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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On April 17 2012 20:31 dotDash wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 20:18 KenDM wrote:Guys what do I do against a Baneling Bust? I scouted it and made a CC in the wall as well as a Bunker. So much for the bunker it didn't do jack. Tank also didn't have Siege mode yet. Was there any way I could have scoutet a Baneling Bust even earlier than I did? What is the correct response to it? http://drop.sc/161403 @4min - You saw no expo and more gas than 100 gathered.. => either roach bust or baneling bust. So thats good. I am not entirely sure what you are trying to do with your opener, but I would advice you to delay that second gas and get a factory as soon as you hit 100gas. @6:30 - You saw shitton of lings with your scouting marine, once again good job with the scouting! Now your wall.. it's.. terrible compared to what you could have. I really like the command centre but HATE that you aint using your factory and rax as a part of the wall. Do that and you will soon realize why zergs stopped doing this. Also, the bunker might wanna be behind the wall itself.. so IF he breaks through you have a bunker ready. Feel free to even throw down another bunker with a total of 2. General notes: A well executed blingbust should be at your door at around 5:30. If you go for a 10depo, 12rax, 13gas, fac@100gas you will have handful of rines and one hellion. This, together will a proper wall, should be enough to hold a blingbust. Do NOT count on getting tanks in time for the first bust, maybe for second or third. Good luck! Dan
Id like to add that marauders really help, i tend to put up a tech lab asap when i scout an incoming bust (as they do well vs raoches and banelings)
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I always thought the magic box is relevant only for mutas and air units. just now after watching MKP micro and some testing I've realized it works the same way for ground units. I thought ground units clump no matter what. I feel like a noob  How could I not notice this in 700 games?
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On April 17 2012 02:37 dotDash wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 22:52 saaaa wrote:On April 13 2012 19:11 saaaa wrote:
i play 2 different builds in TvZ with Mech. The first one is the No Gas FE -> 2 Fac BF Hellion+ 2 Armory into fast 3rd from MKP and the second one is no gas fe -> reactor hellion FE+Cloak Banshee.
What should i prefer and on which maps? I mean should i take the risk to just kill him with my 10 BF Hellion attack and even it not i have 6 factories pumping double upgraded mech units. Or should i go and use the cloak banshee to maybe do some eco damage (force spores and pick some drones/queens) and deny him his 3rd until he have overseer/mutas? But i don't have the gas to go so fast double upgrades.
I dont know what is more worth it. What should i prefer and on what maps? anyone? I get a feeling of that the 2fac bf hellions sounds good on maps where the expansions are wide open and such. Basically maps with bigger advantage to hellionplay. The second build is good on maps where the expansions arent that exposed but the map itself is still pretty big. That way you can exploit the mobilty of the hellions and banshees. Hope it assisted some about the mapchoice atleast. Cheers Dan
thx for your help..
On what maps should you prefer the bf hellion style and on which the cloak banshee according to the current map pool?
and if it is possible to play both styles with should i do then? I'm really not sure.
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How are you supposed to beat Protoss who just sit in their choke and max out then a move?
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On April 18 2012 02:25 RmoteCntrld wrote:
How are you supposed to beat Protoss who just sit in their choke and max out then a move?
There's a thread called 'Simple Questions, Simple Answers' or something similar
go find it
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On April 17 2012 21:47 polybios wrote:I always thought the magic box is relevant only for mutas and air units. just now after watching MKP micro and some testing I've realized it works the same way for ground units. I thought ground units clump no matter what. I feel like a noob How could I not notice this in 700 games?
Yep this is true. Have you figured out something specifc you feel you want to share?
On April 18 2012 02:13 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:37 dotDash wrote:On April 16 2012 22:52 saaaa wrote:On April 13 2012 19:11 saaaa wrote:
i play 2 different builds in TvZ with Mech. The first one is the No Gas FE -> 2 Fac BF Hellion+ 2 Armory into fast 3rd from MKP and the second one is no gas fe -> reactor hellion FE+Cloak Banshee.
What should i prefer and on which maps? I mean should i take the risk to just kill him with my 10 BF Hellion attack and even it not i have 6 factories pumping double upgraded mech units. Or should i go and use the cloak banshee to maybe do some eco damage (force spores and pick some drones/queens) and deny him his 3rd until he have overseer/mutas? But i don't have the gas to go so fast double upgrades.
