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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:10 Marathi wrote:
Hi guys I'm trying to get my MMM timing attack down to as fast as possible and cut out things that aren't necessary.
Basically it is a 2 medivac, 4 marauder, 8 marines drop attack which will be followed by more of the same off 1base.
Engy bay, is it worth getting one early only if I see early double gas or gas before barracks?
Upgrades, is it worth getting conc and shield? Are faster medivacs better than +10hp this early on in the game? Obviously I would get this upgrades later into the game.
Barracks amount and addons, Is 3rax (2TL, 1Reactor) overkill? On 2rax I feel like I am waiting around for the marauders for too long but I don't know whether its faster than building another rax & TL?
Also I am building a reactor on factory then switching it to Starport. Is this overkill for this kind of drop?
Basically I hate tanks, I hate using them and I hate playing vs them. I like to play bio as I play bio in my other matchups (TvP&Z). I was playing an iEchoic 2fact2port with a twist but I am not having much joy with it lately.
Thanksxo
I'm having some trouble understanding what you're asking for exactly. Is this a strat you're gonna use against all races? Is this a strat that involves you doing nothing but drops? Are you 1 basing the whole time? What exactly are you trying to achieve?
Gonna need replays of you actually doing this stuff or we can't provide much help.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
On November 26 2011 21:01 Qibla wrote:
I'm having the hardest time TvZ
1. How do you make hellions work? - I open 2 fact, 1 teched, 1 reactored. I then expand while I try to keep the creep back. They always go roach, and half the time I die at the 9 minute mark to a swarm of around 10 roaches coming into my base.
2. Once a zerg is on 5 bases, can you win anymore? It seems that no matter how many times you kill a ling bling muta army, they remax in seconds. I try dropping, but if mutas don't pick it off before it gets to the base, then there are a gazillion spine crawlers guarding.
3. Once a zerg get's 30+ mutas, how do you defend that? It seems you need unlimited everything to be able to move out on the map, and the moment you do, you lose a base or 2 garaunteed. And the mutas can always get back in time to defend, because you have to slow push across the map, or die to ling bling..
You're asking excellent questions. These things you are mentioning can be quite a handful to deal with in TvZ. None the less, we can't really help you unless you post replays of you playing.
Mainly because, we don't know if these Zerg attacks work because you're messing something up, or you're doing something completely off the wall that won't really work.
Post replays if you can please :D
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
On November 26 2011 10:07 ahuang wrote:
So my preferred opening against Zerg is a reactored hellion expand in a 3 tank push. Problem is, this seems to be somewhat unoptimal vs some Zerg openings. When should I do this 3 tank timing and when should I wait for a second ball of 6-7 tanks and 1-2 medivacs? My goal of the push is to force units other than mutas and take out the third while putting down a third of my own.
We're gonna need replays in order for us to really help you out. We can't just blindly tell you "yeah this should work," or "nah, this will never work," because we don't know what you are doing/what you are doing wrong.
Please post replays, it will give us much better chances at helping you out
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
On November 25 2011 21:33 S_SienZ wrote:
I have a question about what mindset I should have when it comes to making SCVs. When I first started playing, all I did was make SCVs non-stop. However, recently after watching some streams like Polt's it seems like he only makes just enough SCVs to saturate his bases and makes more after he expands. Is this the way to go about it to get more army?
Errr.... this is really dependent on the player
In Polt's case it could be several things....
a) he realizes how many scvs he needs and stops producing (most likely)
b) he's so focused on micro/macro/economy management that he just kind of forgot about scvs (not very likely but still a possibility)
c) he kept on queueing scvs early on and decided at one point to stop macroing scvs (because once the game becomes intense, it's hard to keep macroing scvs) (medium-likely)
All in all, it's up to you. Do you want to keep making scvs? Go ahead. You don't want anymore scvs? Then stop.
A lot of ppl do eventually realize that they oversaturate and see that their 200/200 is actually like 120/200 cause of 80 scvs, but honestly, it's really just up to the player that should decide when to stop scvs.
