same way as always, I guess? It's 5sec... not 20!
I don't know how you could hold against those builds right now on Xel'Naga Caverns, if you think you have a general problem now...
|
On August 26 2011 04:09 Aletheia27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:04 dere wrote:On August 26 2011 03:57 sleepingdog wrote:On August 26 2011 03:51 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:48 ImmortalTofu wrote:On August 26 2011 03:45 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:41 ImmortalTofu wrote:On August 26 2011 03:38 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:35 ImmortalTofu wrote:
Amnesiac, all I want is 1 or two games where 5 seconds would have lost Terran the game. That's ALL I'm asking for. Masters/Diamond/Gold, it makes no difference, only the pros understand the game at the highest level possible atm, and the highest level is what matters when balancing...
xTrim, I was referring to Amnesiac (sorry for the mistake) when I said you thought T was unplayable.
I agree, the change is kinda bogus, and it makes T more susceptible to cheese, but I've always thought them the most cheese-proof race anyway... I don't know, I dont' think the change should go through, but I don't think its as big of a deal as some make it out to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding. i never said it would lose games i said it would make a difference sometimes significant, sometimes not, like all these changes. and that i think they are totally unfair on all terran bar korean pros. believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about. Ok that makes more sense thank you. No I agree its not the greatest change, but you say it will make T unplayable... I see nothing to support that though, will maybe a combined 20 seconds in the fist 10 minutes of the game really end Terran's life? Ghosts and Medivac drops, the core of your latergame haven't been touched, and a drop 20 seconds later doesnt matter, its really timing as in where their army is that does matter! not unplayable no but for a race which already requires a higher level of skill to play at the same level at masters for example, it makes it a damn site unattractive race to play. Hm... ok that is much better reasoned. APM is irrelevant to skill, but i WOULD like to point out sjow. The guy has 100 apm, less than half most pros, and still does well in every event he enters... Now again, APM doesn't really matter, and you're talking about masters not pro, but I see SOME level of connection here, and I say that it doesn't require THAT much more skill... Are you suggesting that Protoss players and Zerg players suck and win because of their race? I'm just asking, I don't actually play terran at any reasonable level, so I don't really know. How does it take more skill at masters/dia level?? terran has been underepresented at masters lamost indefinitely for the past 8 months. they are the only race who can't sti back and win on pure macro and mostly a move compisitions? to stay level vs toss or zerg they have to harrass constantly and outmultitask them? Did I read your posts just right, do you REALLY complain about terrans being....underrepresented? Well, yeah, in average masters maybe, because most of them are in grandmaster, herpderp This is ridiculous. Terrans are also under represented in diamond and platinum. I suppose you're going to suggest that they're all in masters as well? http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all your data suggests that all races are equal in masters...first off... while true that they're underrepresented in diamond/plat and over represented in GM >_>
while i dont think balance in lower leagues>> balance on pro lvl, the notion that all races have equal representation in master league indicates that its balanced in master league is just false.
of all the races zerg has the lowest amount of players(the lower leagues are more populous then the higher leagues and the percentage of players in the lower leagues that are zerg is quite alot lower then the other races(bronze and silver combined is about 52 percent of the player base and zerg has about 22 percent of all the players in those leagues) because the zerg player pool is smaller in general you would expect zergs to have a lower percentage of players in all leagues wich is not the case(the amount of zerg masters/gm's/diamonds/plats are very close to the amount of toss'es and terrans).
for clearer example
just saying 1/3 of the master players is race x doesnt neceserily indicate balance.
lets say 1/1000th of the total player base plays race x and 1/3 of master and GM plays race x then clearly thats unbalanced(pretty much all race x's players are promoting to the highest leagues).
ps
I dont want to say zerg is imbalanced this was just a thread about interpreting those race statistics, but with stastics there are always other possible explanations,
as in this case another explanation could be: newbie players are more likely to start off as protoss or terran as they could have tried out those races in the campaign, and newbies are more likely to be in bronze or silver hence the lower amount of zerg.
|
On August 26 2011 05:22 Fik-cz wrote:
With Barracks change i dont know how i am suposed to stop canon rush, 6 pool or proxy 2 gate? only way i can thing about is walling at bottom ramp, but it have other flaws ...... I just hope this 1 dont make it on live realm.
