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On December 04 2011 08:31 huehuehuehue wrote:http://drop.sc/6778820 minute TvP game on Tal'Darim Altar, he goes 4gate i go 1rax expand and hold it off. Then he expands and eventually i lose to his army. Can anyone look at this replay and point out some things that i'm doing wrong?
Peanut Butter already helped you a bit, but I'd like to add the simle advice of rushing for a Starport as soon as you know you're safe against any kind of ground attack. Those first 2 medivacs are *crucial* for claiming map control and preventing Protoss from expanding/teching too much to catch up after 1-basing for too long, and if he techs to colossi you *need* the viking production.
On December 04 2011 10:14 tributine wrote:
I need help. I am having difficulty battling the Ling Bling Muta. I read somewhere that Siegetank, Thor, Marine is good against such a build however it usually ends with, thors getting magic boxed. Marines getting Bling'd leaving my sieges vulnerable to Mutas. Also after a certain number of zergling's my sieges just get overwhelmed. When this occurs do I have my Marines attack the mutas? The lings? The blings? Also If i do hold off the attack, My population usually takes awhile to get back up but its almost as if the Zerg opponent can reproduce his army almost instantaneously. :S Is it worth poking zerg? or should it be ended with one push.
The Thors should not be the muta-killing part of the army. Thors are meant to discourage the Zerg from stacking mutas to snipe tanks. If he magic boxes the Thors, that means your Marines can pick them off easily.
Your problem of being overwhelmed could mean a number of things. You could be attacking into the wrong position, you could be falling behind in macro or upgrades. You typically want a very focused build meant to push at a very set time (for example, reactor hellion into push with 3 tanks + stim + shields, or a double ebay build where you push when 1/1 finishes and when 2/2 finishes), and you need to focus hard on not getting supply blocked and constantly making units. When attacking you should always stim a few marines forward so that the zerg doesn't catch your army un-sieged. Try to force the zerg army through a narrow choke to increase the effectiveness of your tanks. Make sure to target banelings with tanks and split your marines.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
I played a game in the CSL today and got rolled by the one strategy in TvZ I didn't practice against. How exactly do I deal with ling infestor? Every time I try to push against it I either get counter attacked or crushed by all the mass lings surrounding my marines meaning fungals becoming more powerful even with spreading. Am I supposed to turtle up against that style and basically bait late game when my army will be more powerful with more tanks/marines/ghosts/maybe marauders if he goes Ultra?
It just feels useless pushing forward as they just stockpile minerals and remake like 40 lings at once, so I know I'm making quite a bit mistake strategically.
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On December 04 2011 10:14 tributine wrote:
I need help. I am having difficulty battling the Ling Bling Muta. I read somewhere that Siegetank, Thor, Marine is good against such a build however it usually ends with, thors getting magic boxed. Marines getting Bling'd leaving my sieges vulnerable to Mutas. Also after a certain number of zergling's my sieges just get overwhelmed. When this occurs do I have my Marines attack the mutas? The lings? The blings? Also If i do hold off the attack, My population usually takes awhile to get back up but its almost as if the Zerg opponent can reproduce his army almost instantaneously. :S Is it worth poking zerg? or should it be ended with one push.
REPLAY!!!!!!!!
Once again, I am only diamond, but this is how I see it. Marine Tank is pretty good mid-game, and I believe you should only get thors when your opponent has a large number (I say more than 15) mutalisks, since marines are really good against mutas by themselves. The key is to keep your entire army together, so that no element can get picked off (I.E. Don't run your marines away from your tanks). I would also have to say that your tanks should target the blings, as your marines can handle the zlings and mutas. A replay would help a lot....
Edit: Andreas got it before me
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On December 04 2011 11:30 Qikz wrote:
I played a game in the CSL today and got rolled by the one strategy in TvZ I didn't practice against. How exactly do I deal with ling infestor? Every time I try to push against it I either get counter attacked or crushed by all the mass lings surrounding my marines meaning fungals becoming more powerful even with spreading. Am I supposed to turtle up against that style and basically bait late game when my army will be more powerful with more tanks/marines/ghosts/maybe marauders if he goes Ultra?
It just feels useless pushing forward as they just stockpile minerals and remake like 40 lings at once, so I know I'm making quite a bit mistake strategically.
