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On April 18 2012 04:54 leather gracket wrote: how to defend a 1base warp prism-4gate all-in if you go gasless 1rax FE (into 3 rax)? and how do I scout it early enough?
Scouting it is basically impossible especially since there are many variations (1 gas, 2 gas, proxy robo), but 1 gas + high chrono boost + lack of a third pylon in his base when his stalker is on the way is a good indication. If he does it off 1 gas he'll have mostly zealots so you need to turtle at your mineral line and try to abuse chokes made by your buildings. If he does it off 2 gas you should have more marauders, maybe even a bunker in your main, but you can normally just pull SCVs and crush the first wave. Consider adding 2 more barracks as soon as you know he's 1-base all-in. Most common mistakes are to not wait for enough units to be out before trying to engage, and mining too much gas.
well, thanks. in the last game I lost to this was 1 gas. 1 chrono boost was saved when I left the base at 4:15. he however had a 3rd pylon in his base and he could afford to warp in 4 stalker, and 4 zealots the next round. pretty much the imba white-ra build from ipl3.. I'm losing to such crap all the time, to master protoss with 50apm.. so frustrating.
when there's 2 gas, I'm always prepared for cheese. but this 1 gas let's it look like a 1 gate nexus build. the all-in comes very early, at 6:30, that's usually the time where I put down a scan to see what he's doing.
does anyone have replays where 1base warp prism 4gate all-in gets deafeated when opening with 1rax FE ? I've been searching through some replay packs but couldn't find any.
edit: found a pro replay, there the terran lost though, so you guys can at least imagine how that all-in looks like when it's not interrupted (like in the mma-white-ra game) sjow vs hero http://drop.sc/69796
On April 16 2012 07:59 Klonere wrote: I know I posted on the last page as well but I just played two TvPs against the same guy and lost both and am not sure how again.
Game 1: He goes blink stalker, I defend pretty well, don't think I lose too many SCVs, get stim up, he does snipe my medivacs as they come out though and this leads me to miss my timing to kill him I think. Go to his natural he has expo'd, but with lots of sentries to defend. Then he just gets a bunch of colossus and rolls me over.
2 rax vs 3 gate blink: defendable if you're at home, but moving out is dangerous. you made the right choice staying at home.
at 7:30 when you saw 5 stalkers that should have been an indication of a blink allin (DTs, VR, or Colo won't have that many stalkers this early).
Engaging him in the open field is ballsy. However, you cut units during that time, which puts you behind. furthermore, at 8:15 you have only 24 scvs. you can make 3.5 scvs per minute, which means by 8 minutes you should have built 25 scvs, plus the 6 you started with, putting you at 29 (since two scouting scvs died). Somehow you are at 24 scvs, having cut 5 scvs. If you weren't cutting you'd have 20% more income. FYI
He blinks in, you trade some units, etc-- but really you're still not making scvs, no starport started, no 3rd barracks. you're still ahead at this point (10:00)
as an aside, if he's shooting up a cliff like that, you can scan and kill an observer.
don't pull mules to fight.
so at 12:50 his expo is up and you're like super massively ahead after brutally crushing his army. you're even on workers but have mules, and you have more army. your medivacs should already be out-- this would let you heal, scout, and seize map control.
they are not.
you start your medivacs much later at 14:00
at 16:00, running in is dangerous. Feel free to trap him on 2 bases while taking your third.
in the end, as he started to get colossi, a few mistakes:
1) not making vikings early enough 2) pulling back from the open area outside his nat (you can wait until he pushes out to do this) 3) no major drops attempts to keep him contained 4) engaged in a choked area, didn't protect vikings from stalkers 5) your starport was idle for 6-7 years before you started making stuff
lost you the game. also at the end of an 18 minute game you had only like 50 workers, though your opponent wasn't much better off you could have done better.
On April 16 2012 07:59 Klonere wrote: Game 2: Same guy, one game later, I open 2 rax again, thinking he'd try the same build, so I could be more aggressive as he got blink out. Turns out he isn't and has an immortal and a bunch of sentries which shuts down my aggression again. He then goes for a colossus all-in that completely wrecks me. No way to have vikings out in time or anything. Don't know if I could have stopped this with anything
I don't think I had a major macro slip in either game.