I would recommend that you try to keep producing scvs until you see that each base has more than 20ish scvs.
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On November 27 2011 02:19 Doja wrote:
I have a few basic questions. I am silver league.
My 3 builds
TvP: 2 rax TL then Reactor expo
1) Is it better to go reactor first?
2) I expo around ~40 food. This seems really late to me. Should I be learning a better macro opener?
TvZ: Reactor hellion expo into marine tank
1) Should I get a raven vs zerg? It seems good because of creep and burrow roaches tend to wreck me at times, but it seems like no pro's get a raven in this matchup.
2) Is there info that would lead me to keep pumping hellions after the initial 4?
TvT: Banshee expo
1) Should I skip cloak? I believe I've heard some casters say a cloak opener is too all in.
2) I have been grabbing 2 cloaked banshees then a raven. At that point I have been getting a couple medivacs and start viking production. I dont really know when to go between medivacs to vikings. Sometimes I get air control but if someone is going straight vikings it seems pretty hard, and I rarely win without air control.
General:
1) The 2 rax opener is probably the easiest for me to do. On the others I do slip on macro while microing quite often. Should I be performing simpler builds or should I just keep refining my play and learn to micro/macro at the same time.
2) I've read a few posts that suggest forfeiting games where you get supply blocked before say 75 food, or forfeiting when your minerals exceed 750-1000 in the first 10 minutes. Would this be a good idea for me to implement if improvement is my number one priority?
3) Loads of people seem to give the advice to macro up to 200 and a-move until ~plat level. Should I really be doing this?
Thanks in advance
Tvp:
1: No I prefer tech lab first because you can make your marauders + get the conc shells faster.
2: Take your time taking your nat. If you just made your attack/pressured your opponent, and you feel unsafe with the amount of units you have, make some and then expand. Or make a few bunkers in your nat.
TvZ:
1: Pro players, will usually save a few scans so when they push so they can kill creep.
2: I've seen pro players pump more than 4 on long maps. Maybe because of the map distance? I'm not too sure about that one.
TvT:
1) Getting cloak on a banshee is not all in at all. The problem with going banshee with cloak, is that you need to do some harass and the multi tasking for silver league player while harassing with the banshee is extremely hard and you may fall back in macro.
2) It usually depends on what your opponent does. Don't automatically make a Raven after making 2 banshees. Ravens are costly and only get them if it's necessary. (you have marines and he has cloaked banshees)
General:
1: I advice that you focus on improving one part at a time. And although 2 rax is easiest for you, I suggest mastering the reactor hellion, as it is the most common build in TvZ and provides many different options as to what you will do next. Focus on macro. It will help in the long run.
2: Try to not forfeit really. It's much better to have that never give up Korean spirit then to gg prematurely when you haven't really lost. If improvement is your #1 priority, you would know that forfeiting is the worst way to go. (Seriously, where did you hear this lol)
3: Not at all, harass the hell out of your opponent while you are able to macro. That should be your #1 priority.
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I am having trouble with finding a good opening / BO for TvP, anyone have any good options? really need to practice some
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I am switching to Terran from Protoss, I just cannot stand the cheese these days. Feels like Terran is better at holding such things, so I am interested in mech openings in all matchups. With HotS mech seems to be more fun, kind of like in BW almost.
If anyone could tell me some basic build orders for me that opens with mech it would be greatly appreciated!
Also anyone that knows any good mech player that streams? I know of Goody but his VODS is kind ouf outdated.
Plus what hotkeys should I use?
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On November 27 2011 16:54 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 00:10 Marathi wrote:
Hi guys I'm trying to get my MMM timing attack down to as fast as possible and cut out things that aren't necessary.
Basically it is a 2 medivac, 4 marauder, 8 marines drop attack which will be followed by more of the same off 1base.
Engy bay, is it worth getting one early only if I see early double gas or gas before barracks?
Upgrades, is it worth getting conc and shield? Are faster medivacs better than +10hp this early on in the game? Obviously I would get this upgrades later into the game.