I feel your pain (this has happened to me more than once). The key thing to note is that a ling infestor player has no spire until late game, which immediatly opens up a lot of drop play (Just make sure your drop doesn't get fungalled). Ghosts are the key; you need to get great EMP's off against infestors. I almost suggest, if the situation allows for it, you get a heavy compostion of tanks and have them lead, with your marines behind your first few tanks (Since Zerglings are melee your marines will be able to attack them before they get the tanks, and the tank range makes it harder for the zerg to get the fungals off). I also suggest you get some form of detection to spot burrowed infestors trying to sneak up on your tanks and drop IT's (I see Destiny do it on his stream all the time). This is just how I deal with it, and if someone out there knows a better way, please share your secret 
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I am just getting back into SC2.
Can anyone give me a solid all around Terran build that will help me learn the ins and outs of this game and also make me a better player in the long-run?
I would like to just use one build for a little while to try and improve my overall game and am looking for a build that will accomplish just that.
Thanks in advance!
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FUCKIN' serious problem here, I'm losing just about all my TvTs where people don't fuck up.
TvT: I tend towards a Bio build (5 rax techtechreactorreactorreactor + reactorport) and always lose to marine-tank. I go for a reaper expand into 3 rax (tech naked naked), pumping marauders and marines while getting stim. I poke when stim is almost done and do damage whenever possible. The problem is sometimes the guy already expanded and has 2 tanks up front stopping me from going in. That's OK I have drops.The problem now is that when my first two vacs pop out there will be some marines and tank shooting my face near my natural. If I drop I can't defend it and I sure as hell can't fight tanks with bio especially when there's a ramp clumping all my stuff up. The general advice is to pick off tanks near watchtowers and piss him off in general to stop his pushes but I don't think i can trade cost effectively if marines are shooting me all the time.
Any help would be MUCH appreciated :D. BTW it seems that marine tank is the only one that gives me trouble. I completely owned a fellow bio player just a while ago.
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On December 04 2011 13:08 Quik17 wrote:
I am just getting back into SC2.
Can anyone give me a solid all around Terran build that will help me learn the ins and outs of this game and also make me a better player in the long-run?
I would like to just use one build for a little while to try and improve my overall game and am looking for a build that will accomplish just that.
Thanks in advance!
A build I used a lot when I was the bronze-silver league was the 2-racks FE into bio (Sorry could only find the vs Toss version of bio, but it is a good overview of the build). It works decently in the lower leagues against all the races, although it doesn't work so well at higher levels vs zerg or a good marine-tank Terran (is still viable vs Toss in higher league). However, I think that it is the best build for people who want to start working with terran.
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On December 04 2011 14:33 leecx wrote:
FUCKIN' serious problem here, I'm losing just about all my TvTs where people don't fuck up.
TvT: I tend towards a Bio build (5 rax techtechreactorreactorreactor + reactorport) and always lose to marine-tank. I go for a reaper expand into 3 rax (tech naked naked), pumping marauders and marines while getting stim. I poke when stim is almost done and do damage whenever possible. The problem is sometimes the guy already expanded and has 2 tanks up front stopping me from going in. That's OK I have drops.The problem now is that when my first two vacs pop out there will be some marines and tank shooting my face near my natural. If I drop I can't defend it and I sure as hell can't fight tanks with bio especially when there's a ramp clumping all my stuff up. The general advice is to pick off tanks near watchtowers and piss him off in general to stop his pushes but I don't think i can trade cost effectively if marines are shooting me all the time.
Any help would be MUCH appreciated :D. BTW it seems that marine tank is the only one that gives me trouble. I completely owned a fellow bio player just a while ago.
You should only go mass bio against mech. That's all there is to it, really...
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How do you hold 1-1-1, tank, marine, viking after going 1rax FE, or CC first on maps like tal darim altar?
I went rax, CC, rax, rax, gas, tech lab, combat shield on cross position. I felt like my marine production was solid and I even sent out a squad to set up a flank, but I still got owned to two tanks, some marines and a viking. Once he starts sieging the natural from below it's kind of over, right? Do I need to send SCVs to hold this? I mean I can probably stand to lose like 10 SCVs given his CC will be late.
I knew what he was doing as I saw the 13 gas and scanned 1-1-1, reactor, tech lab, reactor at around 6 mins, but I still lost 
edit: Combat shield wasn't finished so resources spent teching in that direction was for naught.
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On December 04 2011 21:08 Expez wrote:How do you hold 1-1-1, tank, marine, viking after going 1rax FE, or CC first on maps like tal darim altar? I went rax, CC, rax, rax, gas, tech lab, combat shield on cross position. I felt like my marine production was solid and I even sent out a squad to set up a flank, but I still got owned to two tanks, some marines and a viking. Once he starts sieging the natural from below it's kind of over, right? Do I need to send SCVs to hold this? I mean I can probably stand to lose like 10 SCVs given his CC will be late. I knew what he was doing as I saw the 13 gas and scanned 1-1-1, reactor, tech lab, reactor at around 6 mins, but I still lost edit: Combat shield wasn't finished so resources spent teching in that direction was for naught.
