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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:57 iAmJeffReY wrote: Go back a few pages and find the BO and reps I posted. Trust me, that will change your TvZ. I think this is it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251694¤tpage=197#3935 | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:53 Stress wrote: I can't win a TvZ for the life of me, I probably have about a 10% win rate as a Diamond player(my TvP/T is 60% win rate). Plat Zergs don't have a problem beating me and the match up is becoming very annoying for me because I'm so awful at it. Anyone have an general tips for improvement other than practicing marine splitting? It seems every type of pressure I put on just gets completely annihilated. Currently I'm opening 1 rax expand, into stim+cs and 2-3 tank push that hits around 10:30ish and I never have any luck with it, the Zerg player almost always comes out ahead. I usually try to follow it up by taking my third while doing some drop harass but that doesn't seem to be working for me either. By the time I move out again the Zerg player usually has infestors, loads of banes, and is teching up to hive and I basically lose. Totally lost in this match up and any advice would be very appreciated. Sounds like you're being too passive. What are you doing to zerg prior to that 10:30 push? If the answer is nothing, that's likely your problem. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
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Solo Terran
367 Posts
On April 19 2012 13:32 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: There is a game of Demuslim beating DongRaeGu on Tal Darim at MLG providence where he goes pure bio. It's really micro intensive and requires insane splitting. How should one play pure bio in a TvZ? I really don't like to use tanks and I would really love it if someone could link me to a guide or something similar about playing pure bio vs zerg. | ||
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Hexadecimal
Canada55 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10292 Posts
On April 19 2012 13:32 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: How should one play pure bio in a TvZ? I really don't like to use tanks and I would really love it if someone could link me to a guide or something similar about playing pure bio vs zerg. Watch MKP's games. Because of his extremely good micro (it is fucking good), he can make these styles work. I would not recommend it though. You would need really really good micro, something that you may need to put extra time into working on first. MKP's splitting and kiting is insane. I'm talking about spitting groups of units into 5-10 and kitting multiple groups simultaneously. Well he does this in TvP too, and if you watch him often you probably know what I mean xD Basically he will pressure the entire game (opening with an aggressive opener as well). I'm not sure what the weakness is, but even when the opponent goes infestors he just keeps making bio and trading. (Because of this, I'm not sure what is the "proper" response, infestors or mutas, or maybe both work). Also, fast drops of course! ^^ I can't name any games off the top of my head unfortunately, but if you watch his GSL games you should be able to find one after a few minutes. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 19 2012 15:55 Hexadecimal wrote: Are you suppose to put down a bunker at your ramp in TvT when you go cloaked banshee? Typically, no. If you're worried about an early frontalattack though, yes. Most of the time your opponent will be doing some sort of expand build, or a build that a bunker can't stop (banshees, hellion drop)-- it's scouting-dependent. | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
I find that unless I decided to go for a 5 rax follow-up with scv cutting to pump out a shit ton of marines early it's impossible to hold, so when is the best time to scan his base? | ||
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Ambre
France416 Posts
On April 10 2012 05:25 iAmJeffReY wrote: Here are some reps of it. Let me post those, then I'll tack out a BO if I can get it down. http://drop.sc/155688 on friends name smurfing against 800 masters Z. http://drop.sc/150357 1k zerg http://drop.sc/150359 1.1k zerg http://drop.sc/150360 900pt zerg http://drop.sc/156972 against a good practice partner friend http://drop.sc/156973 friends teammate 650 zerg http://drop.sc/156971 1.1k zerg on keyd http://drop.sc/157028 1k zerg mass ling bling -> ling bling muta intense game (22 min game, not a single tank made) Watch those reps. Stop being passive, it isn't easy to win that way unless you have baller macro and micro to control a huge army against ling infestor / ling bling muta / ultra ling bling etc etc 10 depot 12 rax Right before rax finishes, take a guy off minerals to scout (~15 supply) 