EPTit feels that every zerg plays with fast roaches...
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 125
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
it feels that every zerg plays with fast roaches... | ||
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BONE
United States176 Posts
On January 18 2012 17:13 TAAF wrote: Seems reasonable but I don't think you can transition out of this build really well without almost killing Zerg. But just going into a standard game looks clean to me =) Maybe go 3 rax+factory+2e-bay+reactor starport unless your micro is really good.... This is a build I use I normally add a factory and Tanks after my 1st drop. I use the tanks more to protect my base from counter pushes. What normally wins me the game is multiple drops in differnet bases. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:29 BONE wrote: This is a build I use I normally add a factory and Tanks after my 1st drop. I use the tanks more to protect my base from counter pushes. What normally wins me the game is multiple drops in differnet bases. yeah my experience so far is that a counter push of the zerg with just roaches is really hard to hold. I must do extreme damage or just kill him with my timing attack otherwise it's really hard. i like the transition with 4 rax+2 ebay and fast starport with mediVacs to be able to drop and defend against mutas. I also think that fast tanks are necessary because the counterattacks, you mentioned | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
If you're doing the build correctly, you add a second rax and 2 tech labs, so it should be holdable. Just stop making hellions and transfer to marine tank. Also backstab with the hellions you already have, the zerg will take damage and will have to make more units instead of drones. The tricky part of the build is taking a third and holding off mutas without stim. Infestors are quite bad against this build imo, but without stim you need to position very well to not let mutas kill you. You do, however, get a quick 2 tanks, so it transitions well to a 2 tank timing at 9:00 or so. Overall a good build, though. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:23 saaaa wrote: do you guys think that the 2 fac reactor hellion build is viable in TvZ on the ladder? it feels that every zerg plays with fast roaches... It's a metagame-reliant build, I don't think any top player would use this as a standard opening. It abuses current styles of certain top players and works best in series play. For whatever it's worth, at least, I wouldn't recommend it for your own practice and self-improvement. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:54 upperbound wrote: Response to Roach push is an immediate bunker and 2 marauders. Presumably you will have walled off somewhat. Roaches are slow, so you can take advantage. If you're doing the build correctly, you add a second rax and 2 tech labs, so it should be holdable. Just stop making hellions and transfer to marine tank. Also backstab with the hellions you already have, the zerg will take damage and will have to make more units instead of drones. The tricky part of the build is taking a third and holding off mutas without stim. Infestors are quite bad against this build imo, but without stim you need to position very well to not let mutas kill you. You do, however, get a quick 2 tanks, so it transitions well to a 2 tank timing at 9:00 or so. Overall a good build, though. i already get stim for my maradaur+hellion push...i push with my units when stim finished... but i did this build just a few times and don't have many experience with it.. but i like this build because you are really save against every early shit of the zerg.. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On January 18 2012 23:36 Celestia wrote: So, I'm having trouble with my building placement, it's always a mess. Is there any images out there of the optimal building placement against Zerg, Terran and Protoss? There's no such thing as an "optimal" placement. Optimal is whatever makes it easiest for you to manage and defend all parts of your base. Key points: - production buildings in a neat formation relatively close together with small pathways (1 square wide for bio, 2 for tanks/thors). - a few supplies (or turrets later on) spread around the edges of your base - remaining supplies forming walls in useful choke points or in an out-of-the-way clump in your main or natural - upgrade buildings towards the center (or back, depending on the map) of your base in a position that is difficult to pick off Play some single player games and macro up trying to make your building placement as neat as possible, then it will be much easier for you to do instinctively in game. