EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 243
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
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Sianos
580 Posts
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XenoJesus
United States72 Posts
Don't comment on drops/etc. I could have sworn he had a maphack or something. He had no obs on my army and still knew where my drops were. So, how do I hold this? http://drop.sc/191814 Thank you! | ||
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heartie
7 Posts
On June 05 2012 17:18 Sianos wrote: TvP: The answer is that you really need a second Bunker aggainst those attacks and the reason for that are the Force Fields. When he can just cast 2-3 Force Fields to deny your repair you are dead. That´s why it´s recommended to build a 2nd Bunker shortly away from your 1st Bunker, so that he has to use up to like 4-5 Force Fields. A Key timing is ~ 6:00-6:30, that´s when Warpgate tech finishes without chronoboosting. The Attacks after expanding allways hit after that mark, so when you send a SCV out arround this time and you see units from him in front of your Base prepare for a Gateway attack. Tells can be a 2nd Gas before the opponent expanded or a lot of Chronoboost safed up. TvZ: I´m also doing a 1 Rax fe style into 3 Rax then into Starport in TvZ and i´m in Diamond League. Sure Baneling attack can be tricky to hold, but the answer to that is correct walling. For example i like to place my 2 additional Rax to wall my Natrual. The key is to have multiple walls, so that he has to bust through 2 walls to do real damage, just making the wall thicker doesn´t help that much aggainst baneling busts. Yes they are though to defend, but i really like it when i can manage to defend this, because after that my Medivacs finish and i can start heavy Drop Play and usually finish him off quite early. 2 naked Rax or Reactor Hellion builds are still viable, but they have different transitions. For example the Reactor Hellion build with 6 Hellions into a fast 3rd CC and Upgrade orientied style for timing attack arround +2 Attack. TvT: In TvT i´m doing a 1 Rax fe into 3 Rax then double Gas. First the first gas i build a techlab and research Combat Shield, with the next 100 Gas i build my 2 additional reactors and an ebay to start +1 Attack soon. Then i build my 3rd Gas and get my Factory up. After the Factory is up i get a Techlab on it and produce Tanks and build a naked Starport for Medivacs. That´s a good opening for Marine,Tank,Medivac ( 3 Rax 1 w tl 2 w r, 1 Fac w tl, 1 SP naked). Do you have any TvZ replays vs solid zergs? I'd really love to watch them | ||
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jabberjaw
225 Posts
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MrFrozen
Uruguay14 Posts
On June 05 2012 18:18 iAmJeffReY wrote: http://www.twitch.tv/iamjeffrey_/b/320377629 Watch the first game I played on my stream yesterday. TvZ, I win the game with the first push, but he doesn't leave. I then double his score, and completely roll him. After, is a 45 min TvZ against roach ling -> roach infestor -> ling bane brood -> brood corruptor ultra ling infestor ultimate army split map on Metalopolis that I win. It's got to be your execution of the demu build, because I flat out crush people with it. I wanted to thank you for posting about this build some pages ago. Been struggling really hard against zerg and it has helped me tons, it outright kills the zergs I play against on the ladder (700 Master) and I'm not even executing it very well yet. Thanks! | ||
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InPlainSight
New Zealand40 Posts
On June 05 2012 23:02 XenoJesus wrote: How am I supposed to hold this push? It seems like I killed most of the army but heavy losses for myself AND he was able to expand. Don't comment on drops/etc. I could have sworn he had a maphack or something. He had no obs on my army and still knew where my drops were. So, how do I hold this? http://drop.sc/191814 Thank you! Looking at the replay he was almost certainly a maphacker as he moved perfectly to intercept drops multiple times with no vision whatsoever. This push you talk about i assume means his templar zealot ball? He isn't really hitting any timings with it as it is quite a late game composition. You have a whole bunch of stuff to work on. I suggest trying out a new build order as the execution of your 2 rax was quite late. Just try to 1 rax expand. There are plenty of guides. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Rax_FE_(vs._Protoss) When you are facing a templar heavy composition you really need ghosts, try to scan and pick of the observer and then cloak your ghosts and snipe as many templar as you can. Then in the big engagement emp any you didn't get. In terms of his expanding, you could have expanded too at almost any point, you both had pretty bad macro and that was why he eventually won, he expanded and you did not. You should also focus on getting upgrades. You should probably be staring upgrades around the time you get your first medivacs out and not stopping until you have 3-3. Do not underestimate how amazing upgrades are. | ||
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hersenen
Belize176 Posts
On June 05 2012 22:52 Sianos wrote: Do you mean this one Hmm not quite. It was more like "you need exactly 4 scvs to power 1 barracks, 10 scvs to power a reactored factory, etc.. etc." (I made these numbers up as an example) It was a really interesting post. | ||
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
On June 05 2012 18:51 hersenen wrote: Does anyone have a link to the TL worker pull guide where the poster goes over how many workers you need to power different terran structures? I tried searching for hours and couldn't find it. Here you go: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319151 | ||
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_Book
United States51 Posts