16 gas 17 marine 17 depot 17 OC 18 marine 19 scv 20 marine (Upon zerg base - note gas, pool timing, and hatch timing. Keep SCV alive and just run around, he's to check if the spine crawler or not. If no spine, move out at 4 marines 1 scv. If spine, 3 marine 1 scv.) 21 scv 22 CC at natural 22 marine 22 factory 23 reactor on rax 24 depot low ground (start forming a wall off) (Constant scv production) 25 rax (tech lab immediately after one is done) 25 rax (factory stays naked, constant hellions gain mapcontrol+ scout for roaches) 39 (or 3/4 tech lab being done) ebay -> +1 attack once it's done. Tech lab -> stim immediately Remember you're on 2 base, making 3 marines 1 hellion 2 scvs per production cycle, so 2 depots at a time, no supply blocks. This is where I deviate from demuslim, as I go marauders into the mix for a heavy punch. Once ebay is done, tech lab rax now makes only marauders. ~20-30 seconds on +1, start 2nd tech lab -> CS once it's done. ~9 min (72-78 supply 3rd CC starts) -> start gas 2 and 3 as well as rax 4 and 5. I hit around 10-1030 with 6-8 hellions, 6-8 marauders, 24-28 marines. Stim, cs, +1. +1 armor starts after +1 attack, I also get a 2nd factory, land first factory on a tech lab and start blue flame + hellions if I see ling infestor. If ling bling, muta ling bling, anything with any amount of blings, I get tanks and hellions. From here out, it's on you. You're set up with 5 rax, 2 fac, and a port whenever you start it. You can forgo fast 2nd fac for a starport (against blings/mutas I do so). Start ebay #2 and armory at about 70% +1 armor being done. And just for any doubt/reference I'm currently 1k+ masters ATM, trying for top8 1.1k this season. edit -- don't know WHAT the fuck this guy was doing. 1.1k zerg that lost like 2 OLs and 6 lings to 4 marine poke -> then 2 hellion run by killed 8+ drones. What to do with this build after you do early game damage like that? Marauder/hellion all in., http://drop.sc/157009 example vs 1.1k Z Thanks a lot ! I ve watch a couple of replays, this build seems so fluid, I love it ! Gonna try it today  | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On April 19 2012 18:12 Ambre wrote: Thanks a lot ! I ve watch a couple of replays, this build seems so fluid, I love it ! Gonna try it today I shall ladder today if my wife starts to feel better, and actually craft up a guide for this build then. Nothing is better than all us terrans learning we don't really need too many tanks against those bugs. | ||
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Southwards
United States49 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 20 2012 03:17 Southwards wrote: I'm a Diamond Zerg who just started playing Terran and I don't understand why pros don't go marine/tank/medivac vs Protoss? So what I think you do is spread siege tanks abit, bait protoss army (before collosus) then stim away let tanks hit protoss ball and keep on doing this and reinforce with more marines? All I see on streams is marine/maurader/medivac and I don't understand how that is better than marine/tank/medivac? When you go MMM you just get owned by forcefields if you try engage up a ramp or if you get caught it's gg lose all your army? At least when you go marine/tank/medivac you can do small seige contain, drop a group of marines in a mineral line to split protoss army etc overall it seems way better than MMM to me, am I missing something? Although Marine-Tank-Medivac (or marine/tank/banshee) can be viable as a 1- or 2- base play, as you enter the midgame, the game becomes focussed around Protoss splash units: colossi, archons, and HTs. Typically these must be fought using Vikings and Ghosts, which, combined with double upgrades, absorbs most of your gas. Tanks typically aren't an option. The other thing has to do with the terran playstyle in TvP. Terran armies are quick and mobile, and get superior positioning and map control against the Protoss armies. Protoss plays like Rock and Terran plays like Water-- you flow, pull back where he is strong and strike where he is weak. By abusing the fact that the Protoss army must stick together and has slow-moving elements, the Terran player brutalizes the Protoss, dropping him, flanking him, and generally making him sorry he didn't pick Terran when he started Sc2. Tanks are far, far too slow to do this awesome and hilarious playstyle ;_; and so they go unused in the lategame. If you have the mechanics for it, (storm dodging, splitting, kitting, flanking, dropping), bio outmuscles mech in all ways that count, and give terran unmatched flexibility and access to ghosts and vikings. This is why the pros use it. