EPTWhile he killed the nexus, the protoss player still put up a good fight and the game transitioned into a reasonably standard macro game which Kawaii eventually won.
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 77
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
While he killed the nexus, the protoss player still put up a good fight and the game transitioned into a reasonably standard macro game which Kawaii eventually won. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On November 26 2011 03:53 MysteryHours wrote: So on a large map is there any way to punish a Nexus first or should you just 1 rax FE? I always gasless FE v Toss before 2nd depot, but have not played much this season. gm top master mmr last season. Honestly, after watching White Ra decimate Happy on 1 base with 4 wg Warp prism, I don't even know a good response to this build. Happy didn't even expand (1 base v 1 base) and he lost everything. I think you should just do your best to confuse toss (block bottom of ramp, earlier rax to deny vision with marine) and then macro hard. I really don't think Nexus first can be punished well, at least not with 2 rax given these conditions | ||
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hyduk
Canada11 Posts
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ahuang
United States13 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On November 26 2011 03:53 MysteryHours wrote: So on a large map is there any way to punish a Nexus first or should you just 1 rax FE? I've been doing a 3 rax 1 fac 1 port mara marine tank double medic +1 (long list lol) push vs nexus first or 1 gate FE toss. Hits at 10-1030 with 3tanks, mara marine stim/shields/shells/+1 Off of 14 rax 14 rax build, it's worked so far for me on TDA and shakuras. | ||
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xpiamchris
1 Post
So if I want to do a quick marine marauder push, which upgrades should I go for? I tend to go stimpack first and then push when stim pack finishes... but when I feel like my marine count is higher, I go for combat shields first... But there have also been times when I feel like throwing down an engineering bay or two and then pushing after +1 weapons and stim finish.. I do all of this randomly... Can someone please help me with this? When should I do what and when? And in what combination? stim and +1 weapon? stim and +1 armor? +1 weapon and combat? | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On November 26 2011 11:28 xpiamchris wrote: Hey guys, So if I want to do a quick marine marauder push, which upgrades should I go for? I tend to go stimpack first and then push when stim pack finishes... but when I feel like my marine count is higher, I go for combat shields first... But there have also been times when I feel like throwing down an engineering bay or two and then pushing after +1 weapons and stim finish.. I do all of this randomly... Can someone please help me with this? When should I do what and when? And in what combination? stim and +1 weapon? stim and +1 armor? +1 weapon and combat? tbh if you are pushing without medivacs stim can be as much a curse as a blessing. You shouldn't ever really randomly do something, you should go in with a plan and stick to it, i.e "If he goes nexus first I'll do A, if he FE's I'll do B" etc. Personally if I'm goin for a push without medivacs I'll go conc then combat shields and push as CS finishes. If goin with medivacs I go conc and stim. If you are goin +1, you are going to be pushing either with a more marine heavy force or slightly later simply based on gas constraints. conc is a must.... it makes a huge difference in any fight, what else you take largely depends on what your objective and composition is going to be. Don't be afraid to walk home without engaging if you look at his army and aren't sure whether you can take it, discretion is the better part of valour after all. If you lose you entire army without doing significant enough damage to either his econ or army, a toss can just push and win. Don't rally units in to the fight unless you are in a position to end the game, that is the fatal mistake I make a lot.... its better to do what damage you can with what is already there and then have another force ready to either do a follow up attack to finish the game or to defend the counter push that is likely coming your way soon. | ||
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
1. How do you make hellions work? - I open 2 fact, 1 teched, 1 reactored. I then expand while I try to keep the creep back. They always go roach, and half the time I die at the 9 minute mark to a swarm of around 10 roaches coming into my base. 2. Once a zerg is on 5 bases, can you win anymore? It seems that no matter how many times you kill a ling bling muta army, they remax in seconds. I try dropping, but if mutas don't pick it off before it gets to the base, then there are a gazillion spine crawlers guarding. 3. Once a zerg get's 30+ mutas, how do you defend that? It seems you need unlimited everything to be able to move out on the map, and the moment you do, you lose a base or 2 garaunteed. And the mutas can always get back in time to defend, because you have to slow push across the map, or die to ling bling.. | ||
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MooSlapper
United States113 Posts
