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On December 07 2011 00:44 BlitzerSC wrote:Somebody really must tell me what i did wrong in this game: TvZ on Metalopolis + Show Spoiler +http://www.mediafire.com/?d4c2r40sedr3jr1 I think I played really well in that game ( I'm around diamond level ) but my opponent just went for mass banelings and won. This is so stupid, i need to macro, siege, stim and micro but zerg just builds banelings and a-move my army. From my experience this MU is so frustating ( TvP too btw )... it doesn't matter what i do, my opponents will crush my army with mass banelings or ling no matter what. A lot of people says that if a terran is on equal bases as a zerg he has the advantage but it's just not true. Banelings, muta, and infestors are so cost-effective that it doesn't matter what I throw at him, he will just roll over me. + Show Spoiler +
You don't need to scout that early. Scout with the SCV that builds the Barracks once it finishes. That way you get enough minerals to build the CC while the Factory is finishing. Remember to build the 3rd depot before starting hellion production. You opted to rush for 3 barracks for a quick stim + tank production, but didn't do anything with it. Your tank marine push hit about the same time as mine usually does, but I have my expansion up way earlier and also have more tanks+marines. So clean up your opening build - watch some reactor hellion expands from GSL to get a general idea.
As already noted, you could've had more units. But you also overextended a bit with the first push. You should either try to kill his third or, if he doesn't have one, start pushing at the edge of his creep, take out some creep tumors then fall back, all while taking a third base. You took your third base during a second push, but by that point he was already up to 5 hatcheries. In some situations you may find that it's hard to push - like if he goes double evo before lair. In that case, just start adding medivacs, upgrades and take a third base without pushing aggressively.
Positioning is also important. Take a look at this image. You don't want all your tanks and marines that clumped up because banelings are totally badass, and you don't want all your units pushing so far forward because your zerg opponent can easily surround you there. You want most of your tanks down the ramp shooting as stuff as it's coming down, your marines spread out behind and around the tanks, and a small group of marines + maybe 1 tank pushing forward shooting at the hatchery and the drones, trying to provoke the zerg to try and kill the push.
I couldn't find much more than this. Your macro is good and you're upgrading well. Just fix your opening build and try to not overextend your pushes and you'll be doing much better.
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Hey guys, recently i have trouble on TVZ. I feel i cant win with the marines/tank compo. Mech is okay but i would like to improve myself with playing marines. But I lose all my games.
Basically, I go 1 rax reactor expand and then pump marines and tank for a push at 9/10 minutes while i take B3. But evreytime it fails and the game is over. Because :
-tanks hit spines or evolution chamber and do not damage at all. It allows for the zerg to temporize as well and he can crush me with mass lings.
-I dont know where i have to set up my rally point.
-At this time, most of zerg have a macro hatch and i cant deal with their massive pop.
-If i try to back off, he catch me unsiege and i lose all my army for nothing.
-my micro sucks.
I know the purpose of this push is not really to do damage but forcing zerg to make units, but if i lose all my army (which is everytime the case), he can just counter me with his units and i dont have enough stuff at home to deal with. And then, he can do whatever he wants.
But if i can defend, i dont know what to do. If i try to push, i just get crushed by mass lings/blings even with good upgrades and if i camp too long....i get crushed as well.
Basically, what am i suppose to do after the 10 minutes push? zerg can defend easily my drops with mutas or just speedlings. is my build order or timing push bad?
Here a replay : http://drop.sc/70170
Im diamond.
(sorry for my poor english)
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I want to say thanks to iAmJeffReY, who kicked me in the ass. My TvP became a psychological problem and was unwinnable but now I got into Master. Though I still can't figure out what to do against Protoss in endgame. I had some good experiences with 4-5 reactored factories to reinforce BFHs which obliterate Zaelot armys in seconds, though this is a bit gimmicky.
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On December 05 2011 07:12 Gamegene wrote:
How do you micro Ghosts effectively?
In the last couple TvP's I've had, the EMP round has felt very delayed, and by the time it hits where I selected the high templar had gotten away. There are also moments where my Ghosts will keep moving foward before firing their Snipe/EMP, even if they're in range.
