EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 245
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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DeKGenetiX
United States17 Posts
On June 07 2012 02:27 avantoux wrote: how to defend a baneling bust all in one base with an helion reactor opening? I failed everytime. I can defend it very well with a 1rax FE into 3 rax (i used to wall the nat with my raxes) but with helion opening i can't  use heavy buildings like barracks to wall off well placed bunkers and fast siege tanks | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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MrFrozen
Uruguay14 Posts
On June 07 2012 02:03 Immersion_ wrote: Hi all, first time posting in this thread. Long time random player, recent terran convert. Having serious problems with TvP my win is like 20%. http://drop.sc/192547 link to the replay. I feel I macrod quite poorly, missed quite a few depots, I tried to keep my composition relevant with lots of scans but eventually I got crushed. I know I let him get an easy 4th and possibly even 3rd but attacking protoss is scary! I didn't drop too much I know it's something I can improve on, knowing when and where to drop is really confusing though. Thoughts appreciated thanks. Yes, your macro was indeed quite poor. (so was his) You had way too many marauders for such a zealot heavy opposing army and too few vikings, I find it helpful to have two reactored starports to be able to react more quickly to his colo production. (In this case you could have had the correct number of vikings with just one, but two gives you a broader error margin) Try this three things:
Also note that you were behind in upgrades when the engagements at 17:30 happened, (3-2 vs 2-2, 3 attack at 75%) Good luck! | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On June 07 2012 02:03 Immersion_ wrote: Hi all, first time posting in this thread. Long time random player, recent terran convert. Having serious problems with TvP my win is like 20%. http://drop.sc/192547 link to the replay. I feel I macrod quite poorly, missed quite a few depots, I tried to keep my composition relevant with lots of scans but eventually I got crushed. I know I let him get an easy 4th and possibly even 3rd but attacking protoss is scary! I didn't drop too much I know it's something I can improve on, knowing when and where to drop is really confusing though. Thoughts appreciated thanks. I wanna say the biggest problem you had was your unit comp, I felt like you were a bit too marauder heavy, and there was a time where you were sitting outside his 3rd base, with 1 medivac at his 3rd, and another 1 at his main. I'm curious to see hear why you dropped at his 3rd even though all his stuff was still there. And also, your unit amount size in I guess what would be 4th or 5th base at that time looked really really small. I also think lack of big big emp's I find that putting a planetary with some bunkers at some location near a xel naga really helps, cause it kinda forces the Toss to commit big, or go back and let you regroup | ||
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
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Cosmology
Canada360 Posts
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LSF
469 Posts
On June 07 2012 07:07 Blackknight232 wrote: Does anyone know how to deal with Roach drops in tvz when the terran goes mech cause i've died to it twice already and i have no idea how to counter it. I know tanks work well vs roaches but i'm clueless on how to approach this problem. Have a look at this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308972 he talks about this in '6e' | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On June 07 2012 07:12 Cosmology wrote: What's the latest big tournament I can find replays for? Redbull lan IPL4 | ||
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ShaneFeit
92 Posts
On June 01 2012 08:50 iAmJeffReY wrote: I drop gas 2 and 3, get +1 armor, get starport -> reactor it, and then drop 2 more raxes, armory and 2nd ebay at 40% of +1 armor. I lift one of the tech lab raxes, and land the factory on it, the rax lands and makes a reactor. Start 3rd CC, then 2nd factory. That way, when third base is done, I'm on 5 rax 2 fac 1 port, standard marine tank with double ebay follow up. When third gets saturated, start 3rd fac, and 2-3 more rax. 3 base, I aim for 7-9 rax, 3 fac, 1 port. I have also been doing this build and it has been working out quite well for me. First I want to share some tweaks that I have done to the build which works well IMO. I skip scouting at all since I believe it doesnt really change the build. This is not great if they build more than 6 lings early but that is rare. I do not get the ebay to wall off, whenever a bust happends or if you are forced to evacuate your natural, it really hurts to have the upgrades cancelled. 1 minute before pushing out I get a 2 more gases. When pushing out I get a reactor on my factory and build a starport, later followed by 2 more barracks. My reasoning is that with well upgraded infantry having quicker medivacs really gives you a lot more options to be agressive after the push. Now on to my question: I find it really hard to hold roach baneling busts. The roaches will scare my hellions off so I dont really know if its pure roach, which I feel confident holding with the amount of units i have. But against roach baneling all in, I really dont know how to spot it, or hold it without taking tons of damage. Moreover sometimes I would hold the push and move out to take map control, but if the zerg has a second wave of units coming i just die out on the map. How do I know if the zerg is macroing behind the push or bringing in more units? Would really appreciate any help or tips/tricks you have when it comes to holding this when doing the demuslim build. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Ebay in the wall is because it has more HP, and more surface area. A bust into an ebay doesn't kill it, like it does bunkers/depots. I haven't had much trouble with roach bane, as early scout dictates if they go gasless, when to expect a 3rd down, if it's not there, I can assume fast lair for mutas/infestors, or roach ling bane bust. I just scan the main, and poke the third, then keep hellions on the map to try and kite around the roaches to see, if in fact a third has dropped, or a slew of lings are on the way. Just walling off, dropping 2-3 bunkers spread out, and keeping my units spread has done well for me. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