How come Terrans only use siege tanks vs Toss if it is part of some all-in strategy? I just can't see how siege tanks could possibly hurt.... they don't have to be a main part of your army, but isn't it nice having a siege tank on the ledge of your wall, shooting toss as they run by? Helping secure your base from attack, even if you just lost a battle and don't have teh troops to defend? When you go to attack enemy base, why not siege a few behind for support? THey rip stalkers to shreds. So, why is pure bio the dogma of TvP? | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
You must have mobility to defeat a toss army. It is different in TvZ and TvT because tanks are so much more powerful against small low hp units. It is very difficult to charge marines at even a small number of seige tanks, so you can spread your army out. But against toss a gateway/robotics army can just roll over small-medium numbers of tanks. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
Basically it is a 2 medivac, 4 marauder, 8 marines drop attack which will be followed by more of the same off 1base. Engy bay, is it worth getting one early only if I see early double gas or gas before barracks? Upgrades, is it worth getting conc and shield? Are faster medivacs better than +10hp this early on in the game? Obviously I would get this upgrades later into the game. Barracks amount and addons, Is 3rax (2TL, 1Reactor) overkill? On 2rax I feel like I am waiting around for the marauders for too long but I don't know whether its faster than building another rax & TL? Also I am building a reactor on factory then switching it to Starport. Is this overkill for this kind of drop? Basically I hate tanks, I hate using them and I hate playing vs them. I like to play bio as I play bio in my other matchups (TvP&Z). I was playing an iEchoic 2fact2port with a twist but I am not having much joy with it lately. Thanksxo | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On November 26 2011 22:30 MooSlapper wrote: heya, How come Terrans only use siege tanks vs Toss if it is part of some all-in strategy? I just can't see how siege tanks could possibly hurt.... they don't have to be a main part of your army, but isn't it nice having a siege tank on the ledge of your wall, shooting toss as they run by? Helping secure your base from attack, even if you just lost a battle and don't have teh troops to defend? When you go to attack enemy base, why not siege a few behind for support? THey rip stalkers to shreds. So, why is pure bio the dogma of TvP? Used to do it myself, but never went past 4 tanks as a rule because it did me more harm than good. As the guy said, mobility. There are some nice timing pushes you can do with tanks tho, some all in, some not. Opened the old reactor rax + techd fact expo with tanks holding back then when i felt passive. Prevented the toss from containing me because of siege and allowed me to punish him if I see a window when he expanded. Also was beautiful in holding all ins and early timing pushes. But really, if chargelots didnt exist in this game tanks would be fucking awesome in TvP. The problem is that chargelots are like oversized zerglings that take so much damage from everything that runs straight into your army, causing your tanks to be useless because A - tanks dont shoot at melee range when in siege mode, and B - cuz the tanks are fucking raping your army harder than it is doing his. Finally, since marines are needed so much in TvP and that the upgrades for bio and mech are different, its just better to get pure bio instead. I would love to see someone make thor hellion raven work in tvp tho, with viking/BC/ghost/marine as support. But the fucking BFH nerf... | ||
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Doja
United States15 Posts
My 3 builds TvP: 2 rax TL then Reactor expo 1) Is it better to go reactor first? 2) I expo around ~40 food. This seems really late to me. Should I be learning a better macro opener? TvZ: Reactor hellion expo into marine tank 1) Should I get a raven vs zerg? It seems good because of creep and burrow roaches tend to wreck me at times, but it seems like no pro's get a raven in this matchup. 2) Is there info that would lead me to keep pumping hellions after the initial 4? TvT: Banshee expo 1) Should I skip cloak? I believe I've heard some casters say a cloak opener is too all in. 2) I have been grabbing 2 cloaked banshees then a raven. At that point I have been getting a couple medivacs and start viking production. I dont really know when to go between medivacs to vikings. Sometimes I get air control but if someone is going straight vikings it seems pretty hard, and I rarely win without air control. General: 1) The 2 rax opener is probably the easiest for me to do. On the others I do slip on macro while microing quite often. Should I be performing simpler builds or should I just keep refining my play and learn to micro/macro at the same time. 2) I've read a few posts that suggest forfeiting games where you get supply blocked before say 75 food, or forfeiting when your minerals exceed 750-1000 in the first 10 minutes. Would this be a good idea for me to implement if improvement is my number one priority? 3) Loads of people seem to give the advice to macro up to 200 and a-move until ~plat level. Should I really be doing this? Thanks in advance | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On November 26 2011 22:30 MooSlapper wrote: heya, How come Terrans only use siege tanks vs Toss if it is part of some all-in strategy? I just can't see how siege tanks could possibly hurt.... they don't have to be a main part of your army, but isn't it nice having a siege tank on the ledge of your wall, shooting toss as they run by? Helping secure your base from attack, even if you just lost a battle and don't have teh troops to defend? When you go to attack enemy base, why not siege a few behind for support? THey rip stalkers to shreds. So, why is pure bio the dogma of TvP? They're too immobile. You'll be stuck on the defensive while giving P a free 3rd base and allow them to amass their death ball. Stalkers are the least of your concerns. Good Protosses usually only make just enough to kill your Vikings. Archons, Colossi, Immortals, Chargelots, those are the problem. Not to mention that Phoenixes can just lift your entire tank line while the P deathball rolls over your army of mostly marines since you used up all that gas in tanks. | ||