Other changes seems ok, but raven´s seeker missile suck and speed increase wont change it
If you're concerned about completing your wall-off in time, can't you have a second SCV build the second depot at the top of your ramp while your barracks is still in-progress? You'll still have the minerals for the second depot in time; it's just that the rax finishes 5 seconds later, right?
|
On August 26 2011 04:42 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:38 Squigly wrote:
As for the HT immortal comment, If you let all you immortals AND HT empd, well, you got outmicrod so hard your gonna lose anyways no matter your comp. You show me how you avoid getting the two of the slowest units in the game EMPed... Immortal/HT was bad before and it will be bad after 1.4. The immortal buff doesn't suddenly make them good vs ghosts lol. Nevertheless I expect more gateway/immortal/colossus-compositions, as the terran can't reasonably build both vikings and ghosts in high numbers early enough.
Use a now sturdy warp prism to move HT whitera style
|
On August 26 2011 05:25 annedeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:09 Aletheia27 wrote:On August 26 2011 04:04 dere wrote:On August 26 2011 03:57 sleepingdog wrote:On August 26 2011 03:51 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:48 ImmortalTofu wrote:On August 26 2011 03:45 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:41 ImmortalTofu wrote:On August 26 2011 03:38 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:35 ImmortalTofu wrote:
Amnesiac, all I want is 1 or two games where 5 seconds would have lost Terran the game. That's ALL I'm asking for. Masters/Diamond/Gold, it makes no difference, only the pros understand the game at the highest level possible atm, and the highest level is what matters when balancing...
xTrim, I was referring to Amnesiac (sorry for the mistake) when I said you thought T was unplayable.
I agree, the change is kinda bogus, and it makes T more susceptible to cheese, but I've always thought them the most cheese-proof race anyway... I don't know, I dont' think the change should go through, but I don't think its as big of a deal as some make it out to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding. i never said it would lose games i said it would make a difference sometimes significant, sometimes not, like all these changes. and that i think they are totally unfair on all terran bar korean pros. believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about. Ok that makes more sense thank you. No I agree its not the greatest change, but you say it will make T unplayable... I see nothing to support that though, will maybe a combined 20 seconds in the fist 10 minutes of the game really end Terran's life? Ghosts and Medivac drops, the core of your latergame haven't been touched, and a drop 20 seconds later doesnt matter, its really timing as in where their army is that does matter! not unplayable no but for a race which already requires a higher level of skill to play at the same level at masters for example, it makes it a damn site unattractive race to play. Hm... ok that is much better reasoned. APM is irrelevant to skill, but i WOULD like to point out sjow. The guy has 100 apm, less than half most pros, and still does well in every event he enters... Now again, APM doesn't really matter, and you're talking about masters not pro, but I see SOME level of connection here, and I say that it doesn't require THAT much more skill... Are you suggesting that Protoss players and Zerg players suck and win because of their race? I'm just asking, I don't actually play terran at any reasonable level, so I don't really know. How does it take more skill at masters/dia level?? terran has been underepresented at masters lamost indefinitely for the past 8 months. they are the only race who can't sti back and win on pure macro and mostly a move compisitions? to stay level vs toss or zerg they have to harrass constantly and outmultitask them? Did I read your posts just right, do you REALLY complain about terrans being....underrepresented? Well, yeah, in average masters maybe, because most of them are in grandmaster, herpderp This is ridiculous. Terrans are also under represented in diamond and platinum. I suppose you're going to suggest that they're all in masters as well? http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all your data suggests that all races are equal in masters...first off... while true that they're underrepresented in diamond/plat and over represented in GM >_> while i dont think balance in lower leagues>> balance on pro lvl, the notion that all races have equal representation in master league indicates that its balanced in master league is just false. of all the races zerg has the lowest amount of players(the lower leagues are more populous then the higher leagues and the percentage of players in the lower leagues that are zerg is quite alot lower then the other races(bronze and silver combined is about 52 percent of the player base and zerg has about 22 percent of all the players in those leagues) because the zerg player pool is smaller in general you would expect zergs to have a lower percentage of players in all leagues wich is not the case(the amount of zerg masters/gm's/diamonds/plats are very close to the amount of toss'es and terrans). for clearer example just saying 1/3 of the master players is race x doesnt neceserily indicate balance. lets say 1/1000th of the total player base plays race x and 1/3 of master and GM plays race x then clearly thats unbalanced(pretty much all race x's players are promoting to the highest leagues). ps I dont want to say zerg is imbalanced this was just a thread about interpreting those race statistics, but with stastics there are always other possible explanations, as in this case another explanation could be: newbie players are more likely to start off as protoss or terran as they could have tried out those races in the campaign, and newbies are more likely to be in bronze or silver hence the lower amount of zerg.