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On January 18 2012 07:18 Techno wrote: Anyone else find warp prism all ins (4 gate, DT) really hard to hold as terran? What sort of opening are you using? e: read what build you're using. IMO any FE build but gasless especially on big maps is completely pointless and puts you behind vs a protoss that opens 20 nexus simply because of the fact that you spend quite a bit of money: - constructing the refinery, including the mining time lost during construction - mining gas with multiple SCVs - delaying your expo further by spending money on a reactor so I pretty much would always suggest gasless, 18cc after 2nd marine, add two rax on ~23 supply, add two gas on ~25. You can get a bunker at any point here - if he goes zealot + chrono stalker rally, you may want to get it before your gas. On a smaller map / map with no natural ramp you may want to just always bunker to prevent stalker harass, but on Shakuras for example where you see 90% of protoss 1gate FE and the distance is long enough that you have 5 marines before zealot stalker gets to your base, I often skip a bunker until later on (7-8min). You should get 25 gas for tech lab right when either a marine finishes or your two rax finish - the important part is to start that techlab right away, then stim right after it + marauder production. Then with your next gas add tech/reactor, afterward you can go for concussive + ebay/+1 OR a quick factory. If you both opened 1gate/1rax FE builds, scan the protoss main around 8 min to determine his infrastructure/followup. WP 4gate is tough if you don't see it coming. I almost always spread all supplies after my first around the edges of my base. If you're opening gasless FE (the real go-to build vs P at least at master+ level) and add 2-3 rax right after expo and pull 10 scvs to fight the battle, you should actually completely roll over the initial wave of 8 units. Amove with your SCVs and kite forward with your marines, and if he doesn't run the prism as you move your marines forward, target it if you're sure you can kill it. similar with a factory/banshee/1/1/1 opening except you'll have less marines and it will be slightly harder, but you'll have a banshee out to assist in battle./ if you opened with 2+ rax you should have zero trouble crushing this completely, as long as you pull back reasonably in time from pressuring. if you don't see a protoss expo by 6 minutes, you should be playing defensively, and preparing for DT if he's on two gas. | ||
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Hero1
135 Posts
 Here's a game of mine playing 1rax inbase FE where he 4gate wp me and I've scouted it in time. I've put all my remaining rines at the edge (bunker at the front was probably a waste, should have put it near my CC?!) but he flew around into my minerals. Once we are at this point, I'm really not sure what to do. Should I attack the prism in which case the zealots roll over my couple of units but if I attack his units, he'll just warpin cycle after cycle and at some point I'll die. http://drop.sc/94500 | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On January 18 2012 06:00 Br3ezy wrote: maybe open different on smaller maps like shattered temple close air positions or something and leave the 1 rax cc to tal darim and antiga sized maps! Nah, that's fine. I don't see any reason to avoid 1rax FE on any modern map except (also outdated, really) xelnaga caverns. If you like to get tanks fast, I'd recommend perhaps a reactor (barracks) FE and add a factory shortly after your expansion. Alternatively, go gasless cc -> double gas -> 2nd rax -> factory. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:30 Hero1 wrote: I'm not that experienced in holding off all this toss cheese Here's a game of mine playing 1rax inbase FE where he 4gate wp me and I've scouted it in time. I've put all my remaining rines at the edge (bunker at the front was probably a waste, should have put it near my CC?!) but he flew around into my minerals. Once we are at this point, I'm really not sure what to do. Should I attack the prism in which case the zealots roll over my couple of units but if I attack his units, he'll just warpin cycle after cycle and at some point I'll die. http://drop.sc/94500 Check out my post above yours - the key to beating 4gate WP is to pull scvs, surround his army and use marine DPS to quickly take down the first wave of units / WP. You can't afford to let him keep warping in and trading if you lose SCVs - you have to crush him in the first engagement. | ||
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Celestia
Mexico376 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:12 Pokebunny wrote: There's no such thing as an "optimal" placement. Optimal is whatever makes it easiest for you to manage and defend all parts of your base. Key points: - production buildings in a neat formation relatively close together with small pathways (1 square wide for bio, 2 for tanks/thors). - a few supplies (or turrets later on) spread around the edges of your base - remaining supplies forming walls in useful choke points or in an out-of-the-way clump in your main or natural - upgrade buildings towards the center (or back, depending on the map) of your base in a position that is difficult to pick off Play some single player games and macro up trying to make your building placement as neat as possible, then it will be much easier for you to do instinctively in game. Well, I guess overtime it would be better, the thing is right now I don't even think where to place them because I'm trying to do everything as fast as possible, it's hard to be a newb T_T. | ||