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On April 20 2012 03:17 Southwards wrote: I'm a Diamond Zerg who just started playing Terran and I don't understand why pros don't go marine/tank/medivac vs Protoss? So what I think you do is spread siege tanks abit, bait protoss army (before collosus) then stim away let tanks hit protoss ball and keep on doing this and reinforce with more marines? All I see on streams is marine/maurader/medivac and I don't understand how that is better than marine/tank/medivac? When you go MMM you just get owned by forcefields if you try engage up a ramp or if you get caught it's gg lose all your army? At least when you go marine/tank/medivac you can do small seige contain, drop a group of marines in a mineral line to split protoss army etc overall it seems way better than MMM to me, am I missing something? Later in the game mass marine gets owned by splash and tanks don't do well against collosi. You can't really afford marine tank viking and upgrades for both while getting ghost. Even if you could tanks don't do well against any toss unit except stalkers which toss don't really make anymore. Mauraders concussive shell is important against chargelots. Theres just one hundred reason not to use tanks. | ||
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LayZRR
Germany449 Posts
can someone help me? heres a replay, i play only this build so far: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Rax_FE_into_3_Rax_Stim and here is a usual shit i loose to: http://www.file-upload.net/download-4286181/Entombed-Valley-TvT-loose.SC2Replay.html really embarrassed of myself and dont know what to do. i know what counters what etc. and all that stuff cause i watch alot of starcraft but i cant win anyhow  | ||
what123
United States2 Posts
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On April 20 2012 05:07 what123 wrote: Hello, I have a question about TvT. Ok, so basically I know a standard marine tank build I learned from Drewbie's guide. I have a composition of tanks, marines, and medivacs. The problem is, my opponent will just make vikings, take air control, and beat me as he has farther vision for his tanks. I've tried just building vikings of my own and the game just turns into a viking war (like 14 minutes into the game). How do I go marine - tank - medivac while avoiding this ridiculous viking stuff? SCVs, thors, turrets, and ravens (PDD) can be used to help make up for a viking deficit if you still want to stay marine-tank at that point. Personal example: after holding off a little early agression on shakuras, I went over to their base and set up a contain, with some SCVs. Unit-wise we were fairly even but he developed an advantage in vikings while I got an edge in tanks. My contain was getting very fragile due to the viking defecit, but with SCVs, turrets and careful marine control I was able to slow his push enough while I got a thor and expanded behind the contain. Then the thor+scv repair was able to deny the vikings airspace while my economic advantage and caught up and vikings (and just had a big angry army). While vikings were still important, it never turned into a "viking war". As for ravens, PDDs can give you a nice edge in viking vs. viking. And there's fun uses for auto turrets in TvT. I just have a hard time justifying that gas and a starport to ravens. Might be worth playing around with though. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
On April 19 2012 13:32 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: How should one play pure bio in a TvZ? I really don't like to use tanks and I would really love it if someone could link me to a guide or something similar about playing pure bio vs zerg. I'm not sure what league you are, but I play a marine only TvZ (or mass marines) it focuses on heavy dropping, constant aggression and lots of expanding. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=268427 I've been using this build from bronze to gold and I love it, 3/3 marines with medivacs trade very well vs practically everything zerg has, as long as you dont throw them away to banelings they are good vs most things even roaches with medivac support (though early on I'd recommend some marauders off your TL'd raxs) Infestors pose a problem, but try to snipe his tech with your drops and prioritise this over his workers. I know a lot of people will disagree about this build and its effectiveness, but I really like it and found good success with it so far | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
I was wondering what you guys though about LastShadow's TvP which was on day9 #445. Basically I really love my TvP it's one of my strongest openers and my best matchups, I play 1rax FE into 3rax with a 2ghost timing attack with stim, cs and conc. But watching this it looks like a really strong style, a lot of people on day9s comments seem to be complaining about how good it is, does anyone play it and would recommend it? I guess it wouldn't hurt to have more than 1 style for TvP (I have 3 for TvT :x!) | ||
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Kamelixs
Sweden88 Posts
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