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MooSlapper
United States113 Posts
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Bro_Stone
United States510 Posts
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On November 27 2011 02:19 Doja wrote: TvT: Banshee expo 1) Should I skip cloak? I believe I've heard some casters say a cloak opener is too all in. You can consider it if you scout no gas by your opponent. Going no cloak banshee is basically relying on the fact that your opponent won't have Starport tech out by the time your banshee hits. Imo banshee is just so weak without cloak since it's pretty much a free kill for a Viking. | ||
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
On November 27 2011 02:19 Doja wrote: I have a few basic questions. I am silver league. My 3 builds TvP: 2 rax TL then Reactor expo 1) Is it better to go reactor first? 2) I expo around ~40 food. This seems really late to me. Should I be learning a better macro opener? TvZ: Reactor hellion expo into marine tank 1) Should I get a raven vs zerg? It seems good because of creep and burrow roaches tend to wreck me at times, but it seems like no pro's get a raven in this matchup. 2) Is there info that would lead me to keep pumping hellions after the initial 4? TvT: Banshee expo 1) Should I skip cloak? I believe I've heard some casters say a cloak opener is too all in. 2) I have been grabbing 2 cloaked banshees then a raven. At that point I have been getting a couple medivacs and start viking production. I dont really know when to go between medivacs to vikings. Sometimes I get air control but if someone is going straight vikings it seems pretty hard, and I rarely win without air control. General: 1) The 2 rax opener is probably the easiest for me to do. On the others I do slip on macro while microing quite often. Should I be performing simpler builds or should I just keep refining my play and learn to micro/macro at the same time. 2) I've read a few posts that suggest forfeiting games where you get supply blocked before say 75 food, or forfeiting when your minerals exceed 750-1000 in the first 10 minutes. Would this be a good idea for me to implement if improvement is my number one priority? 3) Loads of people seem to give the advice to macro up to 200 and a-move until ~plat level. Should I really be doing this? Thanks in advance General: 1) Keep doing whatever you're doing right now. You want to focus on macroing like it is automatic. Keep refining your play. 2) Well...as long as you don't care that much about ladder points... Just make sure you pop up the replay each time and identify the reason why your money started floating. 3) No this is a bad idea imo. You don't do this at diamond/masters level, so I see no reason to do it at a lower level. I recommend learning to macro while microing, which is much more valuable. It's as easy to just pure macro as it is to do pure micro. Individually they're manageable but the tricky part is both at the same time. | ||
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Boxxer
83 Posts
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37058 Posts
On November 27 2011 16:41 Boxxer wrote: Can anybody point me to a place where I can learn all the timings a terran needs to know, e.g like muta timing, Colo timing etc please. Uhhh...... there's no such thing..... Muta timing and Colo timing, etc. all depends on the situation of each game. If the Z is doing well, he'll go mutas. If the Z wants to surprise you, he'll go mutas. If the Z's like "fuck it, I'm all in," he'll go mutas. There is no real way of telling when an EXACT muta timing will be. Same goes for colossi. Some Ps don't even go colossi if they feel like they don't need it. It all depends on how the game is progressing. Are you behind? Are you ahead? Are you pressuring constantly? No pressure? All these factors add up to whether or not mutas/colossi/etc will hit or not. That being said, the #1 way to learn these timing is to practice a lot, watch your replays and analyze when the timings are for yourself. I'll see if I can help anyways though: Around the 10 minute mark, most Zs like to hit you with muta. If you haven't done any harassments whatsoever, expect 9 minute ish mutas, cause the Z has no reason to play defensive and can tech quickly. Depending on how well you are fighting the Protoss, (like, you're not losing your entire army again and again) most likely colossi will hit around the 13 - 15 minute mark. Just to be safe, make sure you know his unit composition all the time. Scan around the 13 - 15 minute mark, if he's chrono boosting his robotics it's either immortal or colossi. So poke around with your units and see if there are any colossi. But like I've said before, #1 way? Practice, watch replays, learn. GL HF | ||
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