Um... my comment wasn't so much about the interpretation of the data so much as the innacuracy of report of that data.... Sorry if you took it that way. I agree that equal race representation isn't an indicator of balance....
|
On August 26 2011 05:35 Squigly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 04:42 sleepingdog wrote:On August 26 2011 04:38 Squigly wrote:
As for the HT immortal comment, If you let all you immortals AND HT empd, well, you got outmicrod so hard your gonna lose anyways no matter your comp. You show me how you avoid getting the two of the slowest units in the game EMPed... Immortal/HT was bad before and it will be bad after 1.4. The immortal buff doesn't suddenly make them good vs ghosts lol. Nevertheless I expect more gateway/immortal/colossus-compositions, as the terran can't reasonably build both vikings and ghosts in high numbers early enough. Use a now sturdy warp prism to move HT whitera style
That's a good practice.
However interestingly enough the new "sturdiness" of the warp prism is all in shield points, and we're talking about how HT/immortal fares against a ghost-heavy composition.... One EMP depletes all of the prism shields. The prism is also built from the robo bay and so competes with immortals and observers for build time in this hypothetical HT/immortal composition. It's better than it was, but that robo build time is still better spent on collosus that can just focus down the ghosts from range and make it safer to bring up your HT.
It's analogous to giving the reaper +1 range. Sure, it's nice in some niche circumstances. But no terran is going to waste rax time on pumping out a ton of reapers in the midgame or lategame because marines and marauders are just better in almost every circumstance.
Maybe some day if all of the flying units -- including observers and warp prisms -- are produced from the starport, there will be more room for producing immortals and warp prisms.
|
On August 26 2011 05:24 N1ghtshade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 00:23 spbelky wrote:On August 25 2011 20:32 Psychobabas wrote:
I've been posting this on every thread about the patch!!!!!
Blue flame hellions still 2 shot a zergling! Nothing has changed in the Hellion v Zergling!!
Do the math! :D I'm just gonna requote this because i think it's that important. Unupgraded Hellion damage (vs light) 14 (x3 : 42dmg kills drone, zergling) OLD BFHellion damage (vs light) 24 (x2 : 48dmg kills drone, zergling) NEW BFHellion damage (vs light) 19 (x2 : 38dmg kills zergling, NOT drone) Basic analysis: if you're going for worker kills, you need 3 hellions, regardless of upgrades if you want to kill zerglings, you either need 3 hellions or 2 blue flame hellions (same as before) I would hope blizzard doesn't keep the upgrade cost at 150/150... it's almost not worth it anymore, from a pure resources standpoint, and then when you factor in the time you have to commit a techlab on your factory, when you could have a reactor? Totally not worth it. I'd rather have double the the hellions. We're probably going to see even SOONER Hellion harass; not having to wait for blueflame considering it's going to require the same amount as unupgraded, save 50/150, go with 3 hellions.
Well, the +5 sec on the rax will slow the hellion harass by at least 5 seconds.  So, as a zerg, I can always look forward to that. 
|
On August 26 2011 05:46 galivet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 05:35 Squigly wrote:On August 26 2011 04:42 sleepingdog wrote:On August 26 2011 04:38 Squigly wrote:
As for the HT immortal comment, If you let all you immortals AND HT empd, well, you got outmicrod so hard your gonna lose anyways no matter your comp. You show me how you avoid getting the two of the slowest units in the game EMPed... Immortal/HT was bad before and it will be bad after 1.4. The immortal buff doesn't suddenly make them good vs ghosts lol. Nevertheless I expect more gateway/immortal/colossus-compositions, as the terran can't reasonably build both vikings and ghosts in high numbers early enough. Use a now sturdy warp prism to move HT whitera style That's a good practice. However interestingly enough the new "sturdiness" of the warp prism is all in shield points, and we're talking about how HT/immortal fares against a ghost-heavy composition.... One EMP depletes all of the prism shields. The prism is also built from the robo bay and so competes with immortals and observers for build time in this hypothetical HT/immortal composition. It's better than it was, but that robo build time is still better spent on collosus that can just focus down the ghosts from range and make it safer to bring up your HT. It's analogous to giving the reaper +1 range. Sure, it's nice in some niche circumstances. But no terran is going to waste rax time on pumping out a ton of reapers in the midgame or lategame because marines and marauders are just better in almost every circumstance. Maybe some day if all of the flying units -- including observers and warp prisms -- are produced from the starport, there will be more room for producing immortals and warp prisms.
