EPTLove how people keep praising the HSM speed buff LOL, with golden comments like "I will be so scared of ravens from now on!". Ok.... right.
I think rax build time increase is rediculous, Will they have to do 11rax to compensate or what?
[D] Patch 1.4 and its implications - Page 11
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
Love how people keep praising the HSM speed buff LOL, with golden comments like "I will be so scared of ravens from now on!". Ok.... right. I think rax build time increase is rediculous, Will they have to do 11rax to compensate or what? | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:10 galivet wrote: When you built a second robo you still use it for the more valuable robo units. How many rax does terran have to build before they get enough rax production to start building reapers out of a few of them? It never happens because reapers are niche units and no matter how many rax you have, you'll always build marines, marauders and ghosts after the early game. It's the same logic with robos: no matter how many you have, it's better to build colossus and observers. Unless as I noted above you get ~5 colossus and ~5 observers out on the map; then you can throw in immortals and warp prisms. But I've rarely seen a protoss achieve that. You build as many warp prisms as you need, you don't spam them out. No different to BW. I hate the blink nerf for PvP. I loved blink builds, the micro battle was fun. That, along with immortal buff and vision-nerf will just make it robo vs robo, eventually into colossus spam-fest; the very reason I go blink stalkers. It seems a much safer bet than SG openings anyhow... The GS fix, and the immortal/warp prism buffs, will make collosi much worse in PvP. Not to mention stargate tech. | ||
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Lasbike
France2888 Posts
To the good zergs out there (let's say..masters ?) : Do you use Ultralisks in your games ? If not, why ? And do you think this patch (-15 sec build time) will change anything about that ? | ||
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BigJoe
United States210 Posts
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galivet
288 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:14 Yaotzin wrote: The GS fix, and the immortal/warp prism buffs, will make collosi much worse in PvP. Not to mention stargate tech. How are immortals going to be taking down colossus in PvP? A one-base colossus push is usually zealot-heavy. How are the immortals going to get in range of the colossus with all of those zealots in the way? The colossus does still have the longer range by far and it can cliff-walk away from any immortals that somehow get close. Meanwhile the guy who is building a large number of immortals has nothing to do splash damage against his opponent's zealots...and zealots do great versus immortals. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:27 galivet wrote: How are immortals going to be taking down colossus in PvP? A one-base colossus push is usually zealot-heavy. How are the immortals going to get in range of the colossus with all of those zealots in the way? The colossus does still have the longer range by far and it can cliff-walk away from any immortals that somehow get close. Meanwhile the guy who is building a large number of immortals has nothing to do splash damage against his opponent's zealots...and zealots do great versus immortals. With a warp prism that handily also got buffed  Toooons of colossi will still melt anything on the ground, but the changes slow down that point to like 5+ colossi. That makes going collo both more risky, and opens you up to a simple tech switch to air from your opponent. Also one might actually be able to expand without a 2collo push killing you which would be nice ! | ||
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On August 26 2011 05:49 kawaiiryuko wrote: Well, the +5 sec on the rax will slow the hellion harass by at least 5 seconds.  So, as a zerg, I can always look forward to that. The 5s on barracks will have no impact at all on standard factory timings, as you wait for the gas anyway, not the barracks completion. | ||
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galivet
288 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:29 Yaotzin wrote: With a warp prism that handily also got buffed If that were true then we'd be seeing that tactic in play already. If your plan is to use prisms drop immortals on top of colossus, then the +1 range isn't doing anything for you. It's funny how people's minds seem to work. Is this how you think? 1. I don't like colossus-centric PvP 2. Immortals got buffed. 3. The new immortals must counter colossus-heavy PvP styles! Or, 1. 1-1-1 tank/banshee is overpowered! 2. Immortals got buffed. 3. The new immortals must be Blizzard's answer to stopping 1-1-1! Thanks blizzard! These are non-sequiturs. