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ZikO
United Kingdom27 Posts
thanks for the file and the program. I was looking for something like this. I had to remove camera from the key 3 because it was confusing me a little bit. I accidantely press it and my viewport goes away >.<. Of course, the key 1 is no longer a viewport on any Xel'Naga towers but a proxy Pylon, so is 6. Depending where my hand is, I use eirher 1 or 6 ;p. I must say that learning this is more complicated that I expected but I can feel like I am using much more CTRL groups and faster. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
I can see why the camera on 3 would be confusing. It's actually harder for my hand to reach 3 than 2 or 4, so I put the camera there instead (figuring I'll be accessing control groups more often). I'm also thinking of making Caps Lock function like Ctrl, so I don't have to rotate my hand as far to replace control groups. Some people have PMed me asking if I'll make a version of this layout for HotS. Absolutely! No worries. | ||
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mtszyk
21 Posts
But I like a lot of yours better, so I'm just going to take it with some slight modifications ^^. Great job! It's awesome. | ||
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ZikO
United Kingdom27 Posts
When you say rolling camera what do you exactly mean? Do you want to jump from one camera to another by rolling a mouse button? I don't know if it's possible. I did not see any command which let you jump from one camera to another, something like hitting BACKSPACE cases to jump between Command Centres. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
A: set camera point 1 S: Main Base Cam D: Second Base Cam F: Third Base Cam Z: Fourth Base Cam X: Fifth Base Cam C: Camera Point 1 So, in order to scroll through all your bases, you just tap your fingers down your keyboard. The first key sets camera point 1, and the last returns you to it, allowing you to toggle through all your bases incredibly fast and accurately. If you were, say, doing muta harass, when you hit C you'd be looking back at the exact same spot, making the return one easy motion instead of having to cycle cameras and then double-click your control group. The way I'm currently trying to make it is so Space+Q acts as Ctrl+Q. Space/Ctrl is used in combination with QWE ASDF to recall the cameras, and Alt is used to set them. This way, you don't have to move your fingers hardly at all, just pressing down space with your thumb and suddenly all your unit command become cameras, all right under your fingertips. This leaves two cameras available for watch towers, ramps, or proxy pylons, which would be assigned to ~ and 1. The problem is trying to use shift+inject with this for Zerg. Inject is on E, and holding shift+space+cycling through those letters is a pain, and doesn't register properly. If Shift was added as a mouse button, that could work, but I don't know if pressing ctrl while holding shift will register as Shift+E and Ctrl+E. I think it won't, it will register and Ctrl+Shift+E, which breaks the whole thing. The primary solution would be to not have inject command and the cameras overlap. However, that starts to get confusing, and you need 6 cameras for this to work, since injecting 5 bases is the minimum for lategame. The other option is to remove the set and recall buttons (Q is set Camera 1, F is recall Camera 1). I could set the cameras to Space/Ctrl QW ASDF, leaving E out entirely. If Ctrl+Shift behaves as Shift (and thus just ignores ctrl) for the purpose of unit commands, space could become Ctrl+Shift, and one could simply hold space bar, press E, and then cycle the cameras (they'd be set to Ctr+Shift, which would then no longer ignore the Ctrl command). I think this is the best option, even though it requires double-tapping a control group to return to the original camera location. To be honest, I hardly ever find myself wanting to return to where my camera was before macroing or responding to base threats, so this may actually be a boon. Anyway, ZikO, Backspace is currently set to the space bar, MUCH easier to reach. But space bar is inconsistent on which cc/hatch/nex it places your camera at. Setting individual cameras without any finger reaching like I'm trying to make will allow you to respond to baneling mineral line drops half a second faster, which is the difference between 2 dead probes and 10. Against multipronged harass, it can allow for very quick toggling for super-multitasking. I'm also changing where tech structures are placed, instead of having their own hotkey, they are placed on the CC/Nex/Hatch keys, so you can tab to them when needed, leaving more room for harass. Two problems with Ctrl+Shift both being assigned to space bar: 1) It pushes the bounds of the terms of service. It's supposed to be 1 button = one action. While that's still true -- space E behaves as shift E, space Q will be have as Ctrl Q -- the space bar itself is acting as two pressed modifier keys. I'll need to contact Blizzard about this to make sure. 2) Space bar IS used for typing, and changing the function of the key with a third party program (as is required) is going to make this layout a pain. This is why assigning the Shift+Ctrl function to a mouse button may be better. I'll have to play with it to feel it out. -- mtszyk: Hey man, what's different? I'm always curious as to what people come up with, especially if its just plain better than what Optimus 1.2 currently is. | ||
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ZikO
United Kingdom27 Posts