Its incredibly hard, but itll be nice to have a replay.
I can totally imagine the tanks just fucking up your entire nat from low ground, but since you went fe I dont think itll be too bad of an idea to basically check whens hes pushing, and drag all your scvs at the nat along with a shit load of marines to quickly engage the army before it sets up big time. If you properly win the engagement I would imagine that you would be rather ahead.
Once stim is out this would be a lot easier to hold if you manage to survive round one and he tries for round 2.
EDIT: saw your edit - yeah pulling scvs would be your best option - and why combat shield rather than stim? Perhaps someone who calculated the difference would be able to clarify this, but since you are going up against tanks without any tech (yet), wouldnt having a higher speed (similar to speedlings vs marine tank) be better if you went to engage before he sieges?
Im throwing this out since you said that combat shield wouldnt be done anyways (Ive never had the balls to go 1rax FE in TvT)
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On December 04 2011 21:36 padfoota wrote:
Its incredibly hard, but itll be nice to have a replay.
I can totally imagine the tanks just fucking up your entire nat from low ground, but since you went fe I dont think itll be too bad of an idea to basically check whens hes pushing, and drag all your scvs at the nat along with a shit load of marines to quickly engage the army before it sets up big time. If you properly win the engagement I would imagine that you would be rather ahead.
Once stim is out this would be a lot easier to hold if you manage to survive round one and he tries for round 2.
EDIT: saw your edit - yeah pulling scvs would be your best option - and why combat shield rather than stim? Perhaps someone who calculated the difference would be able to clarify this, but since you are going up against tanks without any tech (yet), wouldnt having a higher speed (similar to speedlings vs marine tank) be better if you went to engage before he sieges?
Im throwing this out since you said that combat shield wouldnt be done anyways (Ive never had the balls to go 1rax FE in TvT)
In the GSL the pros seem to go 1rax FE or CC first quite a bit in TvT. I have never seen anyone attempt a 1-1-1 push like what is so common on the ladder. This leads me to believe that it should be easy to hold this off, and I'm just doing something wrong.
Scouting seems to be key so I either:
1) Engage somewhere on the map where he's unsieged
2) Force a few siege/unsiege cycles for my better economy to kick in.
But sending units out the map is super awkward because unless I have good scouting information I need stuff in my base to defend vs banshee, reapers or whatever.
I went for combat shield because stim takes such a long time. I just need to survive in the short term because after that my economy is so good (2base vs 1) I should be able to beat rock with enough scissors Thus combat shield might have an impact, but stim would probably arrive too late.
If I do pull SCVs should I A-move them? Or should I move them in front of his army and have them on auto-repair? The benefit of auto-repair is that they will be taking targeting priority and if they're mass-repairing they'll be able to tank sick dmg while my marines deal it.
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On December 04 2011 22:06 Expez wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 21:36 padfoota wrote:
Its incredibly hard, but itll be nice to have a replay.
I can totally imagine the tanks just fucking up your entire nat from low ground, but since you went fe I dont think itll be too bad of an idea to basically check whens hes pushing, and drag all your scvs at the nat along with a shit load of marines to quickly engage the army before it sets up big time. If you properly win the engagement I would imagine that you would be rather ahead.
Once stim is out this would be a lot easier to hold if you manage to survive round one and he tries for round 2.
EDIT: saw your edit - yeah pulling scvs would be your best option - and why combat shield rather than stim? Perhaps someone who calculated the difference would be able to clarify this, but since you are going up against tanks without any tech (yet), wouldnt having a higher speed (similar to speedlings vs marine tank) be better if you went to engage before he sieges?
Im throwing this out since you said that combat shield wouldnt be done anyways (Ive never had the balls to go 1rax FE in TvT) In the GSL the pros seem to go 1rax FE or CC first quite a bit in TvT. I have never seen anyone attempt a 1-1-1 push like what is so common on the ladder. This leads me to believe that it should be easy to hold this off, and I'm just doing something wrong. Scouting seems to be key so I either: 1) Engage somewhere on the map where he's unsieged 2) Force a few siege/unsiege cycles for my better economy to kick in. But sending units out the map is super awkward because unless I have good scouting information I need stuff in my base to defend vs banshee, reapers or whatever. I went for combat shield because stim takes such a long time. I just need to survive in the short term because after that my economy is so good (2base vs 1) I should be able to beat rock with enough scissors Thus combat shield might have an impact, but stim would probably arrive too late. If I do pull SCVs should I A-move them? Or should I move them in front of his army and have them on auto-repair? The benefit of auto-repair is that they will be taking targeting priority and if they're mass-repairing they'll be able to tank sick dmg while my marines deal it.