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:12 KaiserJohan wrote: I hate the blink nerf for PvP. I loved blink builds, the micro battle was fun. That, along with immortal buff and vision-nerf will just make it robo vs robo, eventually into colossus spam-fest; the very reason I go blink stalkers. It seems a much safer bet than SG openings anyhow... Love how people keep praising the HSM speed buff LOL, with golden comments like "I will be so scared of ravens from now on!". Ok.... right. I think rax build time increase is rediculous, Will they have to do 11rax to compensate or what? I'm guessing blink will still be standard in PvP, but u will probably have to open robo first. Which dosen't change too much as most ppl go RoboTwilight nowadays. It just makes the blink all-in probably not viable (which u may care about) | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:42 galivet wrote: If that were true then we'd be seeing that tactic in play already. If your plan is to use prisms drop immortals on top of colossus, then the +1 range isn't doing anything for you. It is but it's risky with prisms being so weak. It's also only really available for a small timing, eg a 2 collo push. Hopefully that timing is extended now. Don't need to drop on top either, indeed that's bad as zealots can attack you. Drop behind somewhere. It's funny how people's minds seem to work. Is this how you think? No.. Immortals have always countered low numbers of collo. If you don't get a sentry when rushing collo, an immortal user can push and kill you. All I'm saying is that with improvements to immortal and its shuttle, and a nerf/fix to collo (GS splash thing), that makes the relationship just a little more in favor of immortal. That makes War of the Worlds less viable. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:21 Lasbike wrote: I don't know what to think about the Ultralisk's change. To the good zergs out there (let's say..masters ?) : Do you use Ultralisks in your games ? If not, why ? And do you think this patch (-15 sec build time) will change anything about that ? so people like me I guess  Yes Im using ultralisks right now in ZvT and ZvP, but only very lategame, when I already have 10+ Infestors and need a unit that is good with infestors. So either banelings, ultras or Broodlords. (depending on what you want exactly... generally broodlords, but on open maps where you need more mobility Ultras, and against bio banelings) As is right now, you can't have Ultras in time to defend with them and you can only "rush" them (13min mark is the earliest you can plant your ultra den I think) if you go like pure zergling into mass infestor into fast hive, which is a quite vulnerable style. As I see pure Ultras right now, they are on T3 tech, but behave like T2.5... They are neither unique (roaches fill a similar role) nor strong on their own, so at the time you go hive, you don't really want Ultras, because they are barely ever what you need. I would even go as far as to make the ultra den cheaper, if I were blizzard, as all the standard compositions deal with ultras fairly well (zealots/archons/blink stalkers are OK, immortals, void rays, dts very good; marines, tanks, thors OK, marauder very good; roaches good) and early Infestor/Ultra is undoable due to gascosts. I guess those are just my 2c's but I believe a lot of zerg players don't use ultras at all... | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 07:00 branflakes14 wrote: I honestly can't see the Ultralisk change making the slightest bit of difference, especially when you consider that you can make a dozen of them at the same time anyway. Remaxing on ultras gets you them 15s earlier. Pretty significant. | ||
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Ponyo
United States1231 Posts
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dangerjoe
Denmark1866 Posts
On August 25 2011 22:33 Huntz wrote: Does anyone actually know if the guardian shield bug fix is a buff? What's to say it wasn't reducing damage more than it should have? Well, you could be right, but I'm pretty sure Guardian Shield is meant to be better against Siege Tanks because of the 1/1/1. Then again, what do I know.. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
It can kinda go after colossus too. Its too bad we probably won't see probably still won't see WP immortal micro.. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
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WArped
United Kingdom4845 Posts
On August 26 2011 06:21 Lasbike wrote: I don't know what to think about the Ultralisk's change. To the good zergs out there (let's say..masters ?) : Do you use Ultralisks in your games ? If not, why ? And do you think this patch (-15 sec build time) will change anything about that ? I think it's purely for reinforcing, 15 seconds is ridiculously significant in a push, especially against Protoss. Sometimes you get into a situation where you think they take way too long to spawn and just spam roaches. As a man that uses Ultras in PvZ, I am pretty happy about it. | ||
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dog4
Canada36 Posts
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Scheme
United Kingdom210 Posts
Hellion do 8 dmg + 6 vs light with bfh being only 5 pt added thats 19 dmg 19x2 = 38 < 40 so you would need 3 to one shot, maybe I got some numbers wrong? My point is that people drop with 4 hellion anyway so there shouldnt be too much difference...perhaps the damage will be less to which people will find its an acceptable level of harassement. | ||
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