Barracks amount and addons, Is 3rax (2TL, 1Reactor) overkill? On 2rax I feel like I am waiting around for the marauders for too long but I don't know whether its faster than building another rax & TL?
Also I am building a reactor on factory then switching it to Starport. Is this overkill for this kind of drop?
Basically I hate tanks, I hate using them and I hate playing vs them. I like to play bio as I play bio in my other matchups (TvP&Z). I was playing an iEchoic 2fact2port with a twist but I am not having much joy with it lately.
Thanksxo I'm having some trouble understanding what you're asking for exactly. Is this a strat you're gonna use against all races? Is this a strat that involves you doing nothing but drops? Are you 1 basing the whole time? What exactly are you trying to achieve? Gonna need replays of you actually doing this stuff or we can't provide much help.
Sorry, this is a TvT strat I am wanting to use and I am aiming to get the attack as fast as possible before too many siege tanks and other defenses are setup. Basically I am just wondering if people had some insight to similar builds and what kind of upgrades they would use/need, the amount of rax, etc.
Expanding I imagine would be situational as to the amount of damage done, if I feel that I can win outright with more reinforcements I will continue to 1base but if I don't do so much damage then I will choose to expand.
I would look to try and outrightly kill him with this first drop or do enough damage where I shouldn't lose. Finish him off with reinforcements or expand depending on the situation.
Hope this helps, will try and get some replays for you in the coming days but not going to have a lot of time to play! 
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On November 28 2011 06:57 xiZE wrote:
I am having trouble with finding a good opening / BO for TvP, anyone have any good options? really need to practice some
6-rax
User was warned for this post
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On November 28 2011 06:57 xiZE wrote:
I am having trouble with finding a good opening / BO for TvP, anyone have any good options? really need to practice some
A random strat I'm trying to make work. Marine marauder tank double medic all infantry upgrades (stim shield shells +1) with a fast third hits around 10-11 minute.
Note -- not my name. I smurf a lot on my friends names to get some practice for fun.
Neither protoss player was really that good. Second was a diamond smurf doing chargelot archon sentry.
The accounts I was on were 500ish masters, so it was more for working out a new opening. I really feel like I could make this push into something. A 3 tank push with mara marine stim and +1 with a third done/almost done?
At least lets you siege protoss as you get an earlier third.
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Hello fellow Terrans, I would like to know what to do versus Pheonix/Colossus builds. Vikings are god awful at killing pheonixes and die way too quickly to do anything. Protoss ends up with Huge Colossus count that never dies. Can't really get more marines because they'll just evaporate to the Colossus.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
On November 28 2011 15:19 Scila wrote:
Hello fellow Terrans, I would like to know what to do versus Pheonix/Colossus builds. Vikings are god awful at killing pheonixes and die way too quickly to do anything. Protoss ends up with Huge Colossus count that never dies. Can't really get more marines because they'll just evaporate to the Colossus.
WTF? How in the world are you dying to colossi/phoenix? Also, how is he alive long enough gather an army of colossi/phoenix?
Can you post some replays please? This is definitely something we need to look at in order to be able to help
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On November 28 2011 15:19 Scila wrote:
Hello fellow Terrans, I would like to know what to do versus Pheonix/Colossus builds. Vikings are god awful at killing pheonixes and die way too quickly to do anything. Protoss ends up with Huge Colossus count that never dies. Can't really get more marines because they'll just evaporate to the Colossus.
Same as you would with colossus, but now you have to be a little more careful with your vikings. Be sure to place them over your marine army. The greatest power of the viking over the other races' air units is their immense range, and as such can fire at colossus and phoenix while protected from your ground army. Ultimately marines are the punch that are going to deal with the phoenix, but you have to do a tricky micro dance between colossus range of your marines and viking range with his units. As always in TvP, engage out in the open rather than enclosed areas to increase your ability to move around.
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Vs Phoenix Colossus its quite simple.
You EMP his Phoenix and you focus fire his Colossus with your Vikings.
You should be producting 4 at a time with double reactored Starports.
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On November 28 2011 19:47 Zombo Joe wrote:
Vs Phoenix Colossus its quite simple.