I dont know what is more worth it. What should i prefer and on what maps? anyone? I get a feeling of that the 2fac bf hellions sounds good on maps where the expansions are wide open and such. Basically maps with bigger advantage to hellionplay. The second build is good on maps where the expansions arent that exposed but the map itself is still pretty big. That way you can exploit the mobilty of the hellions and banshees. Hope it assisted some about the mapchoice atleast. Cheers Dan thx for your help.. On what maps should you prefer the bf hellion style and on which the cloak banshee according to the current map pool? and if it is possible to play both styles with should i do then? I'm really not sure.
Tal'darim and Metalopolis are both pretty darn good maps for hellions. Metal's natural is wide open while Tal'darim has rocks on the third and also is a huge map. The rest have quite hard natural to get to imo... unless you plan on denying 3rds ofc. I personally run with reactor hellion into cloaksee on all maps.
You really should play what you feel is fun.
Cheers
Dan
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how to defend a 1base warp prism-4gate all-in if you go gasless 1rax FE (into 3 rax)?
and how do I scout it early enough?
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On April 18 2012 02:40 Huggerz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 02:25 RmoteCntrld wrote:
How are you supposed to beat Protoss who just sit in their choke and max out then a move? There's a thread called 'Simple Questions, Simple Answers' or something similar go find it
Thanks for taking the effort to respond to my post, it was exactly what I was looking for.
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Well you scout the lack of nexus, you don't quite know what is coming, but put down a 4th rax and pump marines. Marines deal with everything early game.
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On April 18 2012 02:25 RmoteCntrld wrote:
How are you supposed to beat Protoss who just sit in their choke and max out then a move?
Max out yourself, make a concave, EMP everything and win.
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On April 18 2012 02:25 RmoteCntrld wrote:
How are you supposed to beat Protoss who just sit in their choke and max out then a move?
Sounds like they're turtling, so why not take a fast 3rd and deny theirs. If they want a 3rd they cant just camp 1 ramp the whole time. If they're taking a third they're probably going to be somehwere on more open terrain where they can be flanked. That or they're further away from good drop harass locations.
Anyway, personally, for TvP, I go gasless FE into 3 rax and go for a timing push with MMM+Stim+Shields. I push out with 2 meds at 9:00 and stim and CS finish as about 9:30, right when I arrive at their nat. I can expand behind that and deny they're 3rd at least. If they're greedy, I can often straight up kill them. If they're turtled up, I can drop they're main, deny their third, or at least use drops on their main to help pin them at home while I expand safely and get ghosts or vikings as needed.
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Anybody have an opening build order or two that are really good for each matchup?
I mostly need one for TvP, but some for TvZ and TvT are welcome as well
I am planning on starting up as a terran as I want to see how I can fare with other races, so help is appreciated. Thanks!
Also, any general tips are welcome as well.
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On April 18 2012 07:28 TheRabidDeer wrote:Anybody have an opening build order or two that are really good for each matchup? I mostly need one for TvP, but some for TvZ and TvT are welcome as well I am planning on starting up as a terran as I want to see how I can fare with other races, so help is appreciated. Thanks! Also, any general tips are welcome as well.
TvP: Gasless FE into 3 Rax (lots of variations on MMM and upgrades).
TvZ: Gasless FE or Reactor Hellion. Early hellion pressure into marine-tank
TvT: 1-1-1 of some flavor, (or Gasless FE into marine-tank, but its frustrating at first)
Advice versus:
P: learn to love your dropships and EMPs. Composition is sooo important, and you have really be on top of adjusting it and reacting to their units. Respect robotics tech and be sure to have lots of vikings if you see collosus (like 3:1 ratio). You need lots of marines if they go chargelot heavy.
Z: Ling, bling muta can be painful to learn. Controlling your army well literally makes the difference between your army ruling or getting completely decimated. Splitting is fine, but target firing blings with tanks is SOOOO important. Make spacebar a control group selector and put your tanks on that one. Hellions are really key for early pressure, map control and roasting lings. Finally, be ready for the muta switch around 10 mins. Get that ebay down in time, get turrets up, marine ball in a central location, and then get that armory for a thor or two.
Stay the f@#$ off of creep. Go to the edge, kill tumors, and slow push it. Spread out your tanks and army BEFORE the swarm comes to rape you.
