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I have just started playing Terran on the 1v1 ladder and I have a few problems with each matchup. I played a friends account from bronze to gold as Terran a while ago but now I'm playing on my account which I got to platinum as zerg in.
TvP
I've been doing a 1 rax gasless fast expand into a 10 minute 100 supply push with medivacs. If I get to this stage I will usually just win right away or heavily outmacro the protoss while pressuring. But my problem is holding off early protoss attacks. A typical scenario involves me doing my 1 rax expand, placing a bunker down, seeing the protoss expand and feeling safe behind my one bunker but then I get hit with 3 gate pressure before my 2nd and 3rd barracks production has really kicked in. I pull scvs in time to repair but they are blocked by forcefields every time. How should I deal with this? Should I be scanning at a certain time to see 2 extra gateways and throw down a second bunker? Should I play every TvP safe and blindly put 2 bunkers down anyway?
TvZ
Haven't played against many zerg yet. When I do I just do the same build I use against protoss. Some games the zerg has droned well enough to defend my 10 minute push, sometimes he hasn't. Sometimes they baneling bust and I die instantly. The game doesn't feel in my control with a 1 rax fast expand so I want to put some earlier pressure on. Are any 2 rax builds viable? Seems like maps are too big for them. Is reactor hellion fast expand still good? Hellions would surely help in the case of the zerg going all in, right? Then I can transition into marine+tank which I love using.
TvT
I'm pretty good at this matchup. I 1 rax fast expand, get my 2 additional barracks, get a factory and start making tanks. But it feels like I'm just playing freestyle with the opener. Anyone know a solid build order to fast expand and go for a marine+tank composition?
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On June 04 2012 18:23 JustinL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 18:15 dynwar7 wrote:On June 04 2012 15:00 HeroMystic wrote:On June 04 2012 14:54 dynwar7 wrote:
Is the patrol command still the most used way of splitting marines vs banelings? I just saw some videos of MKP etc and it seems to me they simply used move command instead of patrol...? Could someone who knows about this please tell me if it is better using patrol vs move? Always better to use move command. Patrol is too limited in it's ideal scenarios, and it just plain doesn't work when dealing with Mutaling. Pre-Splits are better than On-the-fly splitting, especially with Infestors involved. Thanks for this. So, can any other terran confirm if patrol command is not the ideal way to go vs bling anymore? Manual box + move command is the best? Patrol splitting is only good against pure baneling. If you patrol split against an army with zerglings or mutalisks as well, the marines will start attacking early and clump up.
So I guess I should always use manual split with move then? It seems hard, the way to improve is simply....practice right?
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Are there any exact BO:s or guides for a TvP 11/11 (or any other gasless 2 rax) somewhere? And are you able to transistion out of it in some way if you don't pull that many SCVs? Looking for ways to spice up my play in BoX:s
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On June 04 2012 21:27 Kamelixs wrote:
Are there any exact BO:s or guides for a TvP 11/11 (or any other gasless 2 rax) somewhere? And are you able to transistion out of it in some way if you don't pull that many SCVs? Looking for ways to spice up my play in BoX:s
11/11: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332371
If you don't want to commit that much into 2 rax you can do Alive-stylish-2 rax with one rax hidden and pull 4-6 scv.s if he 1 gate expoes. I don't know if there's bo/guide for that but he did that a lot in IPL4.
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On June 04 2012 11:19 analyze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 11:08 GTPGlitch wrote:
Okay, am i the only one that feels like lategame tvz is ridiculously hard?
Like... infestors and a handful of corruptors wreck vikings, thors get stuck behind broodlings.... It just feels really silly to try and kill a zerg who is competent at controlling his infestors, because once the infestors get their spells down they just kinda a-move over everything else.....