You EMP his Phoenix and you focus fire his Colossus with your Vikings.
You should be producting 4 at a time with double reactored Starports.
In addition to that, you should get air upgrades from your armory which is generally unused in bio and which can save you viking supply.
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For TvT, anyone have any tips for going mech against bio? I know that a maxed mech army is supposed to beat a maxed bio army but how do you overcome the mobility issue? You can only cover so many bases with tanks before you're spread too thin and if you try to move out all at once you risk a huge bio ball running in and destroying half your base or stimmed marauders catching you unsieged. I feel like it's really hard to take map control with a tank based army without leaving huge gaps in your defense.
Also, if you have uncontested air control against MMM, what's the best way to capitalize on that?
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On November 29 2011 12:20 MysteryHours wrote:
For TvT, anyone have any tips for going mech against bio? I know that a maxed mech army is supposed to beat a maxed bio army but how do you overcome the mobility issue? You can only cover so many bases with tanks before you're spread too thin and if you try to move out all at once you risk a huge bio ball running in and destroying half your base or stimmed marauders catching you unsieged. I feel like it's really hard to take map control with a tank based army without leaving huge gaps in your defense.
Also, if you have uncontested air control against MMM, what's the best way to capitalize on that?
You only really need to cover the front entrances to your bases with tanks. Mech is based heavily around 3 base play so you should really only have to defend your natural and possibly a third depending on the map. Since you're heavily gas focused drop turrets anywhere that you're exposed to drops since you'll be banking up minerals anyways. 4 tanks in position with a few hellions are beyond cost effective to any size bio force pushing in.
If he decides to rush your base while you're moving across the map he's actually handed you a free win. Go kill his main as well and then you're both left with a 200/200 army (at worse, because properly leaving 4~ tanks with scvs to block for them will likely do terrible, terrible damage.) that your mech army will roll.
To not be caught unseiged simply don't unseige all your tanks at once. At most unseige 4~ at a time, and constantly leapfrog your way across the map if you're unsure of where his army is.
In regards to map control, playing mech means you're actually willingly giving it up. You can still run around with hellions to harass but any position that isn't directly in your base a bio player can force you out of.
If you have air control simply use it to spot for your tanks and pick off medivacs. Never seperate it from your army, but feel free to do minor pokes within your seige range to cut down whatever he has in the air. Bio without medivacs becomes exponentially worse.
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On November 29 2011 18:18 ScareCrow` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 12:20 MysteryHours wrote:
For TvT, anyone have any tips for going mech against bio? I know that a maxed mech army is supposed to beat a maxed bio army but how do you overcome the mobility issue? You can only cover so many bases with tanks before you're spread too thin and if you try to move out all at once you risk a huge bio ball running in and destroying half your base or stimmed marauders catching you unsieged. I feel like it's really hard to take map control with a tank based army without leaving huge gaps in your defense.
Also, if you have uncontested air control against MMM, what's the best way to capitalize on that? You only really need to cover the front entrances to your bases with tanks. Mech is based heavily around 3 base play so you should really only have to defend your natural and possibly a third depending on the map. Since you're heavily gas focused drop turrets anywhere that you're exposed to drops since you'll be banking up minerals anyways. 4 tanks in position with a few hellions are beyond cost effective to any size bio force pushing in.
If he decides to rush your base while you're moving across the map he's actually handed you a free win. Go kill his main as well and then you're both left with a 200/200 army (at worse, because properly leaving 4~ tanks with scvs to block for them will likely do terrible, terrible damage.) that your mech army will roll.To not be caught unseiged simply don't unseige all your tanks at once. At most unseige 4~ at a time, and constantly leapfrog your way across the map if you're unsure of where his army is. In regards to map control, playing mech means you're actually willingly giving it up. You can still run around with hellions to harass but any position that isn't directly in your base a bio player can force you out of. If you have air control simply use it to spot for your tanks and pick off medivacs. Never seperate it from your army, but feel free to do minor pokes within your seige range to cut down whatever he has in the air. Bio without medivacs becomes exponentially worse.