I started going 1 rax FE into reactor hellions into cloaked banshees. The question i have is what do i do after my banshees are out. I will have enough minerals to expand, or to put down 2 extra barracks. So which should i do? Is it map dependent? Scouting dependent? Or is it based on the amount of damage i do with my banshees and/or hellions? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
I have a 71% win rate in ZvT this season, with 90 games (1.1k masters zerg). I think infestor play is horrible in ZvT, it's just that on certain maps (entombed, antiga), mutas aren't really viable, and such anti-muta features make infestor play stronger. I have these maps vetoed, but cloud kingdom and ohana are pretty shitty muta maps too. I always go mutas, it works for me. So 2 questions. 1. Which is harder for you to deal with? And what's harder to deal with in regards to mutas - lots of mutas, or like 8-12 mutas into quick hive? 2. What do you have trouble with? What works against you? 3. Is muta play easy for you to deal with? I hear some people say 'oh terrans have figured out mutas' or 'oh they went mutas its a free win for terran' but I don't think that's true (casters are wrong on half the stuff they say anyways). How do you feel about mutas, what do you do to 'counter' it? I guess the only thing that's questionable when I use mutas is if terran goes fast third and therefore does that quicker rine/tank/medivac/upgraded with 2 thors push that ling/bane/muta can't beat without a lucky engagement... but I tend to 'counter' such play by either being really aggressive against terran who tends to be defensive against ling/bane/muta if he took a quick third, or teching to hive much quicker and making less mutas. That's all. 1.1k masters zerg, just interested in what you guys have to say, because i'm genuinely surprised that most zergs dont even go mutas anymore, it still works for me just fine. | ||
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DeKGenetiX
United States17 Posts
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SirPinky
United States525 Posts
On June 06 2012 13:41 Belial88 wrote: I have a question for terrans rather than about terran, as a zerg player. I have a 71% win rate in ZvT this season, with 90 games (1.1k masters zerg). I think infestor play is horrible in ZvT, it's just that on certain maps (entombed, antiga), mutas aren't really viable, and such anti-muta features make infestor play stronger. I have these maps vetoed, but cloud kingdom and ohana are pretty shitty muta maps too. I always go mutas, it works for me. So 2 questions. 1. Which is harder for you to deal with? And what's harder to deal with in regards to mutas - lots of mutas, or like 8-12 mutas into quick hive? 2. What do you have trouble with? What works against you? 3. Is muta play easy for you to deal with? I hear some people say 'oh terrans have figured out mutas' or 'oh they went mutas its a free win for terran' but I don't think that's true (casters are wrong on half the stuff they say anyways). How do you feel about mutas, what do you do to 'counter' it? I guess the only thing that's questionable when I use mutas is if terran goes fast third and therefore does that quicker rine/tank/medivac/upgraded with 2 thors push that ling/bane/muta can't beat without a lucky engagement... but I tend to 'counter' such play by either being really aggressive against terran who tends to be defensive against ling/bane/muta if he took a quick third, or teching to hive much quicker and making less mutas. That's all. 1.1k masters zerg, just interested in what you guys have to say, because i'm genuinely surprised that most zergs dont even go mutas anymore, it still works for me just fine. Belia, Small amount of mutas are hard to deal with as terran. I disagree muta play has been "dealt with." I've heard that too and I don't know where people are getting it. I think Idra was doing a lot better when he was making muta than switching to Ultra's; in fact I think that is mainly why he is in a slump. I'm a mech player. And with the new queen buff i also know a lot more people are going mech. If you can magic box 1 thor or harss the main and keep the terran in their base it can do wonders. I always believe in making a few mutas vs a terran to keep them on their toes - even 15 minutes in (after you show double upgrades and roaches). It makes them cautious...and that's what zergs need to expand. PS. Master T, GM Protoss | ||
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OneBaseKing
Afghanistan412 Posts
On June 06 2012 13:41 Belial88 wrote: I have a question for terrans rather than about terran, as a zerg player. I have a 71% win rate in ZvT this season, with 90 games (1.1k masters zerg). I think infestor play is horrible in ZvT, it's just that on certain maps (entombed, antiga), mutas aren't really viable, and such anti-muta features make infestor play stronger. I have these maps vetoed, but cloud kingdom and ohana are pretty shitty muta maps too. I always go mutas, it works for me. So 2 questions. 1. Which is harder for you to deal with? And what's harder to deal with in regards to mutas - lots of mutas, or like 8-12 mutas into quick hive? 2. What do you have trouble with? What works against you? 3. Is muta play easy for you to deal with? I hear some people say 'oh terrans have figured out mutas' or 'oh they went mutas its a free win for terran' but I don't think that's true (casters are wrong on half the stuff they say anyways). How do you feel about mutas, what do you do to 'counter' it? I guess the only thing that's questionable when I use mutas is if terran goes fast third and therefore does that quicker rine/tank/medivac/upgraded with 2 thors push that ling/bane/muta can't beat without a lucky engagement... but I tend to 'counter' such play by either being really aggressive against terran who tends to be defensive against ling/bane/muta if he took a quick third, or teching to hive much quicker and making less mutas. That's all. 1.1k masters zerg, just interested in what you guys have to say, because i'm genuinely surprised that most zergs dont even go mutas anymore, it still works for me just fine. low masters terran 1. Infestors a little bit harder cuz i have to split up stuff, for mutas, just keeping eye on tanks from snipes and turrets around base 2. i have trouble with festors cuz i never really learned how to deal with them lol. 3. mutas easier than festors, but they're not easy to deal with. idk maybe i just suck in masters | ||