I think i've only won like 2 of my last 10 tvz's and only 1 where the guy had blords, and that was when he didn't have any infestors... No sir, I am having a lot of trouble TvZ in general. My EPM sits right around 150, I can play a bio-centric style as well as mechanical, and I am struggling with both. They mass roach really hard so my hellion/thor are completely useless and turtle up when I go mech. My drops have been more and more useless as time goes on, they are easily catching them as I pressure the third they have stuff sitting back to defend my drops. Plus with this increased queen range my hellions get screwed on creep and my medivacs hit from forever away. I am simply stumped. I feel as if I need to put on early pressure, but I cannot find the right build. I've done 2 base marine/med/tank all ins, I've done early hellions, I've done cloaked banshees, but NOTHING is working. I cannot win this match up anymore. The EPM required at the diamond/low masters level is much greater for terran which is so frustrating.
If, like me, you are going 1 Rax-FE into Hellion pressure/Cloaked Banshee then I cannot stress enough the importance of a well garrisoned front wall. I've held huge roach attacks with Hellions. A lot of time I see Terrans build supply depots in places other than directly in front of their natural and I cannot figure out why. It will take Roaches ages to break a double supply depot wall and even longer if there are bunkers in it.
Mech requires very defensive play. After the first 2 Thors to protect against Mutalisk transition, begin Siege Tanks. When you have your first 2 Siege Tanks and a double-wall, Roaches will no longer be an issue. Keep the pressure on with the Banshees and Hellions and even add a Raven to clear creep. If the Zerg does not take a third you do not need to either. I like to wait and see that he has placed an expansion before floating my own 3rd OC out there. If the Zerg takes a third it means that you have some time to reposition and readjust your defenses to compensate for your added space.
Play patiently, calculating, and move out at 200/200, if you know your composition will work, to clean up.
On June 04 2012 18:44 JustinL wrote:
I have just started playing Terran on the 1v1 ladder and I have a few problems with each matchup. I played a friends account from bronze to gold as Terran a while ago but now I'm playing on my account which I got to platinum as zerg in.
TvP - Bio play. To me Bio is the style that makes the most sense against Protoss. It's very difficult right now and I'd say the most challenging match-up out there, but it's the most stable style you can run. Marines, Marauders, Medivacs, Ghosts, Vikings. Late game Battlecruisers have also had dazzling effects.
TvZ - Mech play. Similar to my reasonings for Bio in TvP, Mech play just makes the most sense to me. I've also found Marine/Tank pushes to be either the winning maneuver, or the failure that directly resulted in a loss. I think the entire metagame of Marine/Tank resulted from players like MKP with unrealistic micro and decision making. For people who can make that work, then no question stick with it because it does work. For most people however, throwing off wave after wave of Zerg units until a critical mass is reached is much more plausible and intuitive.
TvT - ???. It's correct of you to feel wishy-washy. This match-up is currently very varying. Often times it's Bio vs. Mech with one player playing the role of Zerg and the other of Terran (Harass vs. Turtle). Other times it's Expand play vs. 1-Base pushes (1 Rax FE vs. Reaper/Hellion). My suggestion would be to find a stable build and stick with it. Most TvT builds work against all the other ones and just requires better play. I've stuck with Thorzain's Expand build that was covered in a Day9 Daily but recently I've been having trouble and might seek out a new style.
EDIT: I'm a Diamond Terran
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I find Starcraft fun when doing what I consider creative builds (i.e. not stolen from the latest GSL). For example, my tvz is a 3-base raven build. However, I really can't seem to find any way to deviate from standard MMM in tvp. Is there any way to play less standard tvp without dying? Terran air just gets obliterated by blink-stalkers, and my attempts at mech have been bad, to say the least.