People who prefer the HT into Colossi play-style the Warp Prism shuttling HTs will still serve a purpose as you transition into double robo colossi when ghost numbers start getting out of control late game. It undoubtably improves drop play for protoss. More than anything the buff will cause a lot of the top players to re-examine drop play and warp prism use in general which is a good thing.
|
On August 26 2011 05:46 galivet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 05:35 Squigly wrote:On August 26 2011 04:42 sleepingdog wrote:On August 26 2011 04:38 Squigly wrote:
As for the HT immortal comment, If you let all you immortals AND HT empd, well, you got outmicrod so hard your gonna lose anyways no matter your comp. You show me how you avoid getting the two of the slowest units in the game EMPed... Immortal/HT was bad before and it will be bad after 1.4. The immortal buff doesn't suddenly make them good vs ghosts lol. Nevertheless I expect more gateway/immortal/colossus-compositions, as the terran can't reasonably build both vikings and ghosts in high numbers early enough. Use a now sturdy warp prism to move HT whitera style That's a good practice. However interestingly enough the new "sturdiness" of the warp prism is all in shield points, and we're talking about how HT/immortal fares against a ghost-heavy composition.... One EMP depletes all of the prism shields. The prism is also built from the robo bay and so competes with immortals and observers for build time in this hypothetical HT/immortal composition. It's better than it was, but that robo build time is still better spent on collosus that can just focus down the ghosts from range and make it safer to bring up your HT. It's analogous to giving the reaper +1 range. Sure, it's nice in some niche circumstances. But no terran is going to waste rax time on pumping out a ton of reapers in the midgame or lategame because marines and marauders are just better in almost every circumstance. Maybe some day if all of the flying units -- including observers and warp prisms -- are produced from the starport, there will be more room for producing immortals and warp prisms.
Or maybe a second robo? Just to get more immortals (instead of stalkers), because they have the same prize (*2) and with good warp prisms... you will want to have more of them too...
|
On August 26 2011 03:57 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:51 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:48 ImmortalTofu wrote:On August 26 2011 03:45 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:41 ImmortalTofu wrote:On August 26 2011 03:38 rmAmnesiac wrote:On August 26 2011 03:35 ImmortalTofu wrote:
Amnesiac, all I want is 1 or two games where 5 seconds would have lost Terran the game. That's ALL I'm asking for. Masters/Diamond/Gold, it makes no difference, only the pros understand the game at the highest level possible atm, and the highest level is what matters when balancing...
xTrim, I was referring to Amnesiac (sorry for the mistake) when I said you thought T was unplayable.
I agree, the change is kinda bogus, and it makes T more susceptible to cheese, but I've always thought them the most cheese-proof race anyway... I don't know, I dont' think the change should go through, but I don't think its as big of a deal as some make it out to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding. i never said it would lose games i said it would make a difference sometimes significant, sometimes not, like all these changes. and that i think they are totally unfair on all terran bar korean pros. believe it or not, that's not actually the majority of people playing this race yet that's all blizzard cares about. Ok that makes more sense thank you. No I agree its not the greatest change, but you say it will make T unplayable... I see nothing to support that though, will maybe a combined 20 seconds in the fist 10 minutes of the game really end Terran's life? Ghosts and Medivac drops, the core of your latergame haven't been touched, and a drop 20 seconds later doesnt matter, its really timing as in where their army is that does matter! not unplayable no but for a race which already requires a higher level of skill to play at the same level at masters for example, it makes it a damn site unattractive race to play. Hm... ok that is much better reasoned. APM is irrelevant to skill, but i WOULD like to point out sjow. The guy has 100 apm, less than half most pros, and still does well in every event he enters... Now again, APM doesn't really matter, and you're talking about masters not pro, but I see SOME level of connection here, and I say that it doesn't require THAT much more skill... Are you suggesting that Protoss players and Zerg players suck and win because of their race? I'm just asking, I don't actually play terran at any reasonable level, so I don't really know. How does it take more skill at masters/dia level?? terran has been underepresented at masters lamost indefinitely for the past 8 months. they are the only race who can't sti back and win on pure macro and mostly a move compisitions? to stay level vs toss or zerg they have to harrass constantly and outmultitask them? Did I read your posts just right, do you REALLY complain about terrans being....underrepresented? Well, yeah, in average masters maybe, because most of them are in grandmaster, herpderp I've said this multiple times today: once terrans drop below 50-60% in GSL we can talk about them being even with the other races (still another step for being weaker) Terran has dominated continuosly since release, not despite but because of the fact that you CAN use multi-pronged attacks/harass/etc.