For the combat shield vs stim part - you misunderstood me. From what you said regarding that combat shield doesnt finish in time, why not just go for stim instead? It had a much better use in TvT against marine tank style early on if you want to go for the "hit him when hes unsieged", and would be insanely useful against banshees, dropship, hellions (for splitting/killing low numbers fast/chasing them down-ish, you'll have all upgrades when you need do deal with mass amounts) too if you didnt know which build hes going. It might seem like a waste to kill marine but if you are FEing while the opponent isnt, why not throw some mineral dump away?
Regarding the mass repair vs a-move, personally I think that since you are already pushing the panic mode button i dont think the correct mindset during this would be "Im going to run my scvs with mass repair in front of you with my marines not-so-close but not too-far-away so the scvs can take the first hit and tank sick damage" If you manage to pull it off with your marines close enough to take out the tanks BEFORE they siege and rape your scv.....
Sorry I stopped my train of thought there - I just dont think its practical to dance your scvs in front of an army that focuses purely on huge fucking dps and that your best and fastest way to kill him would be to simply have the melee units run in very close and press against the army while the ranged one takes out the key units.
Personally in that situation i would just - Select all scvs, a move, select all marines, a move + micro - the opposing player will probably siege immediately and if he didnt target fire the marines immediately the first shot would most likely be on top of the scv - hurting his marines too. In the time, with enough marine dps + stutterstep, both tanks should go down. If hes a good player in panic mode (u just pulled a shit ton of stuff before he sieged), it would most likely be siege tanks, stutterstep marines back (unable to target fire as fast, causing tanks to hit scvs + his own marines, which also gives you ground to target fire tanks), then try to target with tanks when he realizes the mistake (tanks are gone already, misses time to micro marines...) -> rage quit.
EDIT: I seriously wan to retype this whole crap but I need to do some testing regarding 1rax FE vs rine tank viking
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On December 04 2011 21:08 Expez wrote:How do you hold 1-1-1, tank, marine, viking after going 1rax FE, or CC first on maps like tal darim altar? I went rax, CC, rax, rax, gas, tech lab, combat shield on cross position. I felt like my marine production was solid and I even sent out a squad to set up a flank, but I still got owned to two tanks, some marines and a viking. Once he starts sieging the natural from below it's kind of over, right? Do I need to send SCVs to hold this? I mean I can probably stand to lose like 10 SCVs given his CC will be late. I knew what he was doing as I saw the 13 gas and scanned 1-1-1, reactor, tech lab, reactor at around 6 mins, but I still lost edit: Combat shield wasn't finished so resources spent teching in that direction was for naught.
Flanking isn't enough. What I'd do (especially on tal'darim) is move out with all my marines, throw down some extra barracks and try to intercept him in the middle of the map to make him siege up and slow down his push. If his tanks are too far forward, you can even try to snipe them. Once his push is at your base I think pulling SCVs is a must.
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I like to play mech now in TvZ, it works well for me, but sometimes I get in trouble when the zerg is going ultralisk late game. I dont now if I should keep getting tanks/thors (and hellion to block) or trying to get out some banshees or ghost?
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On December 05 2011 00:54 rod- wrote:
I like to play mech now in TvZ, it works well for me, but sometimes I get in trouble when the zerg is going ultralisk late game. I dont now if I should keep getting tanks/thors (and hellion to block) or trying to get out some banshees or ghost?
Mix in some marauders - cheap, fast build, enough damage. Since ultralisks have a much shorter build time, ghosts are even less viable, and they were really for the broodlords more than for ultralisks, but its not uncommon for the zerg to mix in some broodlords too with ultras (crazy econ style), in which you really just need an insane mix of everything with scv mass repair on the thors.
If you simply want to continue mech, dont use hellions to block - they take too much aoe damage and its much better for you to simply make a wall of thors with scvs repairing behind them....but really, get some marauders.
Banshees are one of the worst late game TvZ units you can rely on as they have no AoE, expensive as fuck, long buildtime, cannot be useful unless in great numbers, and way too easily countered by mutas. If you went banshees you'd be using up your gas ->smaller mech -> lose entire ground -> zerg masses in lings and fucks your whole base.