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DeKGenetiX
United States17 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Belia, Small amount of mutas are hard to deal with as terran. I disagree muta play has been "dealt with." I've heard that too and I don't know where people are getting it. I think Idra was doing a lot better when he was making muta than switching to Ultra's; in fact I think that is mainly why he is in a slump. I'm a mech player yea really, idra was a beast with mutas but now he's just 'meh'. I don't think I've seen a single GSL game where infestor play in ZvT won the zerg the game (I can definitely say the overwhelming majority of the time zerg goes infestors, they lose, if not every time!, but that may also just be because of the map, eg antiga and entombed, moreso than infestor play), and every time DRG goes infestors he seems to lose, but when he goes mutas he still does well (most recent MKP vs DRG MLG series, for example). On a side note, does mech work well? I dont ever see pros do it unless it's a map like dual sight (going mech on daybreak sounds like suicide). The only time ive lost to mech this season was someone doing a weird hellion/tank/marine 2 base all-in (it was really weird and stupidity on my part by fully droning 3 base and not getting baneling speed because i thought he was going pure mech, i should have seen his siege tanks and no thors but whatever korhal's lame). But I wasn't really talking about mutas vs mech though lol. Yea mutas are interesting in mech, they are okay, I tend not to make them, unless I didn't know they were going mech as late as when I make my spire (i'll keep it instead of cancelling it, and will make some mutas sometimes, but against mech I just go 3 base roach/infestor into bl). low masters terran 1. Infestors a little bit harder cuz i have to split up stuff, for mutas, just keeping eye on tanks from snipes and turrets around base 2. i have trouble with festors cuz i never really learned how to deal with them lol. 3. mutas easier than festors, but they're not easy to deal with. idk maybe i just suck in masters 1. What? It's a lot easier to split against infestors than ling/bane :X And how is it easier to deal with muta harass then a zerg who is just turtling and going quick hive? I dont think any terran would say muta harass is easy to deal with :X 2. and you 'know' how to deal with mutas? 3. What makes them easy exactly? Like... do you find their hive tech late and your 3 base push crushes them? Is ling/bane/muta easier to engage than roach/ling/bane/infestor? I don't understand why you say mutas are easier - i mean i understand you say they are... is it because splitting against it is easier? i dont understand :X thanks for the responses though. if it's a 'balanced' map (not saying antiga is imbalanced, but it's not neutral in terms of who it favors) I'm wondering which is harder to deal with, what's maybe better, more popular... i dont know, i have success with mutas in tvz. maybe the recent trend of terrans going fast third is making mass mutas not as good (we are seeing some zergs just go 8-12 mutas into quick hive though). | ||
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AceLight
New Zealand220 Posts
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Monkay
Germany19 Posts
On June 06 2012 16:29 AceLight wrote: What is the best response if walling off your ramp in TvP on a map like Daybreak and a Probe/Drone starts to attack the SCV building your rax? Don't wall your ramp, you can build the first depo there to scout a probe who wants to proxy in your base, build the baracks near your command center. | ||
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snowsnow
17 Posts
i don't reallie advise one to wall off in t v p for the first depot. just build it near ur minerals. then u can save a lot of time during the time needed to wait for a rax. (assuming 12 rax). the benefit of walling off at ramp is to prevent scout or double gate proxy zealots. but firstly, u wun be able to block off in time, and if u do, it is quite obvious to a toss that it is probably an expand build. u wun hav enuff money to build two depots, one rax and one refinery without him getting his scout in. (assuming u dun cut scv) as for proxy zealots, unless the gates are in ur base, u can hold them off easily with scvs and marines. just decent control will do. focus on marine control and a move scvs. build ur rax near ur minerals, and pull a scv on and off to stop the probe from constantly attacking. no need to follow it around. | ||
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InPlainSight
New Zealand40 Posts
On June 06 2012 16:29 AceLight wrote: What is the best response if walling off your ramp in TvP on a map like Daybreak and a Probe/Drone starts to attack the SCV building your rax? Just pull the scv away when it drops below 20 life and depending on what percentage the barracks is done either pull 1 scv to replace the scv getting attacked if the barracks is close to completion, or do the same but bring another to chase the probe away if the barracks has longer to finish. If the probes doesn't continue harassing don't bother chasing it too long as that is a waste of money. Typically if the guy looks like hes going to harass my worker I send someone over straight away and if the guy is too greedy/not paying attension, try to kill his worker 2v1 else just replace the builder. | ||
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