There are both MORE and better terrans in Korea than the other races. It's only natural for their over-representation. Every single A-team BW player that has moved to SC2 is a terran.
|
Yea i dont know why P dont ever get a second robo, they always say they can afford stuff but dont have robo time
|
On August 26 2011 06:01 Squigly wrote:
Yea i dont know why P dont ever get a second robo, they always say they can afford stuff but dont have robo time
Double robo is pretty standard later on.
There are both MORE and better terrans in Korea than the other races. It's only natural for their over-representation. Every single A-team BW player that has moved to SC2 is a terran.
Yeah all 2 of them.
|
My best guess is that the +1 immortal range is actually balanced against the decreased ultralisk build time rather than anything going on in the current state of the game. In early- and mid-game scenarios you only have 3 or 4 immortals to micro and it's not that hard to keep them in a firing position. Late game you could end up with a large number of immortals to counter ultralisks; in that case the +1 range may be significant.
It looks like the ultralisk build time reduction is a ZvT balance fix, so I guess blizzard is throwing in the +1 range boost for immortals to try and keep ultras from taking over the lategame of ZvP.
It would be so much easier if they would just let the units have slightly different attributes in each matchup so that they could balance them independently instead of all this complex three-way balancing.
|
On August 26 2011 04:32 galivet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 03:54 awesomoecalypse wrote:I don't really get why protoss players are so excited about these changes. Because you're not thinking clearly. Immortals and warp prisms were both buffed! But you build them out of the same production building, which is still the same production building that produces observers and colossus. So...it's now slightly easier to micro 2-base immortal busts? Gimmick builds that involve warp prisms are slightly easier to pull off? These little buffs didn't suddenly make immortals and warp prisms more valuable than colossus and observers; I know where my robo build time is still going to go. This is, frankly, stupid. A major part of the problem with Protoss right now is that they are really, really inflexible. One some of their units are viable in most situations, and all of their units are expensive. They are hugely reliant on T3, and their harass options suck at most stages of the game.They have a few effective general strats which T and Z have fairly well figured out right now, and most Toss are trying to innovate, but the problem is that they just don't have that many good units. As you say, even though the Robo tree gets you 4 units, currently only 2 are fully viable. Immortals have a very narrow timing window of not sucking, and then they are viable against only specific builds. Warp Prisms can be effective, but due to their fragility strats built around them can fall apart with the slightest misclick. This addresses that issue. As was seen with both Roaches and Archons, range buffs are hugely beneficial to a Unit's overall effectiveness. Especially if, as with Immortals, they are both slow as hell and do insane dps once they get in range. Immortal+Zealot will hard-counter every single Roach-Ling all-in. Just park your Immortals behind your Zealots, watch the Lings get mauled as they try to get through the Zealots, while your Immortal sits safely in the back, sniping Roaches who can't hit back. An Immortal will also be much, much more useful in defending against 1/1/1 builds.
Fungal growth does one less marine shot's worth damage. Right, because that's the aspect of infestors that makes them so useful in ZvP.