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:23 saaaa wrote: do you guys think that the 2 fac reactor hellion build is viable in TvZ on the ladder? it feels that every zerg plays with fast roaches... I've used it plenty vs roaches, if they push out you kill their drones, if they don't push out you reap the benefits of the expansion you were smart enough to make before before you started pumping 4x hellions at the time. Transitions well ito mech, I like to get a banshee or two to take care of roaches wandering towards my base, and a few thors to stop the potential muta threat. In short; I think its a viable build. | ||
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TuElite
Canada2123 Posts
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On January 19 2012 07:20 kyllinghest wrote: I've used it plenty vs roaches, if they push out you kill their drones, if they don't push out you reap the benefits of the expansion you were smart enough to make before before you started pumping 4x hellions at the time. Transitions well ito mech, I like to get a banshee or two to take care of roaches wandering towards my base, and a few thors to stop the potential muta threat. In short; I think its a viable build. for what league is it viable? you can tranisition into a thor+bf hellion build or the the naked Tank+Marine without MediVac build which mvp did a lot.. can you maybe upload replays? | ||
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RaE21
United States260 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
I have been searching but found a good updated one...anyone know a good 11/11 or 11/12 rax bunker rush? To pressure while expanding that is EDIT: And is bunker rush only good vs Z or P too? Zealots are strong... | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On January 19 2012 14:42 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote: I am confused...normally when T 11/11 bunker rush, do they proxy the barracks? And is this only going to be successful if the enemy gets a 2nd base quickly? Surely 11/11 bunker rush cannot do damage if the enemy does not expand, since he will have too many units? I have been searching but found a good updated one...anyone know a good 11/11 or 11/12 rax bunker rush? To pressure while expanding that is EDIT: And is bunker rush only good vs Z or P too? Zealots are strong... Sometimes 11/11 is proxied, other times it isn't. Depends on the build. 11/11 is quite strong and can do damage even when the opponent is 1 basing, although it's mostly used against zergs (especially since hatch first is the zerg build of choice about 90% of the time in ZvT), and terrans who gasless expand. It's more effective in a series against an opponent with a certain playstyle than on ladder. With an 11/11, you probably don't want to expand until you've done economic damage. 11/11 will put you quite a bit behind on SCV's if you don't hit hard with it, and trying to play a macro game without committing somewhat to constant marine production and at least attempting a couple of bunkers Bunker rush basically goes hand-in-hand with every 11/11, but it can also be used with a 2 rax, reapers, or anything else against a greedy opponent's build. It can work against 15 hatch (although not very well if the zerg knows how to react and scouts the bunker), 15 nexus, 17 nexus 1 gate fe, and basically isn't used against terran. | ||
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
On January 19 2012 01:23 saaaa wrote: do you guys think that the 2 fac reactor hellion build is viable in TvZ on the ladder? it feels that every zerg plays with fast roaches... Just get a tech lab on your barracks for either siege tanks or marauders and you should be able to hold anything Z throws at you roach wise | ||
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
On January 19 2012 07:33 RaE21 wrote: high master terran and had a quick question on an odd TvP build that I run into on and off. 1 base warp prism colossus harass into expand into god knows what. Usually I do a 1 or 2 rax FE, and for some reason can't for the life of me figure out how to effectively deal with this, its rather embarassing >< With my current builds it hits before vikings can come and scare away the warp prism, and if I move out theres always potential for a counter attack. Perhaps......turret ring spam?! Okay, what you're doing wrong is not 1-1-1ing every game User was warned for this post | ||
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