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On December 05 2011 01:15 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 00:54 rod- wrote:
I like to play mech now in TvZ, it works well for me, but sometimes I get in trouble when the zerg is going ultralisk late game. I dont now if I should keep getting tanks/thors (and hellion to block) or trying to get out some banshees or ghost? Mix in some marauders
Makes little sense to me—you have neither Stim (at first) nor upgrades, which means your Marauders won't be that efficient; and unless you were planning to add Ghosts by lategame, you won't even have enough Lab Barracks in time. Anyway, I never saw any pro going mech switching to Marauder production upon scouting Ultralisks; from what I watched, they simply add more Thors (e. g. Mvp vs HayprO game 3 @ MLG Providence on Metalopolis). Ghosts would be a better choice than Marauders, I think, but you won't always have time to get some Lab Barracks and build Ghosts and bank enough energy to deal with Ultralisks.
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Russian Federation2 Posts
On December 05 2011 00:54 rod- wrote:
I like to play mech now in TvZ, it works well for me, but sometimes I get in trouble when the zerg is going ultralisk late game. I dont now if I should keep getting tanks/thors (and hellion to block) or trying to get out some banshees or ghost?
Research strike cannons prety usefull against ultra also try mixing some ghots from 1-3 rax.
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I can't do anything on the ladder with Terran anymore, was a Diamond before I stopped playing for a few months. Season 4 I'm a platinum and my MMR is matching me against golds now and I'm still losing, no matter the I'm against. I've mainly been doing no gas fast expands into whichever transition i feel is best depending on the race I'm against. I'm having a hard time winning any games right now.
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On December 05 2011 02:56 Crowned wrote:
I can't do anything on the ladder with Terran anymore, was a Diamond before I stopped playing for a few months. Season 4 I'm a platinum and my MMR is matching me against golds now and I'm still losing, no matter the I'm against. I've mainly been doing no gas fast expands into whichever transition i feel is best depending on the race I'm against. I'm having a hard time winning any games right now.
People need to stop pushing gasless expands on people below masters. Holding all ins and 2 base play with a gasless expand requires scouting, reactionary skills, and more macro/micro than a player of your level can handle. I'd stick with 2 rax TvP, 1-1-1 TvT, and even 1-1-1 in TvZ until you can learn to do multiple things at once.
Gasless expands are what pros do, because they can handle it. It's the greediest, without being 'unsafe' build you can do. Why would you in plat expect to be able to hold: roach rush, 4 gate, econ bane bust, 1-1-1 marine tank push, cloakshee harass, bf run bys, proxy marauder, reaper harass, dt rush, 3 gate robo all in, 3 gate blink, collsai 1 base play etc etc
There's a list of strategies that are very strong against 1 rax gasless FE if you don't scout them and change your compo accordingly.
In short, don't listen to people I say. "It'll make you a better play in the long run" crap. Ya, maybe at high high diamond, low masters you can execute things and get better. Anything below, you shouldn't be doing gasless expands.
If you want to still 1 rax expand, reaper expand. You can do it against each race, and it forces you to scout, and go into 3 rax reactionary.
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On December 05 2011 03:09 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 02:56 Crowned wrote:
I can't do anything on the ladder with Terran anymore, was a Diamond before I stopped playing for a few months. Season 4 I'm a platinum and my MMR is matching me against golds now and I'm still losing, no matter the I'm against. I've mainly been doing no gas fast expands into whichever transition i feel is best depending on the race I'm against. I'm having a hard time winning any games right now. People need to stop pushing gasless expands on people below masters. Holding all ins and 2 base play with a gasless expand requires scouting, reactionary skills, and more macro/micro than a player of your level can handle. I'd stick with 2 rax TvP, 1-1-1 TvT, and even 1-1-1 in TvZ until you can learn to do multiple things at once. Gasless expands are what pros do, because they can handle it. It's the greediest, without being 'unsafe' build you can do. Why would you in plat expect to be able to hold: roach rush, 4 gate, econ bane bust, 1-1-1 marine tank push, cloakshee harass, bf run bys, proxy marauder, reaper harass, dt rush, 3 gate robo all in, 3 gate blink, collsai 1 base play etc etc There's a list of strategies that are very strong against 1 rax gasless FE if you don't scout them and change your compo accordingly. In short, don't listen to people I say. "It'll make you a better play in the long run" crap. Ya, maybe at high high diamond, low masters you can execute things and get better. Anything below, you shouldn't be doing gasless expands. If you want to still 1 rax expand, reaper expand. You can do it against each race, and it forces you to scout, and go into 3 rax reactionary.
Appreciate the advice.
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EPT