7:15 you're in his natural with your 2 rax and he' HAS NOT EXPANDED. THIS MEANS YOU NEED TO BAIL. YOU NEED TO BAIL LIKE A DUDE IN JAIL. I'M TOTALLY SERIOUS. RUN.
OH MY GOD WHY AREN'T YOU RUNNING
NO NO PLEASE RUN DONT STAY
SWEET MARY MOTHER OF JESUS DONT GO UP THE RAMP
OH NOOOOO
oh, whew, you're leaving. ok.
OH NO WAIT YOU CAME BACK WHY DID YOU COME BACK??? HE HASNT EXPANDED. YOU NEED TO BAIL. WHY ARENT YOU BAILING
dear sweet jesus why are you in this man's nat?? your'e literally expanding, don't dont
oh good you scanned. you're leaving. excellent.
medicads start on time! great.
11:45 you see lance colossi. time to start vikings, make bunkers, etc.
...no response. you pull back to your nat though. seriously dude make a bunker.
12:10 start vikingsssss omg start vikings plz
running out of your base to try to focus fire his colossus with your marines in front was a critical error. bunkers + vikings would have held this.
would it be a good idea to stim to intercept a enemy army or let them come to you? my thought process is that i can get a better concave if my units are the ones moving and get a surround... one of the cons that im thinking is that i usually get out of range of my tanks... so my question is should i be the aggressor and get the concave, or stay in the protection of my tanks?
I just started playing this game yesterday and am new to RTS in general(played Wc3 for campaign lol), although I've had it installed for a few months but I never played it. I decided to watch my first SC2 match/stream today and it was SelecT, so I tried to use that as something to go off of.
However, I just finished my first online match ever and I can already tell I made loads of mistakes, but I was wondering if anyone could recommend me on where I should focus my play on the most for now. Here's the replay, thanks!
On April 18 2012 14:53 Terranoob wrote: When people say Marine Tank, do they mean the composition is only marines and tanks or a high ratio of them compared to medivaks and marauders etc?
In TvT/TvZ it's marine tank medivac. In TvP, it's an all in that is litterally just marine tank (banshee)
On April 18 2012 18:54 boppel wrote: 1/1/1 opening still playable vs any matchup ? or should i train 1 rex FE vs every matchup ?
Vs Protoss you must win with the 1-1-1 before the 11-12 minute mark because, High Templar / colossi are so devastating to it. Once he has storm or thermal lance it's so easy to dismantle your siege position. I would say the longer the game goes on the less viable 111 becomes. The general protoss knows how to deal with it now and it's severely weaker than it used to be.
Vs Zerg it is most devastating, especially banshee / blue flame transitions and variants. Still relatively unexplored I feel, and gives you a solid lead early on and most importantly, strong map control.
Vs Terran again, great opener and leaves you safe from just about everything. The only thing you have to watch out for is super fast expanding opponent and not getting to far behind in economy.
On April 17 2012 21:47 polybios wrote: I always thought the magic box is relevant only for mutas and air units. just now after watching MKP micro and some testing I've realized it works the same way for ground units. I thought ground units clump no matter what. I feel like a noob How could I not notice this in 700 games?
Yep this is true. Have you figured out something specifc you feel you want to share?
Pros' marine split always seemed to me as too good with too little actions. I've realized that with magic box you can split into 4 groups just by select > move > select > move (without stop command):
by MKP:
I always thought the second move command would clump selected units (which it does sadly, but only if selected group exceeds magic box boundaries).
Edit: another surprise for me was that formation is restored when units clump during movement.
On April 17 2012 21:47 polybios wrote: I always thought the magic box is relevant only for mutas and air units. just now after watching MKP micro and some testing I've realized it works the same way for ground units. I thought ground units clump no matter what. I feel like a noob How could I not notice this in 700 games?
Yep this is true. Have you figured out something specifc you feel you want to share?
Pros' marine split always seemed to me as too good with too little actions. I've realized that with magic box you can split into 4 groups just by select > move > select > move (without stop command):
I always thought the second move command would clump selected units (which it does sadly, but only if selected group exceeds magic box boundaries).