Also, I'm floating between gold and plat right now, so no builds that require a million APM please 
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On June 05 2012 04:05 ZanTwilight wrote:I find Starcraft fun when doing what I consider creative builds (i.e. not stolen from the latest GSL). For example, my tvz is a 3-base raven build. However, I really can't seem to find any way to deviate from standard MMM in tvp. Is there any way to play less standard tvp without dying? Terran air just gets obliterated by blink-stalkers, and my attempts at mech have been bad, to say the least. Also, I'm floating between gold and plat right now, so no builds that require a million APM please
Mech is completly viable at gold/platinum level. I'm a master league player myself and I have done a bit of meching myself against protoss. Do you mech vs terran and zerg? If you do you have to realise it's different to mech against toss
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323003 - Mech guide to TvP mech
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283935 - TvP Pure air guide
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On June 05 2012 04:05 ZanTwilight wrote:I find Starcraft fun when doing what I consider creative builds (i.e. not stolen from the latest GSL). For example, my tvz is a 3-base raven build. However, I really can't seem to find any way to deviate from standard MMM in tvp. Is there any way to play less standard tvp without dying? Terran air just gets obliterated by blink-stalkers, and my attempts at mech have been bad, to say the least. Also, I'm floating between gold and plat right now, so no builds that require a million APM please
actually banshees are very good against stalkers,
this is similar to the way I play http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297346
there's also this guide http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323003
there is also a very good sky terran guide but I cannot find it  ( think by yoshi korishima?)
the more you play a mech or sky or skymech style you start to realise that you can get comfortable with them and they can be made to work.
the only reason I don't play standard tvp is my micro is not good enough to play standard and playing standard just gets me killed xD
edit: read the response above mine, same guides except http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297346
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If I am playing a mechish style and am happy to turtle until we mine out, does this make supply call-downs a better idea than mule drops? as I don't want to mine out too fast.
Obviously when I get to high supply I start to use mules after sacking my scvs
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On June 05 2012 04:45 ThePianoDentist wrote:
If I am playing a mechish style and am happy to turtle until we mine out, does this make supply call-downs a better idea than mule drops? as I don't want to mine out too fast.
Obviously when I get to high supply I start to use mules after sacking my scvs
imo, assuming that you both have even bases mined out, every supply calldown you use is minerals that you don't have to spend on supply, and instead can spend on other things. It's not bad, but at the same time, using mules allows you to produce units faster with their increased income, which would be useful for holding off timings and attacks and such. You should also consider that if an expansion is contested, or can be threatened, mules can mine it out quicker and even if you lose the expansion to your opponent, he'll end up with less minerals than he would have earned if you weren't using mules.
And depots with calldowns on them hurt you quite a bit if they get blown up by harass T_T
I'd use mules, since it allows you to mine out the map quicker. You still end up with the same resources, you just end up with those resources faster than your opponent!
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On June 05 2012 04:37 DawN883 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:05 ZanTwilight wrote:I find Starcraft fun when doing what I consider creative builds (i.e. not stolen from the latest GSL). For example, my tvz is a 3-base raven build. However, I really can't seem to find any way to deviate from standard MMM in tvp. Is there any way to play less standard tvp without dying? Terran air just gets obliterated by blink-stalkers, and my attempts at mech have been bad, to say the least. Also, I'm floating between gold and plat right now, so no builds that require a million APM please Mech is completly viable at gold/platinum level. I'm a master league player myself and I have done a bit of meching myself against protoss. Do you mech vs terran and zerg? If you do you have to realise it's different to mech against toss http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323003 - Mech guide to TvP mech http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283935 - TvP Pure air guide
So much to read T_T Thanks, though. I just finished the first link, and it sounds like a cool way to play tvp. Although, I really think he doesn't use enough ravens. With a supporting ground army, they seem like they could be really potent. I'm biased, and you guys are way better than me, so please post if you think that's viable
And yes, I do like to mech in tvz and sometimes tvt.
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On June 05 2012 04:45 ThePianoDentist wrote:
If I am playing a mechish style and am happy to turtle until we mine out, does this make supply call-downs a better idea than mule drops? as I don't want to mine out too fast.
Obviously when I get to high supply I start to use mules after sacking my scvs
Minerals are much less important in mech, so mules are likewise less important. They should still be prioritized over supply call-down, but the most important OC spell will be scan. You need to constantly be checking hive timing (tvz) and unit composition (tvp) in order to adjust what units you are producing.