T: If you FE, siege pushes from a 1-1-1 can be really tough as you're learning. You need to DELAY them while you get your tank and viking up and running. Sac a bunker. Slowly give ground to buy time. Dont try to kill them. Repair your tank/viking.
Other threats are early drops and banshees. Scan in the 6:00 - 6:20 range to try and see if he's going banshees. Keep your army more central if a drop is coming so you can respond fast.
If you hold off the early aggression an early base almost always puts you significantly ahead and then you can go set up a contain at their base. Contains are sooo strong in TvT and even TvZ.
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On April 18 2012 04:54 leather gracket wrote:
how to defend a 1base warp prism-4gate all-in if you go gasless 1rax FE (into 3 rax)?
and how do I scout it early enough?
Scouting it is basically impossible especially since there are many variations (1 gas, 2 gas, proxy robo), but 1 gas + high chrono boost + lack of a third pylon in his base when his stalker is on the way is a good indication. If he does it off 1 gas he'll have mostly zealots so you need to turtle at your mineral line and try to abuse chokes made by your buildings. If he does it off 2 gas you should have more marauders, maybe even a bunker in your main, but you can normally just pull SCVs and crush the first wave. Consider adding 2 more barracks as soon as you know he's 1-base all-in. Most common mistakes are to not wait for enough units to be out before trying to engage, and mining too much gas.
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How to deal with Brood lords at the end of the games now? Vikings simply just get fungalled and corruptored (if that's a word). Multi-prong drops just doesnt help you when there are 15 brood lords knocking at your front door. 
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Cloaked ghosts and EMPs?
Is Avilo still having success with his Raven/Viking/Ghost end-game?
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On April 18 2012 02:25 RmoteCntrld wrote:
How are you supposed to beat Protoss who just sit in their choke and max out then a move?
It would be useful to find out their army comp, but in general terms expand everywhere, so then you can start to trade inefficiently and replenish quickly without it really hurting you. Basically, you continue to pressure and attack, and kill expensive units with long build times like colossi. You can just expand, expand, expand, and macro like a boss, and just continue to hammer away at them, with drops and straight up attacks, sometimes in combination, until you gain a massive army lead, and then just go and kill them.
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On April 18 2012 07:51 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 02:25 RmoteCntrld wrote:
How are you supposed to beat Protoss who just sit in their choke and max out then a move? It would be useful to find out their army comp, but in general terms expand everywhere, so then you can start to trade inefficiently and replenish quickly without it really hurting you. Basically, you continue to pressure and attack, and kill expensive units with long build times like colossi. You can just expand, expand, expand, and macro like a boss, and just continue to hammer away at them, with drops and straight up attacks, sometimes in combination, until you gain a massive army lead, and then just go and kill them.
You can't do that. You can't trade at all efficiently, or even inefficiently with a 3 base turtle toss. It's not possible. Chargelot/collsai/HT/archon will not take any damage if they're in a defensive posture. You just lose all your units for nothing. HT + collsai holding ramps is game over for any push you try.
Hence why 3 base turtle toss is the ultimate hard thing to beat in TvP. You can't just keep throwing units away, due to warp gates and chrono, he can move out after a 'trade' and just forward pylon you and faceroll.
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On April 18 2012 07:48 Smackzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 07:28 TheRabidDeer wrote:Anybody have an opening build order or two that are really good for each matchup? I mostly need one for TvP, but some for TvZ and TvT are welcome as well I am planning on starting up as a terran as I want to see how I can fare with other races, so help is appreciated. Thanks! Also, any general tips are welcome as well. TvP: Gasless FE into 3 Rax (lots of variations on MMM and upgrades). TvZ: Gasless FE or Reactor Hellion. Early hellion pressure into marine-tank TvT: 1-1-1 of some flavor, (or Gasless FE into marine-tank, but its frustrating at first) Advice versus: P: learn to love your dropships and EMPs. Composition is sooo important, and you have really be on top of adjusting it and reacting to their units. Respect robotics tech and be sure to have lots of vikings if you see collosus (like 3:1 ratio). You need lots of marines if they go chargelot heavy. Z: Ling, bling muta can be painful to learn. Controlling your army well literally makes the difference between your army ruling or getting completely decimated. Splitting is fine, but target firing blings with tanks is SOOOO important. Make spacebar a control group selector and put your tanks on that one. Hellions are really key for early pressure, map control and roasting lings. Finally, be ready for the muta switch around 10 mins. Get that ebay down in time, get turrets up, marine ball in a central location, and then get that armory for a thor or two. Stay the f@#$ off of creep. Go to the edge, kill tumors, and slow push it. Spread out your tanks and army BEFORE the swarm comes to rape you. T: If you FE, siege pushes from a 1-1-1 can be really tough as you're learning. You need to DELAY them while you get your tank and viking up and running. Sac a bunker. Slowly give ground to buy time. Dont try to kill them. Repair your tank/viking. Other threats are early drops and banshees. Scan in the 6:00 - 6:20 range to try and see if he's going banshees. Keep your army more central if a drop is coming so you can respond fast. If you hold off the early aggression an early base almost always puts you significantly ahead and then you can go set up a contain at their base. Contains are sooo strong in TvT and even TvZ.