This is at the moment too complicated for me. I have used your standard set with a few modifications because of it's comfort to reach all keys quickly. I still have bases on BACKSPACE. I just use a click on minimap to move to them. I think it's due to my habit. About the injecting, I played Zerg a little bit and yes injecting is important requiring sort of quick access. But ... You do injecting periodically always after certain amount of time. Therefore, I would not worry about injecting as much. I would simply assign injecting either to one of the closest key to BACKSPACE or move BACKSPACE close to E. This way you just spam: base jump -> inject -> click on base as many times as the number of bases. and you are done for a while. I would not need injecting to have as close as any other Hotkeys which require continuous access due to Army or base management. I would also set all Hachteries to one Hotkey and one of the Hatchery to another (does not matter which one unless injecting is done at all bases). By doing this, I'd still have access to all bases making Army quickly and ability to monitor injected Larvas. When it is done, I would just repeat: Base JUMP -> Inject -> Left Click on base again and again, regardless if BASE JUMP is assigned to BACKSPACE or not. As to rolling through bases and Cameras, I would lose control on those. I need to click on minimap. This gives me precision where exactly I am jumping to; usually at the point where I can see Red Exclamation mark, lol  EDIT: Alternatively, you can Hotkey each Queen. I dropped cameras from 2 and 4 and simply made Gr control on them. I have 2-5: 4 gr controls, RTGHVB other gr controls. I would personally use 2 as All Hatcheries 3 for one of the Hatcheries. And RTGH for Queens and have super fast injecting  Zerg does not need as much micro as Terran or Protoss. Zerg needs to make Army super fast. Just make Rely Point at one point on a map and Set camera there. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
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RaKooNs
United Kingdom397 Posts
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enigamI
Canada385 Posts
On November 28 2011 08:31 RaKooNs wrote: Looks really nice however it would be almost impossible to switch from this if you been playing with standard hotkeys for over a year..... This is the problem I have. It seems interesting and more efficient, but the time it takes to break my old habits and to once again be conscious of all my actions, is extremely frustrating. I'm not saying it isn't worth it if you look at the long run, but for more casual players like myself it's hard to justify. I imagine it would be even worse for players coming from a broodwar background... But awesome work. It seems you've really put a lot of careful thought into designing this! | ||
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
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ZikO
United Kingdom27 Posts
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ZikO
United Kingdom27 Posts
On November 28 2011 08:14 FoxyMayhem wrote: Okay, I have working 1.3, but I need to test it to see if certain elements are actually good. That means getting good with it. I've had wrist troubles, so it might be a few more weeks, but I just wanted those watching to know: 1.3 is looking sick! Awesome but you have done main work already m8 | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
question though: I realize this is ultimately up to preference, but, you have "mouse 3" has your production cycle and mouse 4 as queens (as far as zerg is concerned)...does that mean that the hatchery should be on...say...my "forward mouse button" and the queens on my "backward mouse button"?? 'Cause, currently, that's what I have it set to...and, to say the least, it's weird, but my fingers barely move. | ||
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ntvarify
United States331 Posts
Also, to Dhalphir, just pracice in customs until you get it is what I do. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
I would absolutely love to see someone like TLO switch to this. I can't imagine what it would do for him. Probably not before 1.3 is released, though; there are some small but important changes for pro-level players there. Anyway, I put my hatches on back and my queens on forward. Production selection is on the mouse because the next action -- ordering units -- is on the keyboard. By alternating, you can execute actions faster. It's like tapping F and D, versus tapping F twice, you can tap F and D so much faster and easier. As for which goes on forward and which goes on back, it doesn't matter. My brain is weird though, because I see my hatches as my "base", like a foundation, and queens as an extension from that. Like "home" and "other", so home is closer to me (the back button, hatcheries) and queens are further away. I don't think I can explain it any better, it's just a weird emotional mnemonic. @enigamI: It takes 25-40 games to get as good as you were -- you can cut a few down by just practicing opening over and over for about 6-7 games. If you're casual enough so 30 games is more than you play in 2 weeks and have no wrist problems, I doubt the switch is worth it. For more frequent players, the down-time is just 1-3 days, with old habits occasionally popping up over that week. Not too huge of a delay, (assuming you're not going to a tournament). @ntvarify & Dhalphir: Hope it works well! Unlearning isn't the problem so much as learning the new one. If you haven't seen it, I have little phrases and ways to remember the buttons to help you make the transition -- things like 'W'ant 'W'orker, WW, for creating a drone. As for how to learn best, when you sit down to practice for the first time it's best if you practice the opening several time in a row. You know, start a 3rax and make some rine/raud, or 6 pool, or whatever. Quit a bit after the opening is done and restart Knowing those primary commands well makes learning the rest way easier. And remember: most obscure things (like Ultralisk armor) will simply be on F or E. In fact, everything that can be on F and E pretty much is XD. Between knowing the hotkeys used in opening and knowing the obscure stuff (the stuff you won't practice as often in an average game) is either F or E, you've pretty much learned the setup. The biggest obstacle left will be using your control groups, which, if you're like most people who only use 3 or 4, really won't be hard. Good luck guys! <3 @ZikO: Thanks man. | ||
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ntvarify
United States331 Posts
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drgrofl
Canada48 Posts
is........................ AMAIBAIIIBIBIZINGIAZIGFNASG! | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
Edit: Maybe you should introduce a hotkey that allows you to zoom in/out with this setup, ctrl + mouse scroll or the + and - buttons or something similar. If that's possible without reducing the efficiency of the setup, it would be helpful if someone using the setup ever wanted to use the zoom function. | ||
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epij
Germany42 Posts
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