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Where does my ghost go in my TvP? In front of my army or the back of it? Also should I send in my ghost before the battle in attempt to snipe/EMP the HT or try to get the HT during battle?
Oh and should my main army be the control priority in battle or my ghosts?
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What are the strongest 2 Base All ins in TvP and TvZ right now?
Regards
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On June 05 2012 06:10 pumpy145 wrote:
Where does my ghost go in my TvP? In front of my army or the back of it? Also should I send in my ghost before the battle in attempt to snipe/EMP the HT or try to get the HT during battle?
Oh and should my main army be the control priority in battle or my ghosts?
Ghosts lead the charge, so to speak.
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On June 05 2012 06:10 pumpy145 wrote:
Where does my ghost go in my TvP? In front of my army or the back of it? Also should I send in my ghost before the battle in attempt to snipe/EMP the HT or try to get the HT during battle?
Oh and should my main army be the control priority in battle or my ghosts?
Not that I'm any pro, but I just watched a Day9 Daily (317?) where he talks about it. You probably want to scan in front of your army to see the protoss. If their army is clumped or if the HT are hittable, send the ghosts in first and EMP. If Protoss knows you have ghosts and spaces out his army, don't EMP the army before the attack. If the HT are in the back, don't EMP them before the attack. If your ghosts are going in with your army, keep them near the middle (but better to be farther back than farther forwards). As Day9 put it, the army has to bunch up during the fight. EMP them once they do that. Likewise, the HT have to move up to storm, so try and EMP them when they do.
Obviously make sure your army is stimmed before doing ghost fanciness. However, I would put ghost EMPs over army micro as far as control. Every HT you can EMP before they storm is HUGE amounts damage deflected from your bio army. Also, don't be shy about suiciding ghosts (not all of them) to EMP Protoss's HTs - it's well worth it, as long as you have enough time to land the EMPs before the ghosts die.
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If i open 1rax fe into 1-1-1 with banshees , how many hellions should I make before switching to tank? I suppose its situational but pls give examples
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Ok. I'm literally tired of TvZ. I can't win a single game. This queen buff screwed me up and I can't even remember the last time I won a TvZ. I tried all the builds that people are proposing (DeMuslim or Taejas) and many more. My mechanics are going all the way down and I just can't take it anymore. The more I play the more frustrated I get.
I need some timings or all ins that can secure me a win, at least a motivating win. That's what I need. A 2 base timing would be awesome as I don't really enjoy cheesing, but I guess that with my current loss streak against zerg I'll take basically anything that can avoid me going into that one sided late game that is TvZ.
I see Zerg in the loading screen and I'm already smashing my face against the keyboard.
Btw, I'm mid masters. I tried 2 port banshees but I basically can't find a way to avoid those now-turbospeed overlords from scouting my entire base or getting all-in'd by one of the trillion all-ins Zerg has.
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On June 04 2012 18:44 JustinL wrote:
I have just started playing Terran on the 1v1 ladder and I have a few problems with each matchup. I played a friends account from bronze to gold as Terran a while ago but now I'm playing on my account which I got to platinum as zerg in.
TvP
I've been doing a 1 rax gasless fast expand into a 10 minute 100 supply push with medivacs. If I get to this stage I will usually just win right away or heavily outmacro the protoss while pressuring. But my problem is holding off early protoss attacks. A typical scenario involves me doing my 1 rax expand, placing a bunker down, seeing the protoss expand and feeling safe behind my one bunker but then I get hit with 3 gate pressure before my 2nd and 3rd barracks production has really kicked in. I pull scvs in time to repair but they are blocked by forcefields every time. How should I deal with this? Should I be scanning at a certain time to see 2 extra gateways and throw down a second bunker? Should I play every TvP safe and blindly put 2 bunkers down anyway?