Edit: another surprise for me was that formation is restored when units clump during movement.
Thank you for sharing, basically what one would like to do is figure out the magic box for marines to keep the formation and always split in those boxes, making your marines keep spreading with minimal actions.
On April 17 2012 21:47 polybios wrote: I always thought the magic box is relevant only for mutas and air units. just now after watching MKP micro and some testing I've realized it works the same way for ground units. I thought ground units clump no matter what. I feel like a noob How could I not notice this in 700 games?
Yep this is true. Have you figured out something specifc you feel you want to share?
Pros' marine split always seemed to me as too good with too little actions. I've realized that with magic box you can split into 4 groups just by select > move > select > move (without stop command):
ok so a very basic question.. what is the current best unit composition against zerg mass upgraded lings into infestors into infestor broodlord? im struggling a lot with that as i havent play for a while and i feel like marine tank is not very effective against this.
I can't win a TvZ for the life of me, I probably have about a 10% win rate as a Diamond player(my TvP/T is 60% win rate). Plat Zergs don't have a problem beating me and the match up is becoming very annoying for me because I'm so awful at it. Anyone have an general tips for improvement other than practicing marine splitting? It seems every type of pressure I put on just gets completely annihilated. Currently I'm opening 1 rax expand, into stim+cs and 2-3 tank push that hits around 10:30ish and I never have any luck with it, the Zerg player almost always comes out ahead. I usually try to follow it up by taking my third while doing some drop harass but that doesn't seem to be working for me either. By the time I move out again the Zerg player usually has infestors, loads of banes, and is teching up to hive and I basically lose. Totally lost in this match up and any advice would be very appreciated.
On April 19 2012 03:53 Stress wrote: I can't win a TvZ for the life of me, I probably have about a 10% win rate as a Diamond player(my TvP/T is 60% win rate). Plat Zergs don't have a problem beating me and the match up is becoming very annoying for me because I'm so awful at it. Anyone have an general tips for improvement other than practicing marine splitting? It seems every type of pressure I put on just gets completely annihilated. Currently I'm opening 1 rax expand, into stim+cs and 2-3 tank push that hits around 10:30ish and I never have any luck with it, the Zerg player almost always comes out ahead. I usually try to follow it up by taking my third while doing some drop harass but that doesn't seem to be working for me either. By the time I move out his match up and any advice would be very appreciated.
The most likely reason for your losses is that you are given the zerg too much time to drone while not pressuring enough early on. By the time your 10:30 push comes they have good drone saturation with enough units to hold you off.(NOTE! PURE speculation a replay would be a lot more helpful) You should try using hellion builds into fast 3cc they allow you to deny the zergs 3rd and even though you might not kill drones with the hellions you will be even or ahead of the 2 basing zerg with your 3 scv production and mules. If you want a nice guide on this style I recommend this day[9] daily. What I have personally been doing in this matchup is bombers style mixed with one of mma's openers.
The opener that I use is 1 rax reaper expand, after the cc is down you switch the rax and start building a reactor with it while building the factory on the tech lab. If you scout an all in with the reaper you build seige tanks with reactored marines and if you scout standard play you transition into reactored hellions while going with bombers 3cc style show in the daily. This makes the 3cc style a little safer but the opening is not a big deal as day[9] mentions.
On April 19 2012 03:53 Stress wrote: I can't win a TvZ for the life of me, I probably have about a 10% win rate as a Diamond player(my TvP/T is 60% win rate). Plat Zergs don't have a problem beating me and the match up is becoming very annoying for me because I'm so awful at it. Anyone have an general tips for improvement other than practicing marine splitting? It seems every type of pressure I put on just gets completely annihilated. Currently I'm opening 1 rax expand, into stim+cs and 2-3 tank push that hits around 10:30ish and I never have any luck with it, the Zerg player almost always comes out ahead. I usually try to follow it up by taking my third while doing some drop harass but that doesn't seem to be working for me either. By the time I move out again the Zerg player usually has infestors, loads of banes, and is teching up to hive and I basically lose. Totally lost in this match up and any advice would be very appreciated.
Go back a few pages and find the BO and reps I posted. Trust me, that will change your TvZ.
EPT
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