I'd love to hear how other Terrans control their ghosts o:
Alternate EMP and the move command on your entire control group of Ghosts rapidly. That way all of your Ghosts move towards the target together.
If you cast a single EMP thats outside of your Ghosts' range, only one Ghost from your control group will move forward to cast the spell. It's a good idea to get your entire control group moving just in case the Ghost moving forward gets killed.
It's important to use the move command instead of the attack-move command, because if a unit comes within auto-attack range of the Ghost, it will pause to make regular attacks until all enemy units within range are dead before EMPing. The absolute worst thing you could do is Attack-Move-Shift-EMP. You can prevent this by turning "Hold Fire" on, but in that mode your Ghost will run away if he's attacked...which is the exact opposite you want if you're diving in to EMP.
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On December 08 2011 06:28 corvaleur wrote:
I want to say thanks to iAmJeffReY, who kicked me in the ass. My TvP became a psychological problem and was unwinnable but now I got into Master. Though I still can't figure out what to do against Protoss in endgame. I had some good experiences with 4-5 reactored factories to reinforce BFHs which obliterate Zaelot armys in seconds, though this is a bit gimmicky.
How does one kick another one in the ass, good sir, if I may ask? Is this a good thing?
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On December 08 2011 06:05 Yohsc2 wrote:Hey guys, recently i have trouble on TVZ. I feel i cant win with the marines/tank compo. Mech is okay but i would like to improve myself with playing marines. But I lose all my games. Basically, I go 1 rax reactor expand and then pump marines and tank for a push at 9/10 minutes while i take B3. But evreytime it fails and the game is over. Because : -tanks hit spines or evolution chamber and do not damage at all. It allows for the zerg to temporize as well and he can crush me with mass lings. -I dont know where i have to set up my rally point. -At this time, most of zerg have a macro hatch and i cant deal with their massive pop. -If i try to back off, he catch me unsiege and i lose all my army for nothing. -my micro sucks. I know the purpose of this push is not really to do damage but forcing zerg to make units, but if i lose all my army (which is everytime the case), he can just counter me with his units and i dont have enough stuff at home to deal with. And then, he can do whatever he wants. But if i can defend, i dont know what to do. If i try to push, i just get crushed by mass lings/blings even with good upgrades and if i camp too long....i get crushed as well. Basically, what am i suppose to do after the 10 minutes push? zerg can defend easily my drops with mutas or just speedlings. is my build order or timing push bad? Here a replay : http://drop.sc/70170Im diamond. (sorry for my poor english)
Before commenting about your problem: stay in front of his base with your Hellions, some Zerglings could get past your contain to scout your follow-up if you retreat a bit.
You chose to get an early third yet still pushed out of 2 Barracks; this is incoherent. To put it simply: you have to choose between a strong push, economy or technology. You tried to get the first and the second at the same time, all while running into what is a kind of hard counter to this push, i. e. mass upgraded lings. This is why your push got crushed.
You had him Hellion contained, he did not have a third, you got an early third, so there was simply no reason to try to push, especially with only 2 Barracks producing (you need one more Reactor Barracks to have a decent-sized army) and an expand on the way. Pushing at this moment was a strategic mistake.
You then lost because you got heavily outupgraded (2-2 Zerglings against 0-1 Marines). Zerglings with superior upgrades simply murder Marines, you should try to avoid fights with inferior upgrades against mass lings unless you're forced to defend somewhere. You started your second EB and 1 armor by the 17' mark; this is way too late against any kind of play style, but this one (ling/infestor) will punish it even harder. Basically, your late upgrades were an auto-loss, because it makes his Zerglings way more cost-efficient than they should be had you even upgrades. Remember to click on his Zerglings whenever you can to check his upgrades.
So, what to do against this kind of Zerg play? Upon scouting mass upgraded lings play (you should have clicked on his constructing building at 7'45, you would have seen he got dual Evolution Chamber, which is a sign) which usually leads to infestors, immediately throw down two EBs and keep up with upgrades. Fortunately enough, Zergs don't have Chronoboost and need Hive to get 3/3, so you should eventually catch up. Against this style, build an early third the way you did, but be careful if he goes for some kind of 2/2 timing à la Nestea vs MVP @ Blizzcon on Shakuras Plateau (not the final series).