What are some of the gas timings for the builds?
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On April 18 2012 08:04 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 07:48 Smackzilla wrote:On April 18 2012 07:28 TheRabidDeer wrote:Anybody have an opening build order or two that are really good for each matchup? I mostly need one for TvP, but some for TvZ and TvT are welcome as well I am planning on starting up as a terran as I want to see how I can fare with other races, so help is appreciated. Thanks! Also, any general tips are welcome as well. TvP: Gasless FE into 3 Rax (lots of variations on MMM and upgrades). TvZ: Gasless FE or Reactor Hellion. Early hellion pressure into marine-tank TvT: 1-1-1 of some flavor, (or Gasless FE into marine-tank, but its frustrating at first) Advice versus: P: learn to love your dropships and EMPs. Composition is sooo important, and you have really be on top of adjusting it and reacting to their units. Respect robotics tech and be sure to have lots of vikings if you see collosus (like 3:1 ratio). You need lots of marines if they go chargelot heavy. Z: Ling, bling muta can be painful to learn. Controlling your army well literally makes the difference between your army ruling or getting completely decimated. Splitting is fine, but target firing blings with tanks is SOOOO important. Make spacebar a control group selector and put your tanks on that one. Hellions are really key for early pressure, map control and roasting lings. Finally, be ready for the muta switch around 10 mins. Get that ebay down in time, get turrets up, marine ball in a central location, and then get that armory for a thor or two. Stay the f@#$ off of creep. Go to the edge, kill tumors, and slow push it. Spread out your tanks and army BEFORE the swarm comes to rape you. T: If you FE, siege pushes from a 1-1-1 can be really tough as you're learning. You need to DELAY them while you get your tank and viking up and running. Sac a bunker. Slowly give ground to buy time. Dont try to kill them. Repair your tank/viking. Other threats are early drops and banshees. Scan in the 6:00 - 6:20 range to try and see if he's going banshees. Keep your army more central if a drop is coming so you can respond fast. If you hold off the early aggression an early base almost always puts you significantly ahead and then you can go set up a contain at their base. Contains are sooo strong in TvT and even TvZ. What are some of the gas timings for the builds?
The gasless FEs kinda make things easy to remember, luckily.
TvP: get 3 raxes, then 2x refinery. Then spend gas as you get it on fact, stim, then shields if you want fast medivacs. Honestly, there's lots of ways to spend that gas vs protoss. You'll typically take your 3rd refinery while you're building your starport (maybe even just prior) and your factory is building a reactor for your port.
TvZ: 2x refinery right after your 2nd CC. Again, lots of ways to spend the gas, but typically it means fast fact and reactor for hellions. Personally, I'm trying out something like: 2nd rax, *then* 2x refinery, and then prioritizing stim, fact, reactor on 2nd rax, and doing a stim timing with marines, hellions, marauders around 8:30. I've also done drewbie's BF hellion TvZ build.
TvT: 2x refinery right after 2nd CC. Fact ASAP, tech lab on rax. Swap rax and fact and get tank and siege tech ASAP. Start port ASAP and start a viking. Not having any delays here is really important if you're worried about a 1-base siege push from your opponent. Oh, and I like to start refinery 3 and 4 very soon after my natural is up. Sooooo much gas is needed for TvT marine-tank.
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EPT