TvZ
Haven't played against many zerg yet. When I do I just do the same build I use against protoss. Some games the zerg has droned well enough to defend my 10 minute push, sometimes he hasn't. Sometimes they baneling bust and I die instantly. The game doesn't feel in my control with a 1 rax fast expand so I want to put some earlier pressure on. Are any 2 rax builds viable? Seems like maps are too big for them. Is reactor hellion fast expand still good? Hellions would surely help in the case of the zerg going all in, right? Then I can transition into marine+tank which I love using.
TvT
I'm pretty good at this matchup. I 1 rax fast expand, get my 2 additional barracks, get a factory and start making tanks. But it feels like I'm just playing freestyle with the opener. Anyone know a solid build order to fast expand and go for a marine+tank composition?
TvP:
The answer is that you really need a second Bunker aggainst those attacks and the reason for that are the Force Fields. When he can just cast 2-3 Force Fields to deny your repair you are dead. That´s why it´s recommended to build a 2nd Bunker shortly away from your 1st Bunker, so that he has to use up to like 4-5 Force Fields. A Key timing is ~ 6:00-6:30, that´s when Warpgate tech finishes without chronoboosting. The Attacks after expanding allways hit after that mark, so when you send a SCV out arround this time and you see units from him in front of your Base prepare for a Gateway attack. Tells can be a 2nd Gas before the opponent expanded or a lot of Chronoboost safed up.
TvZ:
I´m also doing a 1 Rax fe style into 3 Rax then into Starport in TvZ and i´m in Diamond League. Sure Baneling attack can be tricky to hold, but the answer to that is correct walling. For example i like to place my 2 additional Rax to wall my Natrual. The key is to have multiple walls, so that he has to bust through 2 walls to do real damage, just making the wall thicker doesn´t help that much aggainst baneling busts. Yes they are though to defend, but i really like it when i can manage to defend this, because after that my Medivacs finish and i can start heavy Drop Play and usually finish him off quite early. 2 naked Rax or Reactor Hellion builds are still viable, but they have different transitions. For example the Reactor Hellion build with 6 Hellions into a fast 3rd CC and Upgrade orientied style for timing attack arround +2 Attack.
TvT:
In TvT i´m doing a 1 Rax fe into 3 Rax then double Gas. First the first gas i build a techlab and research Combat Shield, with the next 100 Gas i build my 2 additional reactors and an ebay to start +1 Attack soon. Then i build my 3rd Gas and get my Factory up. After the Factory is up i get a Techlab on it and produce Tanks and build a naked Starport for Medivacs. That´s a good opening for Marine,Tank,Medivac ( 3 Rax 1 w tl 2 w r, 1 Fac w tl, 1 SP naked).
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On June 05 2012 16:25 goFLiP wrote:
Ok. I'm literally tired of TvZ. I can't win a single game. This queen buff screwed me up and I can't even remember the last time I won a TvZ. I tried all the builds that people are proposing (DeMuslim or Taejas) and many more. My mechanics are going all the way down and I just can't take it anymore. The more I play the more frustrated I get.
I need some timings or all ins that can secure me a win, at least a motivating win. That's what I need. A 2 base timing would be awesome as I don't really enjoy cheesing, but I guess that with my current loss streak against zerg I'll take basically anything that can avoid me going into that one sided late game that is TvZ.
I see Zerg in the loading screen and I'm already smashing my face against the keyboard.
Btw, I'm mid masters. I tried 2 port banshees but I basically can't find a way to avoid those now-turbospeed overlords from scouting my entire base or getting all-in'd by one of the trillion all-ins Zerg has.
http://www.twitch.tv/iamjeffrey_/b/320377629
Watch the first game I played on my stream yesterday. TvZ, I win the game with the first push, but he doesn't leave. I then double his score, and completely roll him.
After, is a 45 min TvZ against roach ling -> roach infestor -> ling bane brood -> brood corruptor ultra ling infestor ultimate army split map on Metalopolis that I win.
It's got to be your execution of the demu build, because I flat out crush people with it.
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EPT