This is very, very untrue. Allowing a base trade with mech v. bio is extremely stupid for 2 reasons -- first of all, the bio player will almost certainly have more bases, or he hasn't been using his map control very well. However, even beyond this, medivacs and mobility solve the open-field matchup here. It's so hard to always be in position against bio in the middle of the map (except on, say, metalopolis where 100% of the map is a choke) and a good flank will beat even a decent sieging reaction. Mech wants to try to slowly force bio into an engagement where its tanks are already sieged. It does this by using some small pokes like hellion drops and run bys to force bio to temporarily lose map vision and then slowly push into position. On a lot of maps, once mech takes the area near the watchtower, the game is basically over (Antiga, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga, Abyssal, Shakuras; not Tal'Darim, Shattered Temple; Nerazim is in the middle). That's your biggest task.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 29 2011 23:24 upperbound wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 18:18 ScareCrow` wrote:On November 29 2011 12:20 MysteryHours wrote:
For TvT, anyone have any tips for going mech against bio? I know that a maxed mech army is supposed to beat a maxed bio army but how do you overcome the mobility issue? You can only cover so many bases with tanks before you're spread too thin and if you try to move out all at once you risk a huge bio ball running in and destroying half your base or stimmed marauders catching you unsieged. I feel like it's really hard to take map control with a tank based army without leaving huge gaps in your defense.
Also, if you have uncontested air control against MMM, what's the best way to capitalize on that? You only really need to cover the front entrances to your bases with tanks. Mech is based heavily around 3 base play so you should really only have to defend your natural and possibly a third depending on the map. Since you're heavily gas focused drop turrets anywhere that you're exposed to drops since you'll be banking up minerals anyways. 4 tanks in position with a few hellions are beyond cost effective to any size bio force pushing in.
If he decides to rush your base while you're moving across the map he's actually handed you a free win. Go kill his main as well and then you're both left with a 200/200 army (at worse, because properly leaving 4~ tanks with scvs to block for them will likely do terrible, terrible damage.) that your mech army will roll.To not be caught unseiged simply don't unseige all your tanks at once. At most unseige 4~ at a time, and constantly leapfrog your way across the map if you're unsure of where his army is. In regards to map control, playing mech means you're actually willingly giving it up. You can still run around with hellions to harass but any position that isn't directly in your base a bio player can force you out of. If you have air control simply use it to spot for your tanks and pick off medivacs. Never seperate it from your army, but feel free to do minor pokes within your seige range to cut down whatever he has in the air. Bio without medivacs becomes exponentially worse. This is very, very untrue. Allowing a base trade with mech v. bio is extremely stupid for 2 reasons -- first of all, the bio player will almost certainly have more bases, or he hasn't been using his map control very well. However, even beyond this, medivacs and mobility solve the open-field matchup here. It's so hard to always be in position against bio in the middle of the map (except on, say, metalopolis where 100% of the map is a choke) and a good flank will beat even a decent sieging reaction. Mech wants to try to slowly force bio into an engagement where its tanks are already sieged. It does this by using some small pokes like hellion drops and run bys to force bio to temporarily lose map vision and then slowly push into position. On a lot of maps, once mech takes the area near the watchtower, the game is basically over (Antiga, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga, Abyssal, Shakuras; not Tal'Darim, Shattered Temple; Nerazim is in the middle). That's your biggest task.
Try to avoid base-trade situations.
A Full Mech army will be stronger but will usually be down a base. You gradually want to develop a position where you've taken your area of the map and are slowly pushing onto whatever his most important base is. Against bio, you can win any direct engagement in which you're sieged up, but you will lose any engagement in which you're not. Push slowly and watch for doom drops and counterattacks. Try to secure plenty of bases and use the positions of your tanks to keep them safe from attacks by ground. As long as he doesn't make tanks, he can't really STOP a slow push-- only try to counterattack and assert map control to make you stop your own push.
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Its also a very good idea to place turrets all over your the edge of your main once you get on 3-4 bases in all match ups (essential when meching).
Otherwise a doom drop could rape your entire main.
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