Uh....you do realize that FG used to have like twice as long a root effect right? And they cut it in half and bumped the dps accordingly, at which point it became insanely powerful? The DPS FG did to armored was 100% the problem. I mean, the Root effect is nice and all, but that has always been there, and in fact used to be better. All that has changed to make them better is higher dps. Now it is still fairly high, but not quite as crazy. That definitely helps. Meanwhile, protoss ability to apply early- and mid-game pressure in PvZ has once more diminished. If zerg scouts your archives, it's now less expensive for him to prepare a defense against DTs and he has even longer to drone before needing to product attacking units in preparation for a potential blink stalker push. How is it diminished? All of the stronger Blink rushes are built around hitting when +2 finishes, which is long after blink will finish pre or post patch. And nobody defends their base against DTs with Overseers anyway, they get like one spore crawler and let their queens do the rest. P.S. I don't really care about mirror-matches; PvP is one match-up that is always guaranteed to be balanced and that a protoss will always win. "Balance" changes for PvP accomplish nothing meaningful aside from generating unanticipated backlash in PvZ and PvT (e.g. the warp gate nerf). This is idiotic. Unless you are playing for money, which you are not because you clearly don't know what you're talking about, something being "balanced" doesn't mean shit if it isn't fun, and current PvP is a total coinflip, which is unfun. The Immortal buff and the vision changes put an end to 4-gate, the blink timing delay means it will hit to late to stop a robo from getting enough Immortals to hold it off, meaning that PvP early and midgame will stabilize around robo. However, in the lategame, Guardian shield now works vs. Colossi fire and stacks with Immortal shiels, which combined with their improved range means they can actually get close enough to snipe Colossi, meaning 1-base Colossi wars are likely over. This is a good thing. A matchup built around coinflip BO wins which if it gets past that point turns into 1-base blink all-ins or Colossi wars 90% of the time, is stupid. Changing that is a good thing. First off, your petulantly insulting attitude and ad-homs don't make your arguments stronger; they just make you sound like a kid with a chip on his shoulder (perhaps with the added benefit of allowing you to feel like a "big man" on an internet forum). Anyway: In PvT, you need AOE to combat large bio-balls. If you attempt to form some kind of HT/immortal composition, then you're doubly vulnerable to EMP -- it both drains templar mana and eliminates the immortal hardened shield bonus. Collosus are still much more valuable outside of a two-base bunker bust that leverages immortals. Immortal range is not at all the issue with 1-1-1; it's the massive DPS of balled marines. Immortals have no trouble getting in range of the tanks; they have trouble standing up to marine DPS. In PvZ, you still can't usefully mass them like you can roaches because they're much more expensive and take much longer to build. The +1 helps a little by making it easier to micro the 3-4 immortals that you can reasonably get. You're not going to suddenly see giant immortal balls in PvZ because they take too long and too much to build and they're easily countered by a spire tech-switch without the support of large numbers of stalkers and/or HT. If I were to try and rebalance the PvZ midgame by tweaking infestors, my first choice would not be to adjust FG damage. I might look at the perma-snare ability of spammed FG, or the fact that it's not possible to dodge it like storm can be dodged. But FG damage just isn't a big deal; zealots and archons take forever to damage appreciably with FG. Infested terrans are a much bigger issue; 5 infestors can lob 40 infested terrans at a nexus, which can do over 11,000 damage before they despawn -- enough to kill the nexus, any cannons, workers, and even your whole army if you don't have splash damage when they hit. I'm talking about Destiny's playstyle here. On the blink nerf: So what if the flavor-of-the-month "best" blink build is unaffected by this nerf? Now protoss can't even represent the threat that they might attack prior to +2. The consequence is that zerg knows he can safely drone for longer. This also breaks one-base blink stalker play on XNC which is also popular. The blink nerf effectively rules out a wide variety of earlier-hitting blink-pressure builds, thereby making it easier for zergs to predict how long they can drone in safety. As for your PvP comments, I can tell you aren't a protoss and that you're talking out of your ass there. The consequences for PvP at all but the very highest levels of play are negligible. Really, this patch has hardly anything of real interest for NA and EU protoss, and certainly isn't a significant protoss buff. The protoss buffs are there, but they're pretty minor in practice and I doubt that they will shift the metagame at all. The nerfs on the other hand -- especially the blink nerf -- will have an impact.
LOL @ people talking metagame nonsense
|
When you built a second robo you still use it for the more valuable robo units.
How many rax does terran have to build before they get enough rax production to start building reapers out of a few of them? It never happens because reapers are niche units and no matter how many rax you have, you'll always build marines, marauders and ghosts after the early game. It's the same logic with robos: no matter how many you have, it's better to build colossus and observers. Unless as I noted above you get ~5 colossus and ~5 observers out on the map; then you can throw in immortals and warp prisms. But I've rarely seen a protoss achieve that.
|
Only usable? I think the Koreans at the GSL and the recent "Slayers Hellion Trend" proved that hellions are INSANELY strong against any race.
You understand that with "usable" I mean as good as standard builds, right? And honestly, even that is overselling it, mech just flat out isn't as good as the the standard TvP build, and it's "meh" compared to marine/tank in TvZ. It only works better when opponents just aren't countering it properly (which is pretty common now because it's pretty new). The only matchup it truely excels in (aka replaces the standard build) is TvT.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