The general consensus seems to be about 8-10. I guess a better way to ask what I mean is through a situation. I have a marine/tank/medivac force and I make a push on my opponent, we trade evenly. I lose everything except 6 Medivacs and I have limited resources to reinforce. At what point (x marines) is it work it to spend my money on medivac production once again. (I.e 30 marines with 6 Medivacs would be a better way to spend my money than 20 marines with 8 Medivacs etc) | ||
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ShaneFeit
92 Posts
On June 07 2012 09:48 iAmJeffReY wrote: Scouting 100% effects the build. You can know how greedy you can play, and how long your hellions can be on the map, and when to expect a potential third base. Not to mention sniffing out a ling bane econ bust, or a violet like FE into roach pressure with 3-7 roaches followed by a third. Ebay in the wall is because it has more HP, and more surface area. A bust into an ebay doesn't kill it, like it does bunkers/depots. I haven't had much trouble with roach bane, as early scout dictates if they go gasless, when to expect a 3rd down, if it's not there, I can assume fast lair for mutas/infestors, or roach ling bane bust. I just scan the main, and poke the third, then keep hellions on the map to try and kite around the roaches to see, if in fact a third has dropped, or a slew of lings are on the way. Just walling off, dropping 2-3 bunkers spread out, and keeping my units spread has done well for me. Thanks for responding and posting the build, its really helped me. I used to rely on checking the zergs gas, now I am not very familiar with the zerg builds, however I have encountered several baneling roach busts even though my scouting scv saw no gas taken, which makes life difficult. I think a lot of terrans are having trouble versus zerg at the moment would be great if we could compile some scouting analysis similiar to some great posts here on how to read a protoss from the scv scout (amount of gas, nexus energy, amount of pylons). For instance if you see 2 queens out spreading creep, you can assume zerg is on 4 queens total, does that indicate gasless play or could a roach bane bust still come? thanks! | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 07 2012 02:31 monkybone wrote: The good old reactor hellion opening into expansion is super safe. I use it with good results nowadays. I have meddled with variants of FE into hellions+banshees, sometimes with cloak, sometimes with a raven, and I got to say that I am having a hard time defending against a well executed roach baneling attack, or even quick 7 roaches which can be at your doorstep 7 minutes in. The first banshee won't be out by then. Zerg don't have to do it blind either, it's easy to scout an FE early on. If you have started a wall vs the 7 roach attack, the wall will die and everything you have on the low ground which cannot be lifted. It puts you far behind. This is why (I believe) most pro players don't wall off right away with the FE build. You basically hope that your opponent don't put down the quick roach warren. This build v Zerg seems to be a very weak one in the pro metagame, and I believe that it will fade away pretty fast. Reactor hellion expo to me feels dated and far worse than 1rax FE. The safest way to play 1rax FE is to get a fairly fast siegetech going. What I do is 1rax FE into reactor hellion. If I don't scout a fast 3rd I get siege tech before blueflame (I get 2nd fac and then fast 3rd). With a good wall and well-placed tanks + hellions you can hold any early all-in, and still have a great econ going. I do agree that early roach-rush can be a real pain to deal with. This is why I never ever wall at my expo ramp, I always build a bunker so it covers my nat + main ramp and then build depots from my main ramp to my expansion CC. This is also great against people who go a lot of early lings to disrupt mining, as 2-3 marines in a bunker that covers the entire mineral line will shut down any number of lings and you'll be in a good position macro-wise. Another build I'm actually really digging these days is 1rax FE into 2port banshee. It really punishes quick 3rds but I haven't played it enough to see how safe it is, but it does feel really safe. It might die to early all-ins. I don't know if anyone else does it or if some pro has done it, I just did it on the fly one game and fell in love. Anyone know if it's already been done? All in all though, I find myself going 1rax FE every single TvZ. I just feel like any other build is pointless and will almost never do enough damage to justify itself, so might as well get the fastest possible econ going. I do 15CC sometimes, too. | ||
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ma5ta
United States46 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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DawN883
Sweden558 Posts
On June 07 2012 14:47 ma5ta wrote: i like how the spades thread has more pages than this thread which started over a year ago. Is that even slightly important? | ||
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ma5ta
United States46 Posts
Nope just pointing it out  | ||
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Beezleking
Canada91 Posts
On June 07 2012 02:27 avantoux wrote: how to defend a baneling bust all in one base with an helion reactor opening? I failed everytime. I can defend it very well with a 1rax FE into 3 rax (i used to wall the nat with my raxes) but with helion opening i can't I know this is vague but here it goes. When you first scout is there an expansion going up and is he still mining gas after zerglings are out? If there is no expansion and he is mining gas after zerglings are out its time to wait and do more scouting. At the 4:30 mark is when the nest should be put down but you never know it could be delayed. If he's going for a 2base bust the nest should be put down around 6mins? I usually scan around that time to see but even it's still up it may not be used. If you do manage to scout it (or if your opponent stops all attempts at scouting) you should get siege tanks and siege mode. Timings: 4:30 1base baneling nest 6:00 2base baneling nest 45 seconds for a siege tank 80 seconds for siege mode I have not been busted in a while but Im pretty sure you should prioritize your wall. And keeping it wall. If you've expanded on the low ground and can't maintain the position lift your cc and dont really fight for it until you've got enough to easily defend yourself. (I hope my timings are right // someone please tell me) | ||
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