About your second push, be very careful against ling/infestors. It was really reckless to push on his creep with your Marines in a ball while he had full sight of your army; at this point, he could have obliterated you with giant Fungals had he chosen to rush you straightaway. Since you had some time, spread and split your Marines better, you still had decent-sized clumps of Marines for his Fungals.
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I don't fully understand correct reactions after opening with a 1 rax gasless fe in TvP. I can perform the build and see the pros transitions, but don't understand which follow up to choose based on what I scout.
I've noticed a few main follow ups from the 3 rax 2 refinery stage http://www.sc2planner.com/#TaaaaoEaaoFaaajoCoEfaoAajajoFoFap4oDoDjaaccjfaoCp10jjja :
Option 1 - my favourite/default
Factory, Tech Lab on Rax then Stim
Starport, Reactor on Factory
Switch reactor and make medivacs
http://www.sc2planner.com/#TaaaaoEaaoFaaajoCoEfaoAajajoFoFap4oDoDjaaccjfaoCp10jjjaoIfaaoEoPp5jjaaiKaaoEp6jjjfaaoKoSaaoEp5jjjaaoEfjjjaaiBaaoEjjjaa
Option 2
Reactor, 2x Tech Labs
Constant marines & marauders, Stim then Concussive
Eventually Factory, Starport, medivacs
Option 3
5 raxes before more than 1 add on and before factory
When is each follow up most suited? Specifically, is it safe to tech quickly to medivacs with bunkers (option 1) when facing/expecting a 6 gate or should add ons before factory be used? What about a 1 base 3 gate robo immortal gateway push? When would you go to 5 naked rax instead adding add ons, or is that a stylistic rather than a scouting reactive choice?
I don't get this stage of the match up at all :-s
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I am having trouble vs Z
I almost always open with reactor hellions FE. Unless I can kill the Z or do serious damage around the first timing push at 10 min.
Could you please have a look at the rep and see if you can find any suggestions
http://www.mediafire.com/?6ldsecg9d9v2ect
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Who are the best Terran streamers out there currently? Ones that provide some good commentary and solid macro play?
Everytime I look at the featured stream list there's normally not more than 1 or 2 Terrans and now with TLO having switched to Zerg im not really sure who out there is good to watch for new builds/strats.
I figured this was a decent enough place to ask, thanks.
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Best Terran Streamers in my opinion are: Sterling, Kyhol, DeMuslim, and Warden. Other than Kyhol, the others don't stream that often but when they do they are great streams. Don't forget about Trump!
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
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Demuslim is a very good streamer, but doesn't stream all that often. Unfortunately, there aren't too many good english speaking terrans right now, so you have to either watch the korean streams or Trump and Sterling (who are great streamers, don't get me wrong). Jinro streams, but doesn't speak.
Oh, yeah, there's also Drewbie, but he usually streams morning hours here.
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I am having trouble playing terran in TvP matchup, (partially the reason I switched to toss), and was trying to figure out, what is considered a good "trade" a handful of units and medivacs for half of his army? I really want to possibly start playing terran again but I need kind of a basis that I can work off of.
Btw, I am a gold terran and suck at this game. (most of the time beat plats but still not plat yet)
EDIT: (I watch so many replays and streams of pro terrans it hurts my head thinking about it.)
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On December 09 2011 01:15 FirstGear wrote:I don't fully understand correct reactions after opening with a 1 rax gasless fe in TvP. I can perform the build and see the pros transitions, but don't understand which follow up to choose based on what I scout. I've noticed a few main follow ups from the 3 rax 2 refinery stage http://www.sc2planner.com/#TaaaaoEaaoFaaajoCoEfaoAajajoFoFap4oDoDjaaccjfaoCp10jjja : Option 1 - my favourite/default Factory, Tech Lab on Rax then Stim Starport, Reactor on Factory Switch reactor and make medivacs http://www.sc2planner.com/#TaaaaoEaaoFaaajoCoEfaoAajajoFoFap4oDoDjaaccjfaoCp10jjjaoIfaaoEoPp5jjaaiKaaoEp6jjjfaaoKoSaaoEp5jjjaaoEfjjjaaiBaaoEjjjaaOption 2 Reactor, 2x Tech Labs Constant marines & marauders, Stim then Concussive Eventually Factory, Starport, medivacs Option 3 5 raxes before more than 1 add on and before factory When is each follow up most suited? Specifically, is it safe to tech quickly to medivacs with bunkers (option 1) when facing/expecting a 6 gate or should add ons before factory be used? What about a 1 base 3 gate robo immortal gateway push? When would you go to 5 naked rax instead adding add ons, or is that a stylistic rather than a scouting reactive choice? I don't get this stage of the match up at all :-s
Option 2 is my favorite. It gives you a good mix of units and tech.
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Med-high master terran: how do you handle zealot heavy toss armies lategame (3-3 tossgrades)? If I go too rine heavy lategame, I die to storm + collo splash damage. I try to kite, but with the legspeed and everything following I just lose. I always try to have around 6 medivacs and I try to emp everything.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:35 dente wrote:
Med-high master terran: how do you handle zealot heavy toss armies lategame (3-3 tossgrades)? If I go too rine heavy lategame, I die to storm + collo splash damage. I try to kite, but with the legspeed and everything following I just lose. I always try to have around 6 medivacs and I try to emp everything.
Mid-low master terran here.
I've found in my experience that as you get towards the lategame, marauders become more important than marines, since they dodge storms more easily, are stronger against colossus, have concussive shell, and use the same infrastructure ghosts. Although marauders kill chargelots frighteningly slow, kiting heavily is acceptable-- you'll be relying on vikings and ghosts to deal with his splash damage.
I still make marines in the lategame, but only for support dps and drops. I also make plenty of ghosts.
Part of the issue is that the best places to engage for terran (open area, good concaves, splash is dodgeable) make melee units stronger-- without a choke, chargelots scale up to larger numbers than usual, since more of them can attack at once.
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you are supposed to have basically all marine armys vs storm collosi chargelot and have heavy vikings while kiting
when you kite you outdistance the slower collosi and storms. storms are VERY VERY slow and it requires more skill on the terran but thats just how it is.
the other option is a banshee viking transition since toss is rather weak to banshee lategame after switching into chargelots
User was temp banned for this post.
User was temporarily forum banned for this post.
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On December 09 2011 05:55 ohokurwrong wrote:
you are supposed to have basically all marine armys vs storm collosi chargelot and have heavy vikings while kiting
when you kite you outdistance the slower collosi and storms. storms are VERY VERY slow and it requires more skill on the terran but thats just how it is.
the other option is a banshee viking transition since toss is rather weak to banshee lategame after switching into chargelots
also dont do this... this is how you lose to chargelots get heavier marine counts or my fav a few thors to get the zels caught up like usher
also battlecruisers are going to be baller. yamato the collosi which basically 1 hits them and go to town on the zels
BC's are an amazing SPECIFIC unit that needs be used more late game pvt. there isnt really a unit that works vs BC. yes void works but voids are horrid vs marines so the BC is ok floating over the marine balls
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Hey guys, recently been having trouble with this new zerg style of ling festor ultra. Just need an idea of the composition i need vs this.
Atm im going the standard rine seige tank with ghosts mixed in, but i just keep getting rolled.
My macro etc is fine, im just losing every engagement and i have a feeling it's because my unit comp is trash.
Maybe my micro needs some work, particularly my ghost control but anyways any feedback on unit comp would be much appreciated 
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On December 09 2011 06:29 Norris_is_GODLY wrote:Hey guys, recently been having trouble with this new zerg style of ling festor ultra. Just need an idea of the composition i need vs this. Atm im going the standard rine seige tank with ghosts mixed in, but i just keep getting rolled. My macro etc is fine, im just losing every engagement and i have a feeling it's because my unit comp is trash. Maybe my micro needs some work, particularly my ghost control but anyways any feedback on unit comp would be much appreciated
Marine/Tank is fine. Show a replay and we can see what's happening. Traditionally you're going to be using your tanks to kill threats to marines such as infestors and banelings, and your marines to kill everything else.